Letter Campaign

[MasterMole]

I believe a main problem for 4Kids not continuing with Ninja Tribunal story and also for not airing Insane in Membrane is this: Those people who make up 4Kids just never got it thru their heads that this 2K3 series is totally seperated from the old show. Not only them, but Playmates too. My big question is this: Before this show premiered, Why was the channel-choice and scheduling of this show not more thought out. I mean, this show absolutely, positively without a doubt belonged on Toonami, or another definite primetime slot. Cartoon Network decided to air it on the lame and childish "Miguzi", and you know why? It's because both 4kids and C.N. see this show only for children, and not for what it trully is. Those TV networks, and Playmates, have continued to force this show to a childlike demographic that should not have been allowed. Peter Laird and the show's writers, Mirage, and whoever else played major roles in this show, should've Emphasized this exact point. They needed to sit down and have an in-depth discussion about how this show was to take form. If Peter Laird and the writers knew the show's direction, involving great continuety and deeper, maturer storylines, then why did this not get discussed further with 4Kids and Cartoon Network? They needed to emphasize that this new series is not the old show with pizza-loving, child-like turtles, with simple storylines. No, this new series is Totally Separate from that previous Incarnation. After this important discussion between the networks and Laird, then the decision could've been made as to which network would handle the show's schedule and direction. I'm sure if this kind of meeting(s) occurred, then TMNT would have premiered on Toomami on Friday or Saturday nights back in 2003. If the ratings stayed good, and C.N. was generous with the show, then we would now probably be watching the awesom "Ninja Tribunal" story as well as the rest of the "True Season 5". Toonami would've also aired "Insane in Membrane, as well as airing the episodes in prober order.

[wyze2099]

I think appealing to the execs in language they understand (demographics studies, for instance) would be the way to go. We've got to convince them that TMNT is a great property whose biggest problem is inefficient marketing.

For instance, the 2K3 series is one of the better interpretations of the TMNT I've ever seen, and its more recent seasons have been phenomenal, with the kind of storytelling usually reserved for primetime television. Not necessarily in terms of the violence or character death per se (though there is that as well), but in terms of the storylines continuing for multiple episodes and multiple seasons, with the action and character development actually having far-reaching consequences. So one thing I'd suggest is for TMNT to be marketed more as a prime-time animated series. It's not working in Saturday morning, obviously, because the show thinks differently than most Saturday Morning 'toons.

Ironically, when I lived in Dallas, TX when the '80s cartoon first premiered, the first five episodes were played on weekday afternoons, and then several episodes after that were shown in prime time at 7pm on Sundays. It was rare to actually see a cartoon in that time-slot (this being long before the Simpsons), and that show was weekday afternoon/Saturday morning fare. And the 2K3 show has been shown almost exclusively on Saturday mornings and weekday afternoons, yet the stories being told make more sense in a prime time format. I think the 2K3 series could flourish in prime time (probably on CN), where it could attract an older audience that would appreciate what's going on.

Another suggestion for the TMNT marketing image: give the show an opening theme that reflects the tone of the actual show. The 2K3 theme is bouncy and hyper, kind of like the famous '80s theme, but it only fit the mood of the series for maybe a handful of episodes in the first season, and sporadic episodes after that. The opening theme doesn't hint at the show's edgy nature, and it's probably a turnoff to people who might otherwise be the perfect target audience for the actual episodes. Put it this way: "Batman the Animated Series" had similar dark and complex themes, with a moody art style and plenty of action and violence that most cartoons couldn't get away with ... and it had opening theme music to reflect that. Imagine if "B:TAS" had an opening theme more in line with the campy '60s Adam West show; it would have been a bait-and-switch that would have turned off most of its intended audience. An opening theme should give the audience an idea of what to expect from the actual show.

Should the younger children be alienated? Absolutely not. But given that we're dealing with a different generation, it seems to me the older fans should be taken into account by the marketing. And heck, children who are interested in watching the show could still see it in prime time. But my point is, the show itself was not particularly broken; the marketing was. This show would be a goldmine to a demographic of older teens and adults ... once they're made aware that this version of the Turtles is for them.

[iris]

I agree, wyze2099. The problem is not the product. The problem is the packaging.

Originally Posted by MasterMole

My big question is this: Before this show premiered, Why was the channel-choice and scheduling of this show not more thought out. I mean, this show absolutely, positively without a doubt belonged on Toonami, or another definite primetime slot. Cartoon Network decided to air it on the lame and childish "Miguzi", and you know why? It's because both 4kids and C.N. see this show only for children, and not for what it trully is. Those TV networks, and Playmates, have continued to force this show to a childlike demographic that should not have been allowed. Peter Laird and the show's writers, Mirage, and whoever else played major roles in this show, should've Emphasized this exact point. They needed to sit down and have an in-depth discussion about how this show was to take form. If Peter Laird and the writers knew the show's direction, involving great continuety and deeper, maturer storylines, then why did this not get discussed further with 4Kids and Cartoon Network? They needed to emphasize that this new series is not the old show with pizza-loving, child-like turtles, with simple storylines.

MasterMole, we have no way of knowing what Mirage and 4Kids did or did not discuss. We at least know that Peter Laird is generally quite outspoken about his TMNT concept. But it's self-deceiving to bank on the premise that anyone who isn't deeply involved in the artistic development of TMNT 2K3 thinks of the turtles as anything but silly surf-speaking pizza-addicted amphibians. Whether they were told otherwise or not. You have have to realize that the 4Kids board of directors are mostly over 50 years old (some are pushing 60). They probably relate to TMNT as a thing they saw succeed among the young kids, and that maybe their grandkids might like, not as something anyone else could like. That's the main way that TMNT isn't like Batman or any of the 'classic' comics that so many generations have known since childhood. I would like to think that some of the board members saw and liked the 2K3 series (it did make it 4 years after all), but that's probably wishful thinking.

TMNT's success in the past is a double-edged sword. It's made it a more difficult sell today because many of the people with the money know of that "stereotyped" joke version of the turtles, even if they've never even seen the show or movies. I wouldn't be shocked if they had pitched it to CN/NBC and it was passed over. But on the other side, the past success means there's a boatload of older fans out there, just waiting for some TMNT righteousness to come their way.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Dear 4Kids TV,
Stop being assholes, your program sucks and makes TV all the more unbearable to watch. The only ray of sunshine in your craphole of programming was TMNT. And you have now just buried it in this craphole. Why you have done this is beyond me. The show didn't have good enough ratings, poor merch sales? Whatever your excuse is it was not nessciary. You turned the show inside out and now it just looks like every other generic peice of garbage you show.
Good job now TMNT is on par with Winx Club and GI Joe. Thanks a lot.

thanks spitfire this is a great example of what not to write to 4kids and fox!

Originally Posted by iris

Dude, I would so wear TMNT shirts if there were any appropriate for me.

I have a tmnt shirt for every day of the week recently got some new ones at the san diego comicon designed by Peter Liard I love them! Also lastnight at the club the dj was wearing an orignal mirage fan club tmnt shirt..he said he's had it forever and I inspired him to wear it! woo go turtles hehe

[AquaParade]

Any updates on this?

[Katie]

I'm doing my background work...I want a full blown nice and articulate study to send. Keep giving me ideas...this is helping alot

[Ecto Jedi]

Originally Posted by wyze2099

Ironically, when I lived in Dallas, TX when the '80s cartoon first premiered, the first five episodes were played on weekday afternoons, and then several episodes after that were shown in prime time at 7pm on Sundays. It was rare to actually see a cartoon in that time-slot (this being long before the Simpsons), and that show was weekday afternoon/Saturday morning fare. And the 2K3 show has been shown almost exclusively on Saturday mornings and weekday afternoons, yet the stories being told make more sense in a prime time format. I think the 2K3 series could flourish in prime time (probably on CN), where it could attract an older audience that would appreciate what's going on.

Well said, 'bro. Watching my TMNT DVDs at night is a totally different experience from watching the episodes during Saturday mornings. But now that Fast Forward has taken over, I don't know how that would play out. (Probably very badly, to be honest with you.)

[jeff the cheff]

4kids probably wants to attract almost the same demographic for all of their shows on 4kids. Their best viewers are the ones that stay through the entire lineup on saturday morning and watch the same commercials over and over again until they just need to beg their mom for the product(I have no idea how anyone could sit through the whole block). I think the only good way to get the older audience to watch would be to show TMNT on a different station at a different time, or release them straight to dvd. If they did release them straight to dvd, the only people that would buy them are people like us who were already fans of the show, and that wouldnt make enough profit.

[iris]

Originally Posted by jeff the cheff

4kids probably wants to attract almost the same demographic for all of their shows on 4kids. Their best viewers are the ones that stay through the entire lineup on saturday morning and watch the same commercials over and over again until they just need to beg their mom for the product(I have no idea how anyone could sit through the whole block). I think the only good way to get the older audience to watch would be to show TMNT on a different station at a different time, or release them straight to dvd. If they did release them straight to dvd, the only people that would buy them are people like us who were already fans of the show, and that wouldnt make enough profit.

That would be a good use of resources, if any other station is interested in running TMNT.

Anyone know anything about the finer points of syndication?

[Inner City Blues]

I'll just won't watch Fast Forward, I have no issue ignoring the series, I have no problem with the old series ending with the Ninja Tribunal storyline. It would be nice to get more episodes of the 2003 show, but I will be satisfied ending at season 5. I actually predicted the show would only be five seasons, mostly because animated series don't get that much support past four years. The fact that we've had four 26-episode seasons is no simple feat so I can accept a 13-episode ending.