There's Only One Man Who Could Save the Turtles... - Page 2

01-27-2009, 09:02 PM

I've met Peter Laird twice, and I can say that he's been nice to me. He even complimented my art and got a kick out of a drawing I gave him.

Unfortunately I haven't met Kevin Eastman yet.

*Roseangelo* · 01-27-2009, 09:11 PM

I don't know why I bother.

**Jester** · 01-27-2009, 09:22 PM

Soooo we're comparing Peter's web demeanor to Kevin's one on one personal demeanor? That seems like the results could be a bit skewed.

trustno1 · 01-27-2009, 09:23 PM

have you ever told kevin you didn't like his work?

*Roseangelo* · 01-27-2009, 10:02 PM

I'm done with this.

I suck and am clearly not in sound mind. Fire away.

**Machias Banshee** · 01-27-2009, 10:14 PM

Hang on a sec...

I've been reading and just want to say... I don't think their confusion of your personal thing with Peter means that they want to go after You. They just can't see why you're so vehemently against everything the man's done. I think the rushed decision editing your posts away is just going to confuse people more.

I know *some* of what's happened between the two of you. I just think it's a matter of not knowing the whole backstory of your individual experience...

**Jester** · 01-27-2009, 10:20 PM

And I'm sorry if I came off as a tad snarky Rose. I consider you a friend, I really do, but the constant battle between you and Peter Laird has jaded your view of the man, and I'm sure it's jaded his view of you and maybe even other fans. Please understand that it can get pretty old when all you see is fawning over Eastman and constant nagging and griping being directed at Laird. 'Sall I'm saying.

*Roseangelo* · 01-27-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Hang on a sec...

I don't think their confusion of your personal thing with Peter means that they want to go after You. They just can't see why you're so vehemently against everything the man's done. I know *some* of what's happened between the two of you. I just think it's a matter of not knowing the whole backstory...

I'm not vehemently against everything the man's ever done. My original statement was a fact that I shouldn't have to defend and it was not my intention or desire to go into length about the issues I do have with Peter. This happens every time I express any such opinions about him, and it's getting a bit old. I have my reasons and they're not all the business of the entire world to know, so I don't know why that expectation exists.

Do you think I ****ing like being known for virtually nothing else beyond hatin' on Peter Laird? No, I don't. It kinda really sucks more than any of you could ever realize. Obviously this hasn't stopped me from speaking my mind. I'm guilty. I suck. Etc., etc.

And I am so through with this conversation.

**Machias Banshee** · 01-27-2009, 10:41 PM

I didn't say that you have to divulge everything. I just said that people aren't going to understand. And I Never Ever said you couldn't share your opinion. We get a lot of new people that visit who aren't going to understand. That's just how it is on forums.

You're welcomed to speak here just as much as everyone else. And that's all I'll say about this conversation as well...

turkishproverb · 01-27-2009, 10:43 PM

Although the fact Eastman is more Hands on as an owner for Heavy Metal is a pretty good sign he'd have burned Gary by now...

**GK Punk** · 01-27-2009, 10:49 PM

I agree, there is only one man that can save the TMNT

(I know a few of you saw that coming.)

**Machias Banshee** · 01-27-2009, 10:50 PM

Amen, brother....

**Venom** · 01-27-2009, 11:03 PM

Lol, say, did you know RVD owns a comic shop in Texas?

*Andrew NDB* · 01-28-2009, 12:36 AM

I dunno about Kevin Eastman anymore. I mean, he's a great guy personally, met him in 99. Creative as hell, and a real man's man. If I had to have a beer and shoot the sh*t with either Kevin or Peter, I'd probably grab a beer and hang with Kevin for a few rounds.

As far as the TMNT go, though, I know he has the right idea in his head as far as the comics go (Kevin has always been the proponent of the Ronin-influence, the ninja stuff, the Miller-esque vibe at times... things Peter seems to have a distaste for)... but when left in charge of the larger franchise itself, he gave us Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation, which was 100% his baby (Laird quietly disowned it early into development). And he had a bunch of interviews before NT:TNM came out talking about how dark it was going to be, and the TMNT were going to be grittier than in the movies.

So yeah... that fiasco sort of strained his credibility with me as any kind of TMNT savior back then.

And then a few years later Kevin just goes and cashes his chips out and sells all the rights to Laird... literally selling out.

I know Kevin gets irritated when people say this because he still gets royalties on things pre-rights turnover (or shared reprint rights on his TMNT works, or whatever) but it still amounts to him legally being able to have zero to do creatively or production-wise with anything TMNT related ever again. Unless Peter so wishes it... and few people see that happening.

NameGoesHere1066 · 01-28-2009, 10:40 AM

I love both Kevin and Peter and I think the both of them together has produced great work. There stlyes in creativity really blend well and I think that is what makes the turtles comic as great as it is.

However I think when Kevin is on board his personal favorite characters tend to take over the story. I love Raphael, he is my favorite next Leonardo, but in the early comics Raphael (as well as Casey Jones) kinda became a spot light hog to the point where it was more like "Raphael and the ninja turtles", not just the ninja turtles. I notice Kevin's favorite characters tend to swallow the story as it where. Which is...ok, if you like Raphael, but his character really made the other turtles play second fiddle to him in a lot of ways.

I hear alot of my fellow Raphael fans complain how he didn't get enough attention in the new show, but to be honest what the new show really did was put Raphael as one of the main characters instead of the main character. I think to an extent we Raphael fans have been spoiled because we're used to our favorite turtle having the spot light and having every thing be about him and his thoughts and feelings, that when he is written as not being the sole focus and has to share his spot light with Leo, Don, and Mikey (which is fair because they are the title characters) we cry afoul because he's not getting the same focus as he did.

With Peter at the helm I think he does a better job of spreading the attention on all four of them more equally, and not just all the turtles but other characters as well.

*Mr._Mutant_Man* · 01-28-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

I'm not vehemently against everything the man's ever done. My original statement was a fact that I shouldn't have to defend and it was not my intention or desire to go into length about the issues I do have with Peter. This happens every time I express any such opinions about him, and it's getting a bit old. I have my reasons and they're not all the business of the entire world to know, so I don't know why that expectation exists.

Do you think I ****ing like being known for virtually nothing else beyond hatin' on Peter Laird? No, I don't. It kinda really sucks more than any of you could ever realize. Obviously this hasn't stopped me from speaking my mind. I'm guilty. I suck. Etc., etc.

And I am so through with this conversation.

I really don't mean to start anything, but I think if you're going to criticize someone it's good to give examples as to why. Otherwise someone is seemingly being called rude and disrespectful for no reason. I think that if people are reading that about someone, it makes sense that they are going to want to know why.

Otherwise it's probably best to go with what a wise rabbit once said: "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

With that said, that's my opinion on the matter and I'm going to drop it too.

*Kendamu* · 01-28-2009, 08:03 PM

I always liked the stories they worked on together the best. I like their mix of sci-fi and gritty action. While I like gritty action more than sci-fi and love solo Kevin stories, Pete's sci-fi drama stuff really completes it all.

**Jester** · 01-28-2009, 08:18 PM

That may just be it...only one man can save the TMNT...by coming back and working once again with the other co-creator to bring the TMNT back to what they were a wonderful mix of ninja action/grit and sci-fi/character progression.

~~Vegita-San~~ · 01-28-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelangelo83

Unfortunately he severed ties to the characters he created.

You mean more issues like Body Count? That piece of trash is the worst Turtles thing ever created...yes, even badder than Next Mutation. I'd rather see every episode of Next Mutation from here to eternity than read Body Count ever again...

*Kendamu* · 01-28-2009, 08:54 PM

Aww, c'mon! I liked Bodycount!

01-27-2009, 09:11 PM	#22
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	I don't know why I bother. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com Last edited by Roseangelo; 01-27-2009 at 10:01 PM.

01-27-2009, 09:22 PM	#23
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	Soooo we're comparing Peter's web demeanor to Kevin's one on one personal demeanor? That seems like the results could be a bit skewed. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

01-27-2009, 10:02 PM	#25
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	I'm done with this. I suck and am clearly not in sound mind. Fire away. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

01-27-2009, 10:20 PM	#27
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	And I'm sorry if I came off as a tad snarky Rose. I consider you a friend, I really do, but the constant battle between you and Peter Laird has jaded your view of the man, and I'm sure it's jaded his view of you and maybe even other fans. Please understand that it can get pretty old when all you see is fawning over Eastman and constant nagging and griping being directed at Laird. 'Sall I'm saying. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

01-28-2009, 10:40 AM	#35
NameGoesHere1066 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: at home LOL Posts: 957	I love both Kevin and Peter and I think the both of them together has produced great work. There stlyes in creativity really blend well and I think that is what makes the turtles comic as great as it is. However I think when Kevin is on board his personal favorite characters tend to take over the story. I love Raphael, he is my favorite next Leonardo, but in the early comics Raphael (as well as Casey Jones) kinda became a spot light hog to the point where it was more like "Raphael and the ninja turtles", not just the ninja turtles. I notice Kevin's favorite characters tend to swallow the story as it where. Which is...ok, if you like Raphael, but his character really made the other turtles play second fiddle to him in a lot of ways. I hear alot of my fellow Raphael fans complain how he didn't get enough attention in the new show, but to be honest what the new show really did was put Raphael as one of the main characters instead of the main character. I think to an extent we Raphael fans have been spoiled because we're used to our favorite turtle having the spot light and having every thing be about him and his thoughts and feelings, that when he is written as not being the sole focus and has to share his spot light with Leo, Don, and Mikey (which is fair because they are the title characters) we cry afoul because he's not getting the same focus as he did. With Peter at the helm I think he does a better job of spreading the attention on all four of them more equally, and not just all the turtles but other characters as well. __________________ ]

01-27-2009, 09:02 PM	#21
Ryona Guest Posts: n/a	I've met Peter Laird twice, and I can say that he's been nice to me. He even complimented my art and got a kick out of a drawing I gave him. Unfortunately I haven't met Kevin Eastman yet.

01-27-2009, 09:23 PM	#24
trustno1 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 117	have you ever told kevin you didn't like his work?

01-27-2009, 10:14 PM	#26
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Hang on a sec... I've been reading and just want to say... I don't think their confusion of your personal thing with Peter means that they want to go after You. They just can't see why you're so vehemently against everything the man's done. I think the rushed decision editing your posts away is just going to confuse people more. I know some of what's happened between the two of you. I just think it's a matter of not knowing the whole backstory of your individual experience...

01-27-2009, 10:41 PM	#29
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	I didn't say that you have to divulge everything. I just said that people aren't going to understand. And I Never Ever said you couldn't share your opinion. We get a lot of new people that visit who aren't going to understand. That's just how it is on forums. You're welcomed to speak here just as much as everyone else. And that's all I'll say about this conversation as well...

01-27-2009, 10:49 PM	#31
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	I agree, there is only one man that can save the TMNT (I know a few of you saw that coming.)

01-27-2009, 10:50 PM	#32
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Amen, brother....

01-27-2009, 11:03 PM	#33
Venom Space Knight Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,637	Lol, say, did you know RVD owns a comic shop in Texas?

01-28-2009, 12:36 AM	#34
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,543	I dunno about Kevin Eastman anymore. I mean, he's a great guy personally, met him in 99. Creative as hell, and a real man's man. If I had to have a beer and shoot the sht with either Kevin or Peter, I'd probably grab a beer and hang with Kevin for a few rounds. As far as the TMNT go, though, I know he has the right idea in his head as far as the comics go (Kevin has always been the proponent of the Ronin-influence, the ninja stuff, the Miller-esque vibe at times... things Peter seems to have a distaste for)... but when left in charge of the larger franchise itself, he gave us Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation, which was 100% his baby (Laird quietly disowned it early into development). And he had a bunch of interviews before NT:TNM came out talking about how dark it was going to be, and the TMNT were going to be grittier than in the movies. So yeah... that fiasco sort of strained his credibility with me as any kind of TMNT savior back then. And then a few years later Kevin just goes and cashes his chips out and sells all the rights to Laird... literally selling out. I know Kevin gets irritated when people say this because he still gets royalties on things pre-rights turnover (or shared reprint rights on his TMNT works, or whatever) but it still amounts to him legally being able to have zero* to do creatively or production-wise with anything TMNT related ever again. Unless Peter so wishes it... and few people see that happening.

01-28-2009, 08:03 PM	#37
Kendamu Sewerhead Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,890	I always liked the stories they worked on together the best. I like their mix of sci-fi and gritty action. While I like gritty action more than sci-fi and love solo Kevin stories, Pete's sci-fi drama stuff really completes it all.

01-28-2009, 08:18 PM	#38
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	That may just be it...only one man can save the TMNT...by coming back and working once again with the other co-creator to bring the TMNT back to what they were a wonderful mix of ninja action/grit and sci-fi/character progression. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

01-28-2009, 08:54 PM	#40
Kendamu Sewerhead Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,890	Aww, c'mon! I liked Bodycount!