Why do you think the series had such a hard time moving on from Shredder?

[Spitfire]

They implied pretty heavily that he was the founder in the Secret Origins story arc. As for the Demon Shredder I think they used him to show fans Shredder's true origins. Seeing the story of the real Shredder was probably the most interesting thing about that whole season.

It's funny because we see 2K3 as Shredder overload but we don't mind it too much when it comes to the Old Toon. Granted no one takes the Old Toon seriously I see a lot of fans complain about Dregg replacing Shredder and Krang for 2 seasons when those two dominated the villain slot for the 8 seasons prior.

[shuriken]

You see but that's different. There was only ONE Shredder. Plus that show was a different format I guess? Kind of like Robotnik/Eggman with Sonic. With each episode pretty much being resolved in the same episode, as opposed to a seasonlong intertwining story.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Because he is the sole founder? Nothing beats the original creator.

only in 2k3.
in the comic ha was only chosen to lead the NY branch of the Foot.
in the cartoon he cheated to the role of leader, but he wasn't the founder

[Prowler]

It's a strange thing, really.

In the OT we used to complain that the Turtles fought Shredder every single episode, but when we had a no Shredder episode we wanted him bad so badly since some of those no shredder episodes(especially the first ones in Season 4) were pretty bad.

And let's not even get started when Dregg replaced him.

But let's face it, without Shredder the Turtles probably have no reason to live.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

You mention he returns a lot in the series but he returned a lot in the comic as well. He came back twice, once as a worm clone and once as a shark mutant. I can see why they chose to keep bringing him back.

Didn't the Shark Mutant thing happen during Volume 4's run? That seems like it's a pretty recent thing. If you look at the original Volume 1 (which I think had a perfect ending for the Turtles, btw), the Shredder only came back once. Well... a clone of him, anyway, as the true Shredder was dead and never coming back. But my point is that the main villain (or villains, rather) was not Shredder, but the Foot as a whole. Actually... main villain doesn't even fit there. I think a better term would be "recurring", as the original comic didn't have a main villain at all.

Gosh, I love Volume 1 so much. It's just this perfect little masterpiece with a clear cut beginning and end... sorry to get off-topic there. ^^;

[Jo Dawn]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Peripherally. I mean, yes, Shredder does need to be there in some capacity, and most certainly at the beginning.

Beyond that? Not so much. But his presence can be felt beyond him actually hovering around, alive.

I agree. Shredder was kaput early on in the original comics, and it sure didn't hurt it any. Shredder does not need to be there to make it TMNT. I think most people who think that are stuck in the OT. (No offense.)

I guess they felt they needed an ultimate evil, and even when Shredder was dealt with in the series, he was such a menace, it was always an big 'OH NO!!' when news hit that he might come back.

I never felt Shredder was the ultimate evil. In fact, I was hoping they'd pull a cool comics twist and off him once and for all. I grew tired of the continual 'Oh, he's coming back. Save us.' type thing. Boo. Off him!

Personally, in the 2K3, I felt Bastion could have been much more of a menace. They could have drawn on his pull and power in the world. They had tons of possibilities with other villains in the TMNT universe, also.

I'm not sure what word I'm looking for when I think about why they never can quite move past Shredder. Fear? Were they afraid that people themselves couldn't deal with a TMNT storyline that did not include the Shredder? Which is insulting to many of us who were looking for more than just the same old. I am unsure, however, if their decision gave the fans too little credit, or if it was right on target.

[shuriken]

who is Bastion if I may ask?
Honestly 2k3 missed the boat on a LOT of reoccuring villain eps. More Savanti and possibly his wife, Complete Carnage, Shote, More Rat King, less Karai (LOL).
I think Season 4 was one of the best due to the array of villains they faced and the stories that all connected to the post Final battle of the SHredder fight trauma of Leo. His pressence was there, but he himself wasn't.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by shuriken

who is Bastion if I may ask?

An amalgamation of Bishop and Baxter Stockman.