Beyond TMNT-FF.. no season 6 ?!

[iris]

Originally Posted by Rat King

What do you think Peter Laird will do with this "expert" advice? He doesn't have any say over when the show airs or even if it airs. His hands are as tied as ours. If the toys don't sell or the ratings don't improve, the show will be gone.

You do talk to him. You tell him the fans are behind him, and they want more, and they're willing to do something about it.

Or, I mean, are you willing to do something about it? Because it's either that or say, 'it's been a great run while it lasted,' and let the show die.

[Sakirules]

I been saying this for a while. Once the movies comes out, the straight to DVD 13 part series of ninja tribune, and the FF season it looks to me that they'll call it a wrap

[Ecto Jedi]

Originally Posted by Sakirules

I been saying this for a while. Once the movies comes out, the straight to DVD 13 part series of ninja tribune, and the FF season it looks to me that they'll call it a wrap

In any event, this show has been better than most people would say it had any right to be, and we should at least be greatful that we've been previleged enough to experience a new Saturday morning TMNT cartoon that has treated the characters with respect and has drawn so much influence from the original comics.

It's sad that the show might be coming to an end after FF, but at least we can find solace in the fact that we've all been able to enjoy six great seasons of Turtles all these years after the original show went off the air. Most franchises don't get such a remarkable second chance.

[Aztec General]

Originally Posted by Ecto Jedi

In any event, this show has been better than most people would say it had any right to be, and we should at least be greatful that we've been previleged enough to experience a new Saturday morning TMNT cartoon that has treated the characters with respect and has drawn so much influence from the original comics.

It's sad that the show might be coming to an end after FF, but at least we can find solace in the fact that we've all been able to enjoy six great seasons of Turtles all these years after the original show went off the air. Most franchises don't get such a remarkable second chance.

In the long run I agree with you. I still think that FF will be a disaster, but 6 seasons of TMNT, which were predominantly based off of the comics is pretty darn good. I just hope we get more Rat King before the end.

Also we should remember two things: 1) if the movie does well the show will continue (or a new one will start) and 2) we still have 2 ongoing Mirage comics (3 for the next few months). So all is not lost!

[shuriken]

For the most part i think the show's been doing pretty well. But I think the time slot should defenitely be closer to Sigma 6 and the returning Ultamite Muscle like at 9:30 or something. Not in between Winx, Sonic or what the hell's that other crap, Bratz. Because correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of little kids like 6-12 year olds(especially boys) still like TMNT as well as Sigma 6 and Ultimate Muscle and the canceled Shaman King.Wouldn't it be a better slot with those shows not with Sonic or *sigh*Bratz. I doubt that they would watch Winx just to see TMNT. Well at least that's my opinion.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Teen Titans was cancelled because the show was reran to death, the same with JLU, that would make anyone switch channels

I have to say your wrong there. JLU was canceled because CN nevered cared about the show. They did nothing to market the toys, there was little promotion for it, they never put out DVDs, the kept pre-empting it repediatley in favor of anime, and they never aired reruns. The left it in that 10:30 slot to die.

Or, I mean, are you willing to do something about it? Because it's either that or say, 'it's been a great run while it lasted,' and let the show die.

Exactly.

I'm sick of this. Batman, Superman, Spider-man, they get all the best merchindise, theyre toys are tight, people read their comics, and they're taken seriously as superheroes.

Us TMNT fans constantly get the scraps. The toys are poorly handled, the video games are half-assed, we still haven't got good DVD's, and now were in danger of losing are show because 4Kids is run by morons who can't market to the right damn audience.

Why are putting up with this, it's not fair. the Turtles are just as good of heroes and Spidey, Hulk, and Bats(who isn't even a superhero btw), yet people only see TMNT as the goofy cartoon show from the 80's and nothing more.

I don't know what I'll do, but I'm gonna try to do anything I can to change this.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Once again I fail to see what's wrong with the current toys? The old toys were a lot "cheaper" in design IMO. And TMNT is finally getting some collectables like those statues. However as serious comic icons the turtles are getting the shaft for sure. Even though there are kids shows based on them, people don't consider Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, X-Men and what not as "kids stuff". Only the Mirage comic line and I guess the Image comic line showed that TMNT had a backbone. This is probably because the TMNT people remember are the goofy cartoons and the Archie comics. Certainly the original video games (which were great).

Though on the topic of video games... I can't say I've played many good comic based VG's lately. TMNT 3: Mutant Nightmare is actually one of the best I've played in a long time. Most franchise games are mediocre so it's not just TMNT that gets it bad there.

TMNT was doomed to be a kids only franchise when 4kids picked up the rights. Despite this Laird and the crew at 4kids and Mirage managed to put out a serious TMNT action series with a good mix of action, drama and comedy making it worthy of the likes of the DCAU in the animation universe. But CN cans it for bad ratings and 4kids tweaks it for the same reasons. Truely the turtles can't catch a break. And expecting 4kids to aim something older viewers that aren't kids is silly. They're "4KIDS" afterall. You're in the boat of every anime fan that had a show dubbed by 4kids. Myself being a One Piece fan. It's got to be some kind of cruel irony that my two favorite franchises ended up in the hands of the company I hate the most.

JLU ended because the ratings with 6-11 were cut in half. Despite little promotion the toys did sell qutie well and in January 2005 JLU was getting over 1,000,000 6-11 viewers. It dropped to 500,000 by summer and by then CN stopped promoting it. So don't say CN never cared about JLU. They cared a great deal for over a year. But I will say they shouldn't have canned it yet. There was much potential left and it was the best show they were airing at a decent time. What's wrong with 10:30PM anyway? It was the most mature thing on Toonami, so it made perfect sense to air it last and right before Adult Swim.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup

Once again I fail to see what's wrong with the current toys? The old toys were a lot "cheaper" in design IMO. And TMNT is finally getting some collectables like those statues.

really then we most be looking at 2 differnt toy lines because the old tmnt line for 1 all of the toys stuck to the same size characters...if your going to try and do things in scale do them...don't do it half assed....and these old school mirage statues your talking about...the sculpting on them is just as good if not exactly the same as the old toy lines sculpting and detail. I hate Anime toys they are flat and boring I just find it sad that toys from the 80's & 90's had more care and detail put into them than todays stuff. I'm prolly gonna get bashed for this but I wish American toy companies would just stick with what worked and stoped trying to be like other countrys toys.
I mean seriously Playmates Logo hasn't changed one bit so why should the figures they obviously know if there isn't something wrong don't fix it.
But of course I could be placing the blame on the wrong people it could be 4kids making them make these horrid action feature based line...

Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup

However as serious comic icons the turtles are getting the shaft for sure. Even though there are kids shows based on them, people don't consider Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, X-Men and what not as "kids stuff". Only the Mirage comic line and I guess the Image comic line showed that TMNT had a backbone. This is probably because the TMNT people remember are the goofy cartoons and the Archie comics. Certainly the original video games (which were great)..

that they are...but let's not forget who had made the Turtle all kiddy in the first place it was Fox...I'd say where else could Peter have taken the guys again though cause honestly there isn't much else to go to...Cartoon Network is hardly even anything I seriously hate Anime now because of them and 4kids when you flood the markets with something leaving no room for anything else especially shows from the states good shows that they themselves made people start to get ticked and lose allot of intrest.....
And Let me just say to you as a huge fan of The Archie Comics more so than just about anything besides Mirage..that book may have not had blood but it sure was anything but childish..it touched on death, war, toxic waste, love, people giving their lives for others, huge battles, and allot of other really great things. So to call that series goofy is hardly deserving.
But I will agree and once again say that the video game world is also trying to hard they should just stick with the simple formulas that made the games so much fun I don't care if I can see all around me and what not I just want to fight as my favorite turtle and kick the crap out of some crazy mutants, robots, and ninjas!

Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup

TMNT was doomed to be a kids only franchise when 4kids picked up the rights. Despite this Laird and the crew at 4kids and Mirage managed to put out a serious TMNT action series with a good mix of action, drama and comedy making it worthy of the likes of the DCAU in the animation universe. But CN cans it for bad ratings and 4kids tweaks it for the same reasons. Truely the turtles can't catch a break. And expecting 4kids to aim something older viewers that aren't kids is silly. They're "4KIDS" afterall. You're in the boat of every anime fan that had a show dubbed by 4kids. Myself being a One Piece fan. It's got to be some kind of cruel irony that my two favorite franchises ended up in the hands of the company I hate the most.

I have to agree Peter and everyone should learn a big leason from all of this I mean honestly it doesn't seem like they learned to much of a leason from the last time Fox screwed the TMNT over. Oh well if this show doesn't last I can say I know they will come back some day and even stronger than ever cause I think the next time they come around they won't focus it towards kids...but who knows with this new movie on the way that could allready be changing..hell Peter could take the path of making 2 shows...one for kids and one for adults.

[Sakirules]

Originally Posted by Ecto Jedi

It's sad that the show might be coming to an end after FF, but at least we can find solace in the fact that we've all been able to enjoy six great seasons of Turtles all these years after the original show went off the air. Most franchises don't get such a remarkable second chance.

I think you mean 4 and soon to be 5 great seasons. But I do agree wit ya

[MasterMole]

The show should've never been on 4Kids, at least season 4. It should've been on Toonami all along, or just a daily prime time slot. It sure is frustrating the way Playmates and 4Kids advertise it in such a childish and goofy way. Instead it needs to be advertised like X-men, in a more tough and cool way that seems appealing to all ages. Do you know what I mean?

[Ecto Jedi]

Originally Posted by Sakirules

I think you mean 4 and soon to be 5 great seasons. But I do agree wit ya

I stand corrected.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by MasterMole

The show should've never been on 4Kids, at least season 4. It should've been on Toonami all along, or just a daily prime time slot. It sure is frustrating the way Playmates and 4Kids advertise it in such a childish and goofy way. Instead it needs to be advertised like X-men, in a more tough and cool way that seems appealing to all ages. Do you know what I mean?

That's the thing, Toonami isn't a good place either. Granted they'd be marketed to the right fan base, but it also would have been cancelled after 52 or so episodes. What action/superhero based show that has been on cartoon network made it to 100. Only one, JLU, and it did ony if you count that with Justice League.

Bottom line, theres no place safe for any good cartoons now like TMNT.

I have to agree Peter and everyone should learn a big leason from all of this I mean honestly it doesn't seem like they learned to much of a leason from the last time Fox screwed the TMNT over. Oh well if this show doesn't last I can say I know they will come back some day and even stronger than ever cause I think the next time they come around they won't focus it towards kids...but who knows with this new movie on the way that could allready be changing..hell Peter could take the path of making 2 shows...one for kids and one for adults.

I would just prefer one for adults. I'd rather they say "screw the kids this time, let's do one for the grown ups".

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

I would just prefer one for adults. I'd rather they say "screw the kids this time, let's do one for the grown ups".

I'd say that also but let's be honest they are out to make money...and can you blame them I don't not one bit. Sure you could go the adult way but Adults aren't going to buy tuns of tmnt things...just a few of us obsessed fans and those who remember the turtles from their childhoods.
I'm all for an adult based tmnt I'm hoping we get that with this new cgi *vomits* movie.

[Ninja Tiptup]

FTR I didn't mean to say the Archie comics were goofy. But I can see how you may have interpreted that. The Archie comics could get pretty dark or so I hear.

Few American cartoons last more than 52-65 episodes. JLU being an extention is an interesting exception but even a fantastic seriesl like the downright legendary Batman: TAS wasn't incredibly long. I'm not sure if it cracked 100.

You have to give 4kids credit for puting out 26 episodes a season since most series only get 13 a season including the previous king of kids action ratings Teen Titans. If TMNT was only 13 a season we'd only be up to 52 by now.

The American cartoon market has gone to crap with a few exceptions. There's still quality out there but it's hard to find. Some shows get lucky and last longer than you'd expect and others aren't so lucky and end before their time. But I'd say it's unrealistic to expect a lot of American toons to make it into the 100's. The main reason why Japanese shows pull that off is most are based on pre-existing material and they added in filler on top of that. That's why shows like Dragonball Z, Inuyasha, Naruto and One Piece are rediculously long. New TMNT also borrows stories from the comics (as have many other comic based series). Pokemon actually isn't based off of a manga and that brings me to the other reason why Japanese shows last longer on Japanese airwaves... popularity of the franchise and mass marketing of the merchandise. I would have thought Pokemon would have died out by now but it's still going. In America Power Rangers has lasted over a decade with no signs of stopping despite numerous changes of locale.

The US market is very fickle and the most common place to find cartoons is Saturday mornings (or at least it was) and cable has stolen a lot of those block's thunder for one thing and kids are finding other things to do than watch cartoons. Yet somehow Nick gets amazing kids ratings perhaps by name alone. Cartoon Network needs to get a clue and stop trying to be another Nick because they had better overall ratings when they were just an animation channel not a kid focused channel per say. Adult Swim started this parting of interests it seems.

For a premiere slot, it's hard to do much better than Toonami. CN is widely shown and Toonami promotes their shows quite well. As long as 4kids was still calling the shots I don't think TMNT would have been less episodes than it is now even if it started on Toonami. 4kids pushes out content to sell toys. As long as they toys sold they'd put out just as much or more TMNT episodes each season. Jetix seems like a good home for TMNT reruns. With over 100 episodes is NEEDS a prime time daily slot and Jetix could give it that no problem. CN doesn't want to sacrifice valuable prime time space on aquisitions unless they are HUGE draws for the network. Most shows can't keep a slot long in prime time these days unless they're an original that has a lot of other slots as well. Currently CN is doing one import justice, and that's Naruto. All aquisitions are in the same bag though. If they aren't on Toonami or Miguzi then they'll get really bad slots instead. I will say until the day I'm dead and burried that CN should have tried TMNT in prime time at least once but CN is stubborn and give up on good shows too quickly. Especially ones they have little to gain from and as an aquisition, all they can get from TMNT is ratings (ratings which apparently weren't good enough).

As for the new toys... I would say they are well detailed at least in relation to the show style. The old TMNT Playmates toys were obviously comic based and had little to no resemblance to the cartoon. Which was fine in it's own way but I like that the new TMNT toys fit with new show's style well.

There's only 1 time FOX truely screwed over TMNT. That was the Next Mutation. Before it was just a syndicated show that aired on FOX in some areas (mine as well) and then CBS picked it up and censored in the 90s. FOX has no ties to The Fox Box either as it's now 4kidsTV anyway. 4kids bought the time from FOX. All FOX could ever do is pre-empt it (and they did plenty) they had no control over what aired on it besides the usual S&P business which requires them to check the content of the cartoons airing on the block.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

I'd say that also but let's be honest they are out to make money...and can you blame them I don't not one bit. Sure you could go the adult way but Adults aren't going to buy tuns of tmnt things...just a few of us obsessed fans and those who remember the turtles from their childhoods.
I'm all for an adult based tmnt I'm hoping we get that with this new cgi *vomits* movie.

I say they should market to the collectors. Theyr'e the ones that buy toys now, all kids care about are video games. That's why the new He-man line failed. They marked to kids instead of collectors who are over 13.

And to Ninja Tiptup; The new TMNT figures are sculpted good. But they lack any kind of proper articulation and scaling. That and theyr'e still migging alot of good characters.

And they still have those damn worthless action features. As for the games. The gameplay is repitative and dull, and require no real strategy, and thats a problem.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Scale issues? Honestly I've never noticed all that much. But I guess the turtles are bigger than they should be compared to the humans. Much less the big aliens which I suppose were also not the right size.

TMNT 3 takes a bit of effort at least by comparison to the others. You've got more useful combo's anyway and actually kids don't really buy them. I'm begining to think no one does these days.

Marketing to collectors is a great idea on paper and it's true that it's collectors buying a lot of TMNT merchadise but the marketability for the TMNT franchise with youth is still quite strong. They should have more collectors items but they should also have a youth product line because there is a lot of money to be made by marketing to both instead of just one. I'd say this for most of 4kids anime as well. Especially One Piece and Shaman King. The teen and adult market for their franchises is VERY strong but kids marketing makes the world go round so expecting any company to not market action shows to kids is pretty foolish.

I mean think about it. With all those collectibles out there you still see Spider-Man and Batman toys all over the shelves and that's not going to change. For similar reasons TMNT will continue to be marketed to youth. But they really should market it to oldies as well. At least some freak'n DVD box sets of the new show and more collectors items. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup

FTR I didn't mean to say the Archie comics were goofy. But I can see how you may have interpreted that. The Archie comics could get pretty dark or so I hear.

Few American cartoons last more than 52-65 episodes. JLU being an extention is an interesting exception but even a fantastic seriesl like the downright legendary Batman: TAS wasn't incredibly long. I'm not sure if it cracked 100.

Timm counts the NBA episodes as part of the series, so it did in that regard, but the original series did'nt

In America Power Rangers has lasted over a decade with no signs of stopping despite numerous changes of locale.

Precisly because of the changes in locale, keeping powers, characters, and events fresh without the same old guys resuming the status quoe after receiving new powers and going through the same problems.

[Spitfire]

Buy the Lost Season DVD, buy it for friends, tell people to buy it. Buy the damn thing. If they see that it sells well then maybe there's a chance for a DVD release show if it gets booted off the air. If they see a season of the show can do well on DVD without even being aired that could be a good sign for us.

Just an idea.

[raphaelprime]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Buy the Lost Season DVD, buy it for friends, tell people to buy it. Buy the damn thing. If they see that it sells well then maybe there's a chance for a DVD release show if it gets booted off the air. If they see a season of the show can do well on DVD without even being aired that could be a good sign for us.

Just an idea.

I could see that happening, which would be fine with. I'd just hate to see all these possible stories and ideas go to waste.

My proposal? hear me out....go to Disney and offer it as a ToonDisney cartoon. ToonDisney airs the old X-Men series, which the new TMNT reminds me of, and they have been showing it for at least 2 years now. Not to mention the time it had on Jetix 3 years ago for X2.

**EDIT**

PS, I'll see if i can get some info reguarding episodes in and not in production in 2 weeks. I'll ask Gus and Jason if theres anything they can tell me.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Buy the Lost Season DVD, buy it for friends, tell people to buy it. Buy the damn thing. If they see that it sells well then maybe there's a chance for a DVD release show if it gets booted off the air. If they see a season of the show can do well on DVD without even being aired that could be a good sign for us.

Just an idea.

And a damn good one.

My proposal? hear me out....go to Disney and offer it as a ToonDisney cartoon. ToonDisney airs the old X-Men series, which the new TMNT reminds me of, and they have been showing it for at least 2 years now. Not to mention the time it had on Jetix 3 years ago for X2

That's actually not a bad idea. Disney did bring us Gargoyles, and both the shows are similar.

But wouldn't it being on Disney further it's kiddy reputation?