Hun in Mirage

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Galactus

What, you mean specificaly in TMNT? The jury is still out on how the Battle Nexus will pan out in current main book and the appearance of the Ninja Tribunal and the Acient One is in the Leo prequel is so minor it's not even worth getting worked up about.

I mean specifically in TMNT. I don't follow any of those other series close enough to have an opinion on what they've done either way. I hate all of Volume 4, so the Battle Nexus crap is just another part of that and I don't care what happens with it. I wouldn't say I was "worked up" about the Ancient One bit, but it remains my opinion that I did not like it.

Why wouldn't Triceratons exist in movieverse?

But why the hell would they exist? If effort were made to establish them as part of their universe, I wouldn't care so much (although I've personally grown tired of the Triceratons in general in recent years). But in that book without explanation at all, not only do Triceratons exist, but the Turtles are hunting them in the sewers. It's just a big WTF? for me.

For me personaly I understand that the likes of Bebop and Rocksteady should really remain in the 80's and 90's but I've always thought it was slightly closed minded to ignore characters like say Armaggon who Laird had a hand in creating and wouldn't feel that out of place in Mirage or current cartoon.

Armaggon is one of my all-time favorite characters, so it would be hard for me to say "No" to anything involving him, but I do think I'd have to do just that for him appearing in Mirage. I would have been ok with him showing up in the current cartoon if it involved adapting one or more stories with him from the Archie books. I don't think I'd support him just showing up out of the blue.

It's no secret that the Mirage turtles have a limited rogues gallery. While I would like new bad guys I don't see the problem with introducing villians that have already proven themselves in other media. At very least its better than random aliens that Tales seems to have a lot of.

I do agree that we need new/more villains, but I stand by my opinion that bringing in Hun is not the best move (and like I said, call him Fred and I'm cool with him).

Moreso than just creating new villains, though, I think it's important to give the TMNT an actual purpose to fight for. They've been kind of wandering aimlessly ever since the end of City At War, which brought to an end the purpose they fought for/against up until that point. Nothing new was ever established after that. Laird seems hesitant to brand them as crime fighters, which I can understand because they never were crime fighters to start with, but a comic about ninjas who don't ninja (for example, Volume 4) is damn boring.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Sorry to say this Tristan, but I'm not on board for this. It's just not the sort of universe crossing that I'm a fan of.

I can understand that. I think the way you feel about this is probably the same way I feel about bringing someone like Cudley Cowlick into the Mirage U. I'm not a fan of the idea, as I think the Archie continuity is great, but I think it's better as it's own entity (that said, I could see something happening where Savanti Romero forces a universal/dimensional crossover).

The way I saw it was that a character like Hun fits perfectly into the Mirage Universe. Initially I had him go by another name with a few slight alterations, but I started thinking that if I used that character, people would start drawing comparisons to Hun, which would be fair enough but I thought, and Peter thought the same, if the character was so similar, why not just make it Hun but play by the new set of rules.

Give him a chance though, as he's a big piece to an even bigger puzzle. I've spoken to some who think each universe should remain it's own, which I'm completely cool with, I just ask that you check it out when it comes and give it a chance. To me, Hun is a solid character, but in all honesty, I think he has a lot more potential than what he's being used for in the show.

He's going to be similar, but at the same time very much his own. Ultimately, I'm not out to mess this book up, I want to tell good, solid stories, stories I'd want to see as a fan, and stories I'd want to tell as a writer, but I know that ultimately, not everyone is going to see eye-to-eye. All I ask is that you give it a chance

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

No, because you couldn't have an old show (or new show or anything else) if you didn't use characters from the comic books. For me it's always been a one-way street: Stuff from the comics moves to the cartoon(s) and/or other things, but it never worked the other way around.

But that said, how much of the cartoon have we seen cross over? There was the Battle Nexus, which is similar in name and concept, but even that is yet to lay all its cards on the table.

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Along similar lines, I absolutely hated that there were Triceratons in the Raphael movie prequel comic and the Ancient One in the Leo prequel comic.

This I admittedly found somewhat jarring, and for the same reasons as you. They were seemingly dropped in there, but if you've managed to see them coloured and in the Titan books, they make more sense as something for kids to say "Oh! Triceratons/Ancient One! Cool!" (although the Raph story was surprisingly full-on thematically).

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Soooo... what's the point of him being Hun then? Call him Fred and I'm good with him.

Honestly, he's only called Hun probably 15% of the time. Mason 70% of the time, Bastard 10% and Son of a Bitch 5%

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I just think it unnecessarily muddies the lines between universes; boundaries that used to be extremely solid and well defined. More and more so they're slipping away. If you're going to have all these different universes that target different audiences and purposes, I just think it's important to keep those boundaries in place.

As I said, hopefully you'll give it a chance. I wanted to be sure there were some very defining differences between the two, and that he wasn't just "thrown in there". There's a very logical reason as to why he comes back and where he's been, but as I said, he's a very big piece in a very big puzzle and it all stems out of #36.

Originally Posted by Harukuro

Does it have a turtle with two Xs for eyes? (Just kidding) But seriously wow...I didn't see this coming. I can't wait to find out more info on the story and what this Hun will be like. Oh and the blog entry itself was pretty funny.

Think Red Dragon.

I'm going to keep the story pretty firmly under lock and key . All you need to know for now is that there's a very heavy focus on Casey and Hun and how their pasts are tied. Some very important glimpses into Casey's past too.

Originally Posted by Galactus

For me personaly I understand that the likes of Bebop and Rocksteady should really remain in the 80's and 90's but I've always thought it was slightly closed minded to ignore characters like say Armaggon who Laird had a hand in creating and wouldn't feel that out of place in Mirage or current cartoon.

I actually have an idea for those two that I'm positive would work. Slightly controversial, but if I could write ANY two characters, Bebop and Rocksteady would be them.

However, I think Armaggon and certain Archie characters have a number of limitations on them when it comes to the Mirage Universe that aren't as much of a worry in the Archie books (namely the urban realism of the Mirage books - for the most part). You could very possibly do something with them in a post Vol. 4 environment, but ultimately it could end up as a total rehash of what's come before without too much variation to the character (which I admit, is a stance that could be taken with Hun).

Originally Posted by Galactus

It's no secret that the Mirage turtles have a limited rogues gallery. While I would like new bad guys I don't see the problem with introducing villians that have already proven themselves in other media. At very least its better than random aliens that Tales seems to have a lot of.

This I agree with. I think Hun is a proven character, and the similarities between the first few seasons of the new toon and the comics allow for a relatively smooth transition. But even though he's a proven character, he still needs to prove himself in the Mirage books, which is what I intend on doing.
The grander scheme of things also involves several new villains. Hun will have ties to the Razorbacks, and a number of new villains will come into play.

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I mean specifically in TMNT. I don't follow any of those other series close enough to have an opinion on what they've done either way. I hate all of Volume 4, so the Battle Nexus crap is just another part of that and I don't care what happens with it. I wouldn't say I was "worked up" about the Ancient One bit, but it remains my opinion that I did not like it.

What other universe crossover does that leave for this then Rose? As you said, you hate Vol.4, so hating the Battle Nexus was going to happen. This is pretty far removed from Vol.4 (extremely removed).



[QUOTE=Roseangelo;625860]But why the hell would they exist? If effort were made to establish them as part of their universe, I wouldn't care so much (although I've personally grown tired of the Triceratons in general in recent years). But in that book without explanation at all, not only do Triceratons exist, but the Turtles are hunting them in the sewers. It's just a big WTF? for me.

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Armaggon is one of my all-time favorite characters, so it would be hard for me to say "No" to anything involving him, but I do think I'd have to do just that for him appearing in Mirage. I would have been ok with him showing up in the current cartoon if it involved adapting one or more stories with him from the Archie books. I don't think I'd support him just showing up out of the blue.

Again, no-one is showing up out of the blue here. I can't stand it when characters just show up. I'm also not a huge fan of the "monster-of-the-week" idea (outside of the X-Files).

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I do agree that we need new/more villains, but I stand by my opinion that bringing in Hun is not the best move (and like I said, call him Fred and I'm cool with him).

But I call him Fred, and the similarities are glaring, people start asking why isn't it just Hun, which is exactly what I said after I sat back with the final outline.

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Moreso than just creating new villains, though, I think it's important to give the TMNT an actual purpose to fight for. They've been kind of wandering aimlessly ever since the end of City At War, which brought to an end the purpose they fought for/against up until that point. Nothing new was ever established after that. Laird seems hesitant to brand them as crime fighters, which I can understand because they never were crime fighters to start with, but a comic about ninjas who don't ninja (for example, Volume 4) is damn boring.

Trust me, this is EXACTLY what I hope to address. A point will come where Hun and a number of other (soon to be) key players will essentially say "No more freaks", and the **** will hit the fan. But like you said, this can't just happen... it's all part of the puzzle

I guess it might not be a good idea mentioning that he appears in #59 and is referenced in two other issues.

[oldmanwinters]

I tend to agree with Rose that I like the TMNT universes separate and distinct instead of trying to merge everything else into pre-existing universes. The Mirage comics and the movies shouldn't have to borrow from the 2k3 toon, though it is fun to see stuff like Triceratons in Raph's prequel and Shredder's 2k3 armor in Volume 4. Still, it just doesn't seem like the Shredder of the TMNT movie is the same Shredder of the 1990 and 1991 films. And it doesn't seem like the "alternative" Shredder in Volume 4 would be as immediately recognizable to Leo as the original Shredder the Turtles fought and killed (twice! or is it thrice?) in Volume 1.

That said, I would like to see more "what if" universe crossovers like the OT turtles and the NT turtles. But I also like the fact that somethings remain the same no matter how much some things change.

There, was that answer ambivalent enough?

[Roseangelo]

I appreciate your passion about this Tristan, but it's ok for people to have differing opinions on things. And there's no reason to assume that this is going to be the first ever TMNT comic I don't read.

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I'm going to keep the story pretty firmly under lock and key . All you need to know for now is that there's a very heavy focus on Casey and Hun and how their pasts are tied. Some very important glimpses into Casey's past too.

So he's either an old friend of Casey's, related to Casey in some way (or related to Moose Mason from the Archie comics...come on...same last name, basically the same build...hey...it could happen), or he killed Casey's dad (which is what he did in the current toon).

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I appreciate your passion about this Tristan, but it's ok for people to have differing opinions on things. And there's no reason to assume that this is going to be the first ever TMNT comic I don't read.

Thanks Rose, and I know that, I'm just giving you my reasons the same as you're giving yours. I'm totally cool with it. I'm going to be on the edge of my seat to see what your response to the final product is now though

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

So he's either an old friend of Casey's, related to Casey in some way (or related to Moose Mason from the Archie comics...come on...same last name, basically the same build...hey...it could happen), or he killed Casey's dad (which is what he did in the current toon).

It could be any one of those things. Or all of them. I know that if you switched a few of the words around in that post regarding the theories you'd be close to the mark

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

It could be any one of those things. Or all of them. I know that if you switched a few of the words around in that post regarding the theories you'd be close to the mark

He IS Casey's dad.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

It could be any one of those things. Or all of them. I know that if you switched a few of the words around in that post regarding the theories you'd be close to the mark

Casey killed his dad!?

Or Casey killed Archie?

[TristanHuwJones]

Or Casey killed Archie?

****! I didn't think anyone would get that so soon!

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

****! I didn't think anyone would get that so soon!

Yeah, it was kinda unpredictable

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

Random aliens: The loophole in "no more mutants."

I'll always prefer mutants to aliens!

[TristanHuwJones]

I think aliens are fine, I just think there can be too much. I got kind of tired of seeing Triceratons in the new cartoon. By the time they decided to invade Earth, we'd seen way too much of them. I know Dan's plan for Tales is to include as much variety in the stories as possible, so there'll be alien tales, Foot tales, Duck Tales (woo-oo!).

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Duck Tales (woo-oo!).

Oh, man, I think I would special order that crossover tommorrow.

It's actually happened before officially, if you can believe it!

Ever seen the Cartoon All-Stars, Tristan?

[TristanHuwJones]

...unfortunately, yes.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

...unfortunately, yes.

I think I wore out my local library's VHS copy since I watched it so much as a kid.

[TristanHuwJones]

Did yours start off with that terrible McDonalds ad?

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

...unfortunately, yes.

There we go. I'll let you diss on Cartoon All-Stars, but I get to not like Hun being in the comics.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Did yours start off with that terrible McDonalds ad?

Hmm, I mostly remember the "Love lifted me" add for a children's hospital (or was it Ronald McDonald House?). I seem to recall it was associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Maybe it was connected to the Ronald McDonald House after all. Help my fading memory out!

Actually, the George and Barbara Bush introduction sealed the deal for me that this presentation was pretty significant if the Leader of the Free World (and the First Lady) put their seal of approval on it!