What is it that this new series has...

[pannoni1]

You forgot one important thing: this series has more people who were fans growing up watching earlier series compared to the other versions, meaning that the staff actually can use some material to incorporate all of the Easter Eggs and twist off some earlier concepts into the show. 4kids didn't have this since the franchise was coming off of its dark period, as Turtles Forever shows with its misconceptions of the 1987 Turtles. However, on the flip side, it is facing much more competition than it ever did, with a mix of classic franchises either making a comeback or continue to sell (Power Rangers, Pokemon, Transformers, Spongebob, My Little Pony) along with newer brands (Kung Fu Panda, Cars) meaning that promotion is more important than ever to having success, and a large company like Nickelodeon proves that it can, with clues about the show in a much more diversified setting (Mall of America, Comic Con, the Toy Fair, Thanksigiving Parade) to maximize exposure. Let's hope this continues.

[The Big Bad]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Gargoyles had the same recaps before most episodes. They would show clips from Season 1 episodes while we were in the end of Season 2 for example just
to remind people of something that happened 50 or so episodes ago.

As for the Nick show, what exactly did they change?

- Splinter being Hamato Yoshi again was something they knew would be accepted because its his original cartoon origin and what people are used to.

- The Turtles having new enemies/mutants, etc. is done in every incarnation, everyone knew there would be new characters. Some aren't well received like Spiderbitez while others are.

- The Kraang are basically evil versions of the Utroms.

- April being 16 was the major game changer, but everyone feels it worked out for the best because these Turtles act like real teens. Having April closer to their age has worked out wonderfully.

- Mike's nunchucks becoming a Kurisama is no big deal and is accepted.

- The alterations to the Turtles personalities is something that's done in every incarnation, but in essence they still have the same basic character archetypes they've always had.

Gosh, it's like I didn't even say that the recaps I mentioned are not the ones from the opening. And yet there the distinction is, plain as day. I have no idea what happened to make you unable to see it, and hope it is not permanent.

As for what has changed besides the things you've mentioned...lessee: plotting, pacing, atmosphere, tone, message, aesthetics, text, subtext, metatext, and in general, anything having to do with the execution of the story--do those not count as "changes"? More importantly, do you truly believe that these do not inform what the writers believe, or that they do not have the ability to affect how the work is received by the audience? If that's the case, then congratulations!: I simply don't know just what to say to you.

[CyberCubed]

But changes from what, exactly? Of course the show wasn't going to repeat the same exact plotlines from either the OT or 4kids series.

The changes they made has to do with the family dynamic between Splinter and the brothers and now April. That is from what I can tell the most well received part of the how thus far.

This is a character driven show, as most of the plots so far are simple and basic, but its the interaction between the cast and villains that makes it enjoyable. The OT worked this angle well too because that's why people can still enjoy the show as adults.

[Lisardo]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

im just now watching the bulk of the 2k3 series and i feel like a lot of times it takes itself a lil too seriously and tries a bit too hard to be "cool". don't get me wrong, i absolutely love it, but it feels like it doesn't have the same confidence behind it that the nick series does. it feels like the nick show is perfectly comfortable being a tween show and can strafe the line between super-cute/kiddie and bad-ass/awesome with ease.

Yeah. I like that well-roundedness about it as well. It's a little bit of everything; 'serious' mixed in with 'old skool goofiness'. Perfect mix all around.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What on earth do you mean by, "same confidence?"

exactly what the big bad said. specifically,

The Nick cartoon, on the other hand, has a lot of confidence in what it's doing. In telling their version of their story, they've changed around a lot of things, and have gone about those changes in an unapologetic way. The show as it is drips with the belief that they really are making the best version of the turtles ever. Heck, it's the reason why I don't have any confidence that the show will become more enjoyable for me over time: if they have absolute confidence in their awesomeness, then there's no reason for them to ever change.

its the way the nick crew is just balls-out going for it in their own way. i think its more esoteric than specific. you pointed out a lot particular details:

- Splinter being Hamato Yoshi again was something they knew would be accepted because its his original cartoon origin and what people are used to.

- The Turtles having new enemies/mutants, etc. is done in every incarnation, everyone knew there would be new characters. Some aren't well received like Spiderbitez while others are.

- The Kraang are basically evil versions of the Utroms.

- April being 16 was the major game changer, but everyone feels it worked out for the best because these Turtles act like real teens. Having April closer to their age has worked out wonderfully.

- Mike's nunchucks becoming a Kurisama is no big deal and is accepted.

- The alterations to the Turtles personalities is something that's done in every incarnation, but in essence they still have the same basic character archetypes they've always had.

but what i was referring to was the vibe of the show in relation to its execution as whole and not in the details per se.

yeah, every incarnation is different, but to me, the 2k3 series seems like it feels absolutely beholden to honor the past and does it in such a heavy-handed way. its like they're saying, " hey! get this?? its a reference to this!" where as the nick show just kinda throws it in the background and lets it meld into the nick version of the story.

and dont get me wrong...i'm LOVING the 4kids show. it's great! but that doesnt change that the nick show just seems more comfortable and confident being what it is. and that might also be because they're 2 different types of shows. as i've mentioned (and i think is fairly obvious and accepted) the nick show's target demo is tweens, whereas the 4kids show was trying to be something a little darker, and "cooler" than that.

my point is that the current show is excelling at what its trying to do, where (IMO) the 4kids show stumbled a bit in trying to accomplish what it wanted.

[DonatelloNinja82]

Originally Posted by pannoni1

You forgot one important thing: this series has more people who were fans growing up watching earlier series compared to the other versions, meaning that the staff actually can use some material to incorporate all of the Easter Eggs and twist off some earlier concepts into the show. 4kids didn't have this since the franchise was coming off of its dark period, as Turtles Forever shows with its misconceptions of the 1987 Turtles. However, on the flip side, it is facing much more competition than it ever did, with a mix of classic franchises either making a comeback or continue to sell (Power Rangers, Pokemon, Transformers, Spongebob, My Little Pony) along with newer brands (Kung Fu Panda, Cars) meaning that promotion is more important than ever to having success, and a large company like Nickelodeon proves that it can, with clues about the show in a much more diversified setting (Mall of America, Comic Con, the Toy Fair, Thanksigiving Parade) to maximize exposure. Let's hope this continues.

You make a good point, esp about Turtles Forever. They totally made the 87 turtles way goofier than they really were. My oldest son, aged 8 1/2, watched that first (along with some of 2k3 so far), and swore up and down that he would hate the OT because of the goofiness. Leo is his favorite and he couldnt stand how Leo acted in Turtles Forever. I told him to give OT a chance and showed him some Leo-centric episodes, and that changed his tune! He still doesnt like OT as much as 2k12 or 2k3, but its ok

[Irishmile]

Originally Posted by DonatelloNinja82

You make a good point, esp about Turtles Forever. They totally made the 87 turtles way goofier than they really were. My oldest son, aged 8 1/2, watched that first (along with some of 2k3 so far), and swore up and down that he would hate the OT because of the goofiness. Leo is his favorite and he couldnt stand how Leo acted in Turtles Forever. I told him to give OT a chance and showed him some Leo-centric episodes, and that changed his tune! He still doesnt like OT as much as 2k12 or 2k3, but its ok

My Son (10) likes the 4kids and '12 series better than the OT also.. but he still likes them... His favorite turtle alternates between Raph and Mike.

[Method101]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The show isn't that big a hit ratings wise at least not yet. Ratings have been declining rapidly since the opener.

oh wow really? I thought this whole time, ratings were on the rise, obviously somewhat of a decline from episode 1 to 2

[BubblyShell22]

I think the reason this series is so good is because they start off with better development. In the OT and 4Kids series, it's already established that Leo is the leader, while in this series he's actually shown being chosen to be leader. The Turtles are acting younger in this series than in 4Kids (as I always thought they seemed older than fifteen based on what they had to go through all the time), and they're still learning more about the surface and about themselves. I like how Nick has done that and has given the Turtles something different to work with rather than make them what they were before. It's just so cool.

[Refractive Reflections]

As most people have said its a balance of gritty fighting scenes and humorous comedy, plus the focus on character interaction and development is what makes its appeal, just like the OT did, because it makes the characters more relatable.

In my opinion, the 2003 TMNT version was just...eh, okay...because the tone seemed too dedicated to prove itself as being "too cool" for the OT silliness. (Remember when 2003 Raph kept hitting Michelangelo before he could say "Cowabunga"?) I know the cartoon was supposed to reflect the Mirage comic more, but the 2003 version seemed too focused on being serious just to distinguish itself from the OT rather than establishing its own unique identity.

Since TMNT had now two different animated extremes of humor and seriousness, this 2012 CGI version had no where else to go but...in the middle somewhere just to make itself "different" from the other 2 previous versions.

One thing though you have to consider is that Nickelodeon, is FOR younger kids (5-9 years old) rather than the OT and 2003 version which could appeal to older kids up to 12 years old. In the 2003 version, the TMNT came across as young adults in their early 20s in both behavior and size (almost 'roided looking at times). In the OT version, the characters legitimately looked and acted like mid-teens (15-17 years old). In this Nick version, they seem more like "Tweenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (around 10-13 years old) and since they are closer to their demographic its much more appealing.

Another aspect to consider is the size of the Nickelodeon channel itself promoting the show, its a powerful cable station unlike 4Kids CW which was a small network station, but it doesn't have the huge public audience like CBS/network syndication did (and FCC regulations) as with the OT. I don't think the appeal and success of this 2012 CGI version is a "surprise" to anyone since the TMNT brand has proven itself before in previous incarnations and movies unlike the OT which was COMPLETELY new/revolutionary to the general public (outside of the underground comic world) that made it so phenomenal.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by JLS

In my opinion, the 2003 TMNT version was just...eh, okay...because the tone seemed too dedicated to prove itself as being "too cool" for the OT silliness. (Remember when 2003 Raph kept hitting Michelangelo before he could say "Cowabunga"?) I know the cartoon was supposed to reflect the Mirage comic more, but the 2003 version seemed too focused on being serious just to distinguish itself from the OT rather than establishing its own unique identity.

What are you talking about? The 2003 series was meant to reflect the modern action cartoons as seen in the DC superhero shows, Gargoyles, etc. There's a reason its considered one of the best cartoons of the 2000's.

Since TMNT had now two different animated extremes of humor and seriousness, this 2012 CGI version had no where else to go but...in the middle somewhere just to make itself "different" from the other 2 previous versions.

This I'll agree with.

[TMNT-Leonardo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What are you talking about? The 2003 series was meant to reflect the modern action cartoons as seen in the DC superhero shows, Gargoyles, etc. There's a reason its considered one of the best cartoons of the 2000's.

It is? Because I thought it was ok, but not great.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The 2003 series was meant to reflect the modern action cartoons as seen in the DC superhero shows, Gargoyles, etc.

it did have things in common with them, but i don't think it was as good as those...well, not as good as the DCAU at least...i havent watched Gargoyles in prolly over 15 years. (which is something i should rectify soon...)

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

There's a reason its considered one of the best cartoons of the 2000's.

is it really, though?

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What are you talking about? The 2003 series was meant to reflect the modern action cartoons as seen in the DC superhero shows, Gargoyles, etc. There's a reason its considered one of the best cartoons of the 2000's.

uh... no. The first season (at least) tried too hard to show off that 'this ain't the 80's toon', instead of just ignoring the past and doing its own thing. I kinda think the lurking in the shadows, actual martial arts fighting and Shredder being scary was more than enough without throwing in the 'stop saying Cowabunga!!!' bit.

I think once they started um... kinda/sorta adapting the Mirage comics storylines (Shredder Strikes Back/Return to New York) and became more of its own with Chrell, the Battle Nexus and so forth, it completely became its own entity and stopped focusing on 'being way more cool than the 80's' version.

[Avatar Yuffie]

IIRC Avatar the Last Airbender, Ben 10 (this one has the most toys available in my local toy store) and Justice League got the attention of the 2000 kids.

I don't know if this version of TMNT can compete with Adventure Time though.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

IIRC Avatar the Last Airbender, Ben 10 (this one has the most toys available in my local toy store) and Justice League got the attention of the 2000 kids.

I don't know if this version of TMNT can compete with Adventure Time though.

i dont have cable...do adventure time and ninja turtles air in the same time-slot?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

is it really, though?

Are you joking? When it was airing for the first time it was critically acclaimed and put on the same level as the DC cartoons that were airing at the time.

Granted the show lost a bit of its quality in the last two seasons, but the show was considered excellent for the majority of its run.

[The Stryker]

I think other than not airing at the same time they're just two completely different shows.

Adventure Time is hitting on a bunch of levels right now. They got kids, teens, parents and the internet/hipster crowd. It's kind of amazing. We'll have to see if Turtles can catch up in terms of sheer awareness and popularity but they aren't in competition.

[Coola Yagami]

oddly enough, kids loved Fast Forward even though most of us fans hated it.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

oddly enough, kids loved Fast Forward even though most of us fans hated it.

Most fans got over their hatred once they saw Season 5 though. The initial hate was just from Season 5 being skipped and the animation taking a hit.