Please help me understand a few things (Mirage Series) - Page 2

Aztec General · 02-01-2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsenal

Fascinating...

You know, as much as I love the toys, the games, the movies, the cartoon, and the characters in general, I really hate just about everything I read about these damn comics. The more I hear about them, the more I wish I could hire an editor to make sense out of them. It just makes no sense that characters like the Turtles have been wallowing in this moody, oddly paced indie comic nightmare for decades now. They are characters that have and can be used in so many variety of ways... and this mopey set of events is what's considered the "real story?"

I really hope the Fox show makes a much more fun, better paced version of this universe.

So what you are saying is that you prefer a bunch of fast paced fun action sequences as opposed to a deep, evolving, character developing story with dramatic action when needed? Ummmm... I'm awfully glad that you were not hired as the "editor to make some sense out of them". I'd rather watch Lord of the Rings over XXX anyday.

I'm guessing that you prefer more mainstream comics as opposed to indie comics. I love action as much as anyone, but I feel that action is pointless unless the characters are interesting, changing, and the story is fluid. This is a main difference between many mainstream and independent comics. Just look at what happened when the Turtles went from Mirage to Image. Larsen tryed to make them into an action/superhero team of the future and it failed miserably. One of the reasons it failed (there were many) was because it did not stay true to the characters, story, tone, or themes of the Mirage series.

Now that doesn't mean that the new cartoon series will be very moody or dark, but it is supposed to have those elements incorporated in it. As I've said before the new series will probably match the mood and tone of the first TMNT movie (which was heavily based off the Mirage comics) and IMHO that is a great thing.

Donatello02 · 02-01-2003, 08:06 PM

I thought the Image turtles were kinda cool. Seeing Raphael wearing Shredder's uniform is just cool. Oh and, CYBER-DON! C'mon, who wouldn 't wanna read that?

Aztec General · 02-01-2003, 08:46 PM

I liked the Raph scar/Shredder thing as well. It did fit his character. I think they could have came up with a more creative or meaningful way to scar him though. But as a whole I think the series was a failure. It failed to realize really any of the characters and was apparently hell bent on mutilation. I do respect Larsen for trying to mainstream the TMNT comic a bit, but I just don't think it worked.

**Karpo_007** · 02-02-2003, 07:16 AM

Apparently it didn't sell good enough either. Luckily the volume 4 seems to be doing fine.

Mondo_Gecko · 02-03-2003, 04:52 PM

Karpo people don't think of the Turtles as kiddie or Pokemon of the 80s. Everyone i know whos my age or wastched the cartoon loves it to no end. All my friends and I still have the toys and reminise about the episodes all the time. I remember when i first got an episode of the internet and I was so so EXCITED that day. It was like i was 8 again. Then I told my friends and they got almost as excited as i did coming over here to watch the episodes again and loving them every bit as much as did when they were little.

Donatello02 · 02-03-2003, 04:55 PM

Ahhh classic. I was watching the original turtle movie with my friend a couple of nights ago. He was just all smiles man. It brought back a lot. That's the the type of stuff that'll never lose it's appeal.

**Karpo_007** · 02-03-2003, 05:29 PM

It WAS the pokemon of the 80's. Endless ammounts of toys and other merchandise. Just like pokemon today.

darthsmozers · 02-03-2003, 05:56 PM

Actually, Pokemon is on the boat leaving popularity island

xZAOx · 02-03-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

It WAS the pokemon of the 80's. Endless ammounts of toys and other merchandise. Just like pokemon today.

yeah, but nowhere near as annoying or lame =)

**Karpo_007** · 02-03-2003, 06:06 PM

Well I don't think that kids today think that it's lame.

xZAOx · 02-03-2003, 06:31 PM

my little brother didnt either back when he was 7 or whatever. i always gave him crap about them being gay =) (oh the fun of being the big brother). he finally listened to me, and now no longer likes them, and denies ever liking them, even tho he had all the figures and clothes, etc etc.

**Karpo_007** · 02-03-2003, 06:34 PM

The 2 phenomena are pretty close. Both were a crazy for few years. Pokemon is losing poluarity, and after 10 years most people won't remember it. Same happened with the TMNT cartoon.

darthsmozers · 02-03-2003, 06:54 PM

same thing happens with most.

**Karpo_007** · 02-03-2003, 06:56 PM

True.

Arsenal · 02-03-2003, 07:38 PM

That's bull. The Turtles toon not only had a much longer half-life than Pokemon, but had a series of genuinely successful films, one of the longest running toylines this side of Star Wars or Barbie, but an entire generation still has warm feelings for the show.

Anyway, back to your nonsense. I'm not really here. Just in a ball-busting mood.

darthsmozers · 02-03-2003, 07:51 PM

Arsenal,
Please watch your mouth.
Also, remember the 70's-80's saw longer running cartoons? As animation became more mainstream and audiences grew, and the tools became easier (computer editing, etc.), plus the picking-up of more networks (cartoon network, disney channel, etc.), MORE cartoons abound, with shorter lives as competition grows. although, some ran longer than others....

So, please watch your language, and don't judge before you think in a historical sense. it has more to do with time period and less to do with which show it was.

And, we werent talking about just the span anyways, we were also talking about everything that comes with a popular kids show.

Arsenal · 02-03-2003, 08:02 PM

Hey look, I forgot about that post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

So what you are saying is that you prefer a bunch of fast paced fun action sequences as opposed to a deep, evolving, character developing story with dramatic action when needed? Ummmm... I'm awfully glad that you were not hired as the "editor to make some sense out of them". I'd rather watch Lord of the Rings over XXX anyday.

Heh. Did you just call LOTR deep, full of character development? Wow, that's amazingly dumb. I saw that lovingly, of course! You're probably also one of those charming youngsters who'd say that the Star Wars prequel trilogy has absolutely no depth. But I digress.

No, what I meant is that I will always see the Turtles as a much friendlier, Marx Brothers-ish group. They're almost like the Beatles from Hard Day's Night... but with weapons.

This applies to the Archies, the movies, and yes, the cartoon. In that sense, the moody, dark Turtles are alien to me. And that goes for a majority of Turtles fans.

Also, in the comics... everything I've heard about them suggests horrible continuity, bland storylines, and a lack of character development. Just my opinion of course. Just a preference, an observation. But you're free to shower me with indie cred condecension. (I know you will)

I'm guessing that you prefer more mainstream comics as opposed to indie comics.

How nice of you to ass-ume that because I don't like your favorite action-adventure young adult... indie comic.

[/b]I love action as much as anyone, but I feel that action is pointless unless the characters are interesting, changing, and the story is fluid. This is a main difference between many mainstream and independent comics. Just look at what happened when the Turtles went from Mirage to Image. Larsen tryed to make them into an action/superhero team of the future and it failed miserably. One of the reasons it failed (there were many) was because it did not stay true to the characters, story, tone, or themes of the Mirage series.[/b]

Your POV flawed because a.) Image is essentially an Indie label. Even if it was Marvel, it's not the label's fault that important elements were changed. B.) I'm sorry, but these stories have little more depth than a majority of mainstream comics. They're serialized action adventure comics, for **** sake. We're not talking about Art Spiegelman's Maus. They have their own flubs, just as Spider-man does.

Now that doesn't mean that the new cartoon series will be very moody or dark, but it is supposed to have those elements incorporated in it.

Yes, into a mainstream, network TV cartoon. So the indie perspective is pointless.

Arsenal · 02-03-2003, 08:10 PM

Arsenal,
watch your mouth.

ALSO, remember the 70's-80's saw longer running cartoons. As animation became more mainstream and audiences grew, and the tools became easier (computer editing, etc.), plus the picking-up of more networks (cartoon network, disney channel, etc.), MORE cartoons abound, with shorter lives as competition grows. So, watch your mouth, and don't judge before you think in a historical sense. it has more to do with time period and less to do with which show it was.

Even in "a historical sense," toons with the sheer popularity of the turtles rarely had that long of a run. There was very little "flash in the pan" about the franchise, which was my point. If I were just talking about the toon, comparing it to Pokemon wouldn't even be relevant because of Pokemon being an pre-released/completed import.

And, we werent talking about just the span anyways, we were talking about everything that comes with a popular kids show.

Yes, you were approaching the subject from the most cynical side of the Turtles phenomenon. How shocking from this bunch.

Mind you, "everything that comes from" it is exactly what I was talking about.

darthsmozers · 02-03-2003, 08:39 PM

oh give me a break..just do us a favor and dont come in here, foul talk, and leave. tastefully take part in the conversation please. thanks.

back to the topic at hand...

only a few days left!

oh, and can someone answer this:

does the Image series fit into Mirage continuity or no?

xZAOx · 02-03-2003, 08:47 PM

nope. been mentioned several times in several threads

*edit* ill rephrase - up until volume 4, yes it did. it picks up where vl. 2 left off for the most part. but when this new volume started up, laird just said 'screw what larsen did', and picked up 15 yrs after vol.2

02-01-2003, 08:06 PM	#22
Donatello02 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 503	I thought the Image turtles were kinda cool. Seeing Raphael wearing Shredder's uniform is just cool. Oh and, CYBER-DON! C'mon, who wouldn 't wanna read that? __________________ 'What ninja weapon did Don get? A stickball bat. Hey, you can call it a 'bo'. But you can call it a Ford Tempo too...it's still just a stick.'

02-01-2003, 08:46 PM	#23
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	I liked the Raph scar/Shredder thing as well. It did fit his character. I think they could have came up with a more creative or meaningful way to scar him though. But as a whole I think the series was a failure. It failed to realize really any of the characters and was apparently hell bent on mutilation. I do respect Larsen for trying to mainstream the TMNT comic a bit, but I just don't think it worked. __________________

02-03-2003, 04:55 PM	#26
Donatello02 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 503	Ahhh classic. I was watching the original turtle movie with my friend a couple of nights ago. He was just all smiles man. It brought back a lot. That's the the type of stuff that'll never lose it's appeal. __________________ 'What ninja weapon did Don get? A stickball bat. Hey, you can call it a 'bo'. But you can call it a Ford Tempo too...it's still just a stick.'

02-02-2003, 07:16 AM	#24
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Apparently it didn't sell good enough either. Luckily the volume 4 seems to be doing fine.

02-03-2003, 04:52 PM	#25
Mondo_Gecko Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 670	Karpo people don't think of the Turtles as kiddie or Pokemon of the 80s. Everyone i know whos my age or wastched the cartoon loves it to no end. All my friends and I still have the toys and reminise about the episodes all the time. I remember when i first got an episode of the internet and I was so so EXCITED that day. It was like i was 8 again. Then I told my friends and they got almost as excited as i did coming over here to watch the episodes again and loving them every bit as much as did when they were little.

02-03-2003, 05:29 PM	#27
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	It WAS the pokemon of the 80's. Endless ammounts of toys and other merchandise. Just like pokemon today.

02-03-2003, 05:56 PM	#28
darthsmozers Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,277	Actually, Pokemon is on the boat leaving popularity island

02-03-2003, 06:06 PM	#30
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Well I don't think that kids today think that it's lame.

02-03-2003, 06:31 PM	#31
xZAOx Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: TN Posts: 842	my little brother didnt either back when he was 7 or whatever. i always gave him crap about them being gay =) (oh the fun of being the big brother). he finally listened to me, and now no longer likes them, and denies ever liking them, even tho he had all the figures and clothes, etc etc.

02-03-2003, 06:34 PM	#32
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	The 2 phenomena are pretty close. Both were a crazy for few years. Pokemon is losing poluarity, and after 10 years most people won't remember it. Same happened with the TMNT cartoon.

02-03-2003, 06:54 PM	#33
darthsmozers Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,277	same thing happens with most.

02-03-2003, 06:56 PM	#34
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	True.

02-03-2003, 07:38 PM	#35
Arsenal Random Punk Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22	That's bull. The Turtles toon not only had a much longer half-life than Pokemon, but had a series of genuinely successful films, one of the longest running toylines this side of Star Wars or Barbie, but an entire generation still has warm feelings for the show. Anyway, back to your nonsense. I'm not really here. Just in a ball-busting mood.

02-03-2003, 07:51 PM	#36
darthsmozers Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,277	Arsenal, Please watch your mouth. Also, remember the 70's-80's saw longer running cartoons? As animation became more mainstream and audiences grew, and the tools became easier (computer editing, etc.), plus the picking-up of more networks (cartoon network, disney channel, etc.), MORE cartoons abound, with shorter lives as competition grows. although, some ran longer than others.... So, please watch your language, and don't judge before you think in a historical sense. it has more to do with time period and less to do with which show it was. And, we werent talking about just the span anyways, we were also talking about everything that comes with a popular kids show.

02-03-2003, 08:10 PM	#38
Arsenal Random Punk Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22	Arsenal, watch your mouth. ALSO, remember the 70's-80's saw longer running cartoons. As animation became more mainstream and audiences grew, and the tools became easier (computer editing, etc.), plus the picking-up of more networks (cartoon network, disney channel, etc.), MORE cartoons abound, with shorter lives as competition grows. So, watch your mouth, and don't judge before you think in a historical sense. it has more to do with time period and less to do with which show it was. Even in "a historical sense," toons with the sheer popularity of the turtles rarely had that long of a run. There was very little "flash in the pan" about the franchise, which was my point. If I were just talking about the toon, comparing it to Pokemon wouldn't even be relevant because of Pokemon being an pre-released/completed import. And, we werent talking about just the span anyways, we were talking about everything that comes with a popular kids show. Yes, you were approaching the subject from the most cynical side of the Turtles phenomenon. How shocking from this bunch. Mind you, "everything that comes from" it is exactly what I was talking about.

02-03-2003, 08:39 PM	#39
darthsmozers Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,277	oh give me a break..just do us a favor and dont come in here, foul talk, and leave. tastefully take part in the conversation please. thanks. back to the topic at hand... only a few days left! oh, and can someone answer this: does the Image series fit into Mirage continuity or no?

02-03-2003, 08:47 PM	#40
xZAOx Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: TN Posts: 842	nope. been mentioned several times in several threads edit ill rephrase - up until volume 4, yes it did. it picks up where vl. 2 left off for the most part. but when this new volume started up, laird just said 'screw what larsen did', and picked up 15 yrs after vol.2