How is that Leonardo manage to not kill anybody?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

He's just really good with swords

[Powder]

I wasn't aware being 'really good with swords' meant you couldn't get any kills.

[Leo656]

It is kinda frustrating in some media how Leo has to just stand there holding two swords sharpened to a razor's edge... and resorts to awkwardly drop-kicking bad guys instead.

It's like in Thundercats (original), where Lion-O has this awesome sword (that actually gets bigger and more powerful when it's required and things get "tense"... absolutely NO subtext there, eh? ), and it's the only thing that can dispatch the main villain, but instead of defeating said villain in the natural way of stabbing him with said sword, Mumm-Ra has to SEE HIS REFLECTION IN IT instead. It's like, F*CK, man, instead of giving the main hero a f*cking sword in the first place, you may as well have given him an enchanted mirror as his main weapon and just circumvented the censorship issues altogether!

There's a good way to get around it with Leonardo, though. Since in most incarnations he can't kill anyone or even seriously injure them with his weapon, I think he should mostly fight hand-to-hand and only break out the swords when fighting defensively OR when sh*t's getting seriously real. It makes sense to me: He's of a more advanced skill level than his brothers, so being able to match most foes even if they're armed is no stretch. He also carries the most deadly weapon, and his code of honor would make him very aware of the weight and consequences of using them to injure or kill, so in my mind he might hesitate to use them unless absolutely necessary. Even in the TMNT comics where he does kill, he's usually not in a hurry to do it.

I think that could make Leo's character even more bad-ass. Having him run around with swords he rarely gets to use effectively is kind of lame, especially when it limits him to simply kicking bad guys around. Having him be a more than capable bare-handed fighter, and only pull out the swords in "Awwww, sh*t, now it's on" kind of scenarios would be a subtle change to the character that would help get around a lot of those little issues of how he rarely gets to use them. What a concept: a way to cave in to censorship while simultaneously making the character even cooler. You'd think it'd be impossible, but nah.

I mean, yeah, obviously it's one of those "We're just not supposed to think about it" kind of things, but I can't help it, I DO think about it.

[Coola Yagami]

I do kinda hate how sometimes the Turtles' weapons are kinda like their 'super power'. For being highly trained martial artists, they're usually defenseless whenever whey lose them.

The cartoons make it worse by making Raph and Leo defenseless without their weapons.... and then when they finally recover their blades, they proceed to..... kick their enemies around... which is something they could have done without holding their weapons....

[Leo656]

Yeah, totally agree Yagami. It's like they're neutered without their weapons, sometimes. I could almost see that with Mikey, since he tends to rely on his the most and loves to show off, but not with Leo and Raph, who I've always considered to be the most capable fighters of the four. I mean Raph's weapon is almost useless anyway for the purposes of cartoons, since you practically have to be standing on top of him for him to use it. He's another guy who should just go around punching guys out, breaking arms and whatnot.

In my head I almost see Raphael more as a street brawler than a martial-arts fighter, anyway. Like this dude I went to high school with; he was a black belt, he could do all kinds of wicked cool and fancy stuff, but in a fight he was just as quick to headbutt someone in their face or hard-knuckle 'em in the eyeball, because he was a d*ck like that. I see Raph being the same: He HAS all the martial arts skills, and he can use them, but is just as likely to brawl or steamroll someone if he can, because he's a big ball of rage. That's how I'd write him, anyway. Rather than let his weapons be en essential extension of his ability, and having him be helpless without them, Raphael really shouldn't need them at all, honestly.

I mean, if we're really getting deep into it, then none of them should really *need* to use their weapons to fight, but that's a whole other argument. I "get" that in addition to helping tell the characters apart, having them hold their weapons at times helps "sell" the illusion of action even when the action is sparse or not exciting in that moment. But it's lame when one of them loses their weapon and suddenly they forget how to fight. It's always bothered me. A lot. Like when Superman loses his powers and the writers make him all weak, as if he DIDN'T learn how to box from Wildcat or anything. The sudden impotence is not consistent with the character's established backstory and skill level in either case.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, totally agree Yagami. It's like they're neutered without their weapons, sometimes. I could almost see that with Mikey, since he tends to rely on his the most and loves to show off, but not with Leo and Raph, who I've always considered to be the most capable fighters of the four. I mean Raph's weapon is almost useless anyway for the purposes of cartoons, since you practically have to be standing on top of him for him to use it. He's another guy who should just go around punching guys out, breaking arms and whatnot.

In my head I almost see Raphael more as a street brawler than a martial-arts fighter, anyway. Like this dude I went to high school with; he was a black belt, he could do all kinds of wicked cool and fancy stuff, but in a fight he was just as quick to headbutt someone in their face or hard-knuckle 'em in the eyeball, because he was a d*ck like that. I see Raph being the same: He HAS all the martial arts skills, and he can use them, but is just as likely to brawl or steamroll someone if he can, because he's a big ball of rage. That's how I'd write him, anyway. Rather than let his weapons be en essential extension of his ability, and having him be helpless without them, Raphael really shouldn't need them at all, honestly.

I mean, if we're really getting deep into it, then none of them should really *need* to use their weapons to fight, but that's a whole other argument. I "get" that in addition to helping tell the characters apart, having them hold their weapons at times helps "sell" the illusion of action even when the action is sparse or not exciting in that moment. But it's lame when one of them loses their weapon and suddenly they forget how to fight. It's always bothered me. A lot. Like when Superman loses his powers and the writers make him all weak, as if he DIDN'T learn how to box from Wildcat or anything. The sudden impotence is not consistent with the character's established backstory and skill level in either case.

I agree. I always figured Leo should have epic martial arts skills even unarmed, and Raph would be a cool fist fighter. Mikey should as well, or at least be able to use his athleticism to make him hard to fight. Again, it's not like he loses the ability to do all those flips if he loses his nunchucks.

As for your friend, I think it's more 'in a real fight there isn't time to waste to show off fancy moves' than him being a dick. I once knew a dude in training telling me that as cool as they look in the movies, you'll hardly ever use an actual jumpkick in a real fight.

[Leo656]

No, he was a dick. We were good friends for a really long time but at his core he was a serious dick who was not above taking a cheap shot on someone. He once punt-kicked a guy four times in the nuts just to prove a point (the "point" being that yes, he was that kind of special guy). He literally just stood there waiting for the kid to stagger up, tears in his eyes, then soccer-punted him right in the yam bag again. And we all just kind of stood there watching it in disbelief. The other kid started the fight, but that went beyond "escalation" into... well... "being a dick", I guess.

Especially because he could have won that fight in about a hundred other ways, he just chose the absolute most sadistic way possible without being brought up on charges.

Would it surprise anyone to know he also was a huge Raphael fan?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

ROFLMAO!! Nope, not surprising at all.

[ryukenden]

Yes Leo does hold the most lethal weapons and it's a shame we never see him hack anyone to pieces on screen. Because they can't let the kiddies see that. Maybe in the next movie, maybe.

[DaVinci]

Originally Posted by CowabungaMikey

Actually, in the first episode of the OT, Leo wanted to kill a Foot Soldier, before he knew it was a robot. Heard this from another user.

It's ambiguous, since it happens a moment after Raph's, "Clang? Did you just say clang?" line.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Originally Posted by Powder

He's killed in the comics, that's where it counts.

Originally Posted by whatswiththeheadbands?

He's just really good with swords

I would say it is a mix of this....but in a different wording than super good...



more like he is well trained enough to not kill unless it calls for it,

think of it in most cases Karate,martial arts, whatever form of fighting are taught with the idea of it being for self defense never to escalate a battle

Leo has shown he is a master swordsman, and many times with a flick of a wrist could kill many foes he just chooses not too

one example i like is during screw attacks tmnt battle royal, they mention the Leo and Raph battle from the 2007 movie and how Leo had many chances to straight up kill his brother but never did

[Mr_riddler]

This panel says everything, Calm, machine-like, like his sensei.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Originally Posted by Mr_riddler

This panel says everything, Calm, machine-like, like his sensei.

What happens when you read this right after waking up....Leo is Clam

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Mr_riddler

This panel says everything, Calm, machine-like, like his sensei.

Spoiler:

He clearly kills the first guy, the other just gets kicked.

[Leofan26]

I like the idea of him learning some sort of a sword trick to where he doesn't need to kill unless in an emergency.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by TheHeroTurtle

think of it in most cases Karate,martial arts, whatever form of fighting are taught with the idea of it being for self defense never to escalate a battle

That's fine and dandy in conventional martial arts. But in sword arts, "self defense" is cutting down the other guy before he cut you down.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by DaVinci

It's ambiguous, since it happens a moment after Raph's, "Clang? Did you just say clang?" line.

But he wasn't near Raph, I don't think, besides, Raph wouldn't have known about the clang if he hadn't stabbed that Foot Soldier with his sai. I'm going with Leo slicing prior to knowing it was a robot...to make him more badass.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

I willing to go with a theory that he carries two swords, a Iaito and a real Katana. Your enemy is not going to have time inspect them see if it's fake or not so it then gives the swordsman an advantage in making the enemy cautious and if anything goes wrong you'll have the katana to use real lethal force.

I like this theory. That would explian why Leo sometimes just use the one sword. I get that censorship caused this issue but your theory makes it more interesting.

[Raphaeline]

I'd prefer a cartoon where the turtles can kill and really use their weapons like in the original comics.

It's obvious that Leo doesn't kill with his blades in the cartoons because they don't want to show violence to kids.

But he cuts the Krang robots.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Roland

I like this theory. That would explian why Leo sometimes just use the one sword. I get that censorship caused this issue but your theory makes it more interesting.

Also in the nick cartoon of episode of "I Think His Name is Baxter Stockman" when Leo sneak back home, one of his swords was broken.