Leonardo -

[jenna]

As there is now a thread for Raph and Don, I thought I would throw one for Leo into the mix.... Drumroll..............

My thoughts:

Leonardo, the eldest, the team’s leader, is strong, disciplined, a keen pupil of ninjitsu and a follower of Bushido. He is very ego driven, and simultaneously is the most likely to suffer a crisis in confidence. As the leader he is more likely to provide a halfway point between his brothers and their Sensei, Splinter, rather than to take full responsibility for the team. He often struggles to maintain his leadership role, as despite his wisdom and sensibility he is still only a teenager. On occasion he has been shown to let his rebellious side out, which consequentially results in anarchy and panic amongst his brothers. He is very close with Splinter, and also with his brother Raphael, with whom he is very competitive and despite their closeness, there is much conflict between them.

This conflict is largely due to the fact that Raphael is prone to challenge Leonardo’s leadership and decisions, and Leonardo constantly struggles to argue his corner and assert his authority over his volatile brother. Much of his learning curve is in gaining the confidence and authority to do this. Michelangelo and Donatello are more accepting of Leonardo’s role and do not put up the same fight as Raphael.

Leonardo is confident and calm in threatening situations and carries the responsibility as the eldest brother with honour.

The 1987 cartoon has Leonardo as a very competent leader who often shares the role with his brothers, particularly Donatello who, he recognises, has strengths and abilities above his own. Leonardo is very sensible and a noble apprentice to Splinter, and is often criticised by his brothers as being boring and equally often told that he needs to “lighten up”. Whenever he is absent, the remaining team falls apart and becomes directionless. Notable moments during this incarnation include a crisis in confidence he suffered with regards to his leadership skills in Series 3, which led him to leave his brothers to embark on a brief voyage of self-discovery, during which he came to the realisation that rather than working to improve himself, he was simply wallowing in self-pity and was leaving his brothers without a leader whilst he was indulging his own self-absorption. This self-awareness is something that Leonardo often exhibits, and he is frequent to acknowledge his failings and to better himself as a result.

The 2003 cartoon exposes Leonardo’s weaknesses as well as proclaiming him the team’s hero. Whilst he is obviously more skilled in ninjitsu than any of his brothers, he is prone to arrogance and is a popular choice for narratives dedicated to his own emotional journey as he learns to be more humble and to recognise his limitations. He is shown to bear the burden of responsibility and provides the voice of reason when his three brothers rebel against Splinter, but is often ignored and finds himself pulled along. His ability to stand up to Raphael is limited, but he often demonstrates greater competence than his brother, eventually causing Raphael to accept his word. In Series 4, following a violent defeat of his family by The Shredder, Leonardo, seeing himself as a failure for allowing his brothers and master to be injured, undergoes a period of turmoil and rage, to the extent where he injures Splinter with his Katana, prompting Splinter to send him on a training journey to Japan where he faces his anger and accepts the events that transpired. He comes to terms with the defeat of his family and eventually returns to them a more competent leader.

The 1990 film depicts Leonardo as a young teenager struggling to adapt to his role as leader. Whilst he is conflicted between the roles of ‘Leonardo the teenager’ and ‘Leonardo the leader’, he carries the burden of leadership with a tendency towards guilt and shame in failure. He is shown to reach breaking point during an argument with Raphael. He becomes petulant and petty. That these actions cause Raphael to storm out on his own, leaving him open to an attack that nearly kills him, leads Leonardo to plummet into a spiral of guilt. He becomes inactive until his brother has recovered. His bond with Raphael is demonstrated here, as Leonardo’s regret reminds him how much he loves his brother despite their differences. Leonardo’s leadership skills are tested in this film as their master, Splinter, is abducted and Leonardo is left as the sole leader. Whereas at first he backs away from the new responsibility by opting to avoid confrontational methods, he eventually finds his way and leads the team in a battle to recover their master. This film is very much a learning curve for Leonardo, who makes many mistakes, but learns from them.

In the new film, Leonardo adapts to changing responsibilities having travelled the world on a training programme and is forced to manage himself under Splinter’s higher expectations. The eruption of the long-brewing conflict between him and Raphael comes to a violent climax which ultimately is cathartic for both of them.

Can't be bothered to write anymore....

[Scandia]

You beat me to it.

Leonardo is my favorite. It is kinda hard to define why- but his being both "teacher's pet" and "daddy's boy" probably have something to do with it.

He's far from perfect. He engages in a lot of introspection- more than at least two of his brothers, and about as much as Donatello does. He is a dynamic character after all- even though he is at a higher level than the other three.

Even though he is the leader, he probably feels awkward among his brothers. He is extremely interested in martial arts and would probably have sought them out on his own- while the other 3 do not seem to be quite as much into it and just go along with it as the family trade or to fight the baddies.

I love the Leonardo-centric episodes of the old cartoon. And it is quite interesting that Shredder approached him first- not just because he's so into martial arts, but because he was also the leader and closest to Splinter.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Scandia

You beat me to it.

Yeah, maybe, but I couldn't think of a witty play on words for the title! look how lame it is! leonardo - ...............

[triplexxx]

Originally Posted by Scandia

I love the Leonardo-centric episodes of the old cartoon. And it is quite interesting that Shredder approached him first- not just because he's so into martial arts, but because he was also the leader and closest to Splinter.

When was that? The first place Shredder met them in the old toon was the Technodrome in Enter the Shredder and he met them all at once. I think you're referring to the new toon; if that's what you meant, then never mind this. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think Shredder specifically chose him for any reason except that he was the only one currently out on the rooftops; Shredder knew nothing about him, or his brothers, or his connection to his father; all he knew was that four weird-looking, expert martial artists were interfering with his business.

[Scandia]

This was in the New Toon. I forgot to explain- I was in a rush.

And I just wanted to add that I just watched "Tales of Leo" from the NT. It was pure bliss! I loved the flashbacks to when the Turtles were little boys. And I adored seeing how much Splinter invested in Leonardo. I'm pretty sure he did the same with the other Turtles regarding their specific needs. But it is very easy to see how and why Leo and Splinter bonded so well.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Leonardo is my second favorite, after Raph. I didn't like how stiff he was portrayed in the old show, but I thought that the new toon and new movie did a great job in showcasing a more realistic leader. He's confident, but sometimes over confidant, he is self doubting at first, but after "The Ancient One", he became stronger than ever.

he can be compared to Cyclops, but I think he's overall better. Leo's more accessible and relateable, he comes off as more thanm stiff, and unlike Cclops, he's an older brother first and a leader second.

[TurtleTrails]

Hey Jenna. You did a really good job breaking down Leo in each medium! I definitely agree with you. I don't really have much to add to that but as a fellow Leo lover I felt compelled to write something here. Hehe.

One thing I would add is that I think that Leo spends a lot of his time being the person everyone expects him to be. Leo spends so much time focusing on others and on martial arts that it's easy to perceive him as "boring". Having dealt with those similar personalities myself, once you get past their cover they tend to be very deep and really passionate. But then again...that's my humble opinion.

[aabxx]

I find it interesting that Leo finds revenge to be wrong and without honor. He says in the tale with Cha Ocho that it only leads to sorrow in the future. It is interesting considering he and his brothers in part were raised to exact revenge on behalf of Splinter (who wanted revenge because of a chain of events that basically acknowledges what Leo was lecturing Cha about). I wonder if Splinter and Leo disagree about this? Maybe Splinter ties revenge deeply to honour, so much that he is willing to let it cause more hatred and destruction, while Leo has learned (I assume he thought otherwise when fighting the Shredder) after a while that it's not what he considers to be the right choice of action. But then we come back to the lecturing part...

Is it really fair of Leo to decide for Cha Ocho that exacting his revenge is wrong, after he's had his on Shredder? And does he enjoy too much fighting in an arrogant manner while belittling his opponent in the name of lecturing (he does the same thing against Cha that he does against the nightwatcher...)? What's even more interesting is that the Cha and nighwatcher fights are even more related because just like with Cha, Leo is trying to deny the nightwatcher the very same thing he's been doing all over the world... as both Cha and Raph would put it, Leo can be way too smug. And while trying to teach Cha something about revenge, Leo does something very curious... he scars Cha on purpose, as a mark of shame, but in doing so he looks a bit full of himself considering he's given Cha a reason to... some day... take... revenge!

And besides... wasn't the very act of teaching him a lesson and scarring him also some sort of... revenge? Perhaps it would've been better to just let him be and ponder for himself whether it was right or not.

But then again, maybe Leo thought it was worth it if it meant there was a small chance of saving Cha... it didn't work out though (I assume). He also didn't manage to convince the nightwatcher or Raphael on the rooftop... maybe Leo was right, but his delivery sometimes just isn't good enough? But then again, what else could he have done against the Nightwatcher and Raphael? Maybe he thought it was the only way to make them listen... and maybe it was... I dunno. I'm only providing some thoughts, not answers

[BigApple3AM]

Originally Posted by jenna

The 1990 film depicts Leonardo as a young teenager struggling to adapt to his role as leader. Whilst he is conflicted between the roles of ‘Leonardo the teenager’ and ‘Leonardo the leader’, he carries the burden of leadership with a tendency towards guilt and shame in failure. He is shown to reach breaking point during an argument with Raphael. He becomes petulant and petty. That these actions cause Raphael to storm out on his own, leaving him open to an attack that nearly kills him, leads Leonardo to plummet into a spiral of guilt. He becomes inactive until his brother has recovered. His bond with Raphael is demonstrated here, as Leonardo’s regret reminds him how much he loves his brother despite their differences. Leonardo’s leadership skills are tested in this film as their master, Splinter, is abducted and Leonardo is left as the sole leader. Whereas at first he backs away from the new responsibility by opting to avoid confrontational methods, he eventually finds his way and leads the team in a battle to recover their master. This film is very much a learning curve for Leonardo, who makes many mistakes, but learns from them.

I disagree. How could he have known he was sending Raph to a rooftop fight? And petty? Not any more so than Raph was acting. Of course being the leader he's the one who has to realize they were both wrong and as the responsible one had to make sure Raph was okay afterwards, but inactive? You don't remember the huge fight right after Raph was hurt? I agree he does play watchdog at the farm, but he wasn't any more inactive than mikey or don. What was don doing other than sitting in the truck with casey making jokes while casey worked on the truck... heh, shoulda been the other way around but oh well. Otherwise everything else is spot on, but I'd like to add that Leo is the only one who could handle shredder, but he has a raph moment and his own frustration and anger takes control and makes him the worst almost leading to his brothers' death. I like this Leo but even in the end he acts immature, he should have been more leader-like but oh well.


Oh and Optimus Prime the least flawed character? I dunno, I can totally see it, but there are a couple g1 episodes where he completely messes up. Like that one where he makes the autobots leave earth and almost sends them crashing into the sun because of what I thought was his own pride/sense of honor. In the movie he's not perfect either, considering he gets killed. But yeah as far as flawed leaders go Optimus has nothing on Rodimus.

[triplexxx]

Originally Posted by Ectocooler

but I'd like to add that Leo is the only one who could handle shredder

No, he's not. He stands no more a chance against Shredder than any of his brothers.

[Spawn Guy]

Let a fellow fan have an opinion.

[triplexxx]

My apologies, but it sounded to me like he was trying to state a fact, and that's not a fact.

[Spawn Guy]

Same could be said of you in a lot of cases.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Ectocooler

I disagree. How could he have known he was sending Raph to a rooftop fight?

You are very welcome to disagree with me, but I don't think I explained properly. I didn't mean that Leo would know Raph would be attacked - I meant that he feels this guilt with hindsight and regrets his actions later.

And petty? Not any more so than Raph was acting.

Yeah, but we expect this kind of behaviour from Raph. Leo is usually able to rise above Raph and his childish tantrums, but whilst under the pressure of Splinter's absence he is less tolerant.

Of course being the leader he's the one who has to realize they were both wrong and as the responsible one had to make sure Raph was okay afterwards, but inactive? You don't remember the huge fight right after Raph was hurt? I agree he does play watchdog at the farm, but he wasn't any more inactive than mikey or don.

Absolutely, I remember the fight after and I realise I neglected to refer to this. They all fought fantastically and bravely under the circumstances. At the farm Leo retreats into himself (whilst Mike faces his own rage and Don seeks humour from a replacement for Mike (Casey)) and is not able to take the bull by the horns until he has resolved his conflict about Raph and this happens during his sole mediation scene.

but I'd like to add that Leo is the only one who could handle shredder, but he has a raph moment and his own frustration and anger takes control and makes him the worst almost leading to his brothers' death. I like this Leo but even in the end he acts immature, he should have been more leader-like but oh well.

In my opinion this Leo is a young Leo who has a lot to learn, but makes a huge journey in this film, moreso than any other turtle. His "Raph moment" as you brilliantly put it is a sign that Leonardo, for all his virtue, is still a young turtle who must learn to handle his own rage just as Raph has to. It is only in extreme circumstances that Leo is unable to do this. Leo's lesson is the greatest. He meets a huge obstacle in his development when Splinter is abducted, but he eventually overcomes it and leads his brothers to meet their enemy head on. If he wasn't an accomplished leader at the start of the film, he is by the end.