Who is your favorite Robin?

[Leo656]

That's why I didn't like him having a son, and why I don't like how the New 52 DCU implies he's only been Batman (and still had all these Robins) in just a few years. Batman, Superman, and most other comics characters have traditionally been "Eternally 30-ish", according to the unwritten "rules" of Comic Book Time. But it's still kind of believable that if he was, say, 22 or so when he became Batman, 23 when he met Dick, and Dick was about 13, that enough time could have passed to have Dick grow up to be Nightwing, Jason to be Robin for about a year or so in "comics time" before getting killed, and Tim to have been Robin for a couple years, and still have Bruce be 33 or 34. It's a slight stretch, but it's loosely believable. Adding Damien (conceived in secret and artificially aged in a test tube or not) stretches the credibility of it all, and DC's new "He's only been Batman for 5 years and is about 25-26, but still had 4 or 5 Robins" makes it completely impossible.

I too thought Tim should have stayed as Robin a little longer, at least. He was only pushed aside to make room for Damien back when DC let Grant Morrison do whatever he wanted, and because the comics of the time were making lots of references to "Kingdom Come" so they wanted to push the "Red Robin" character and Tim was available. It made sense story-wise, but I didn't find any of it necessary. Between 1992 and 2007 they had established Tim not just as a good character, but a prominent MAIN character of the entire DCU. I found Damien a weak substitute, as there was nothing "wrong" with the status quo. Tim had a great run, but I felt it ended prematurely.

[Gin Rummy]

Dick Grayson. Also, at the risk of sounding weird, I prefer Robin to be younger. I Hate it when they make him 17+ & Batman's peer. IMO He is Batman's sidekick not partner.

But Batman with any Robin is better than no Robin at all.

[Leo656]

See, I'm the opposite, in that having Robin be too young (10-12) and being merely a "sidekick" isn't too far from being a "decoy", to me ... but I think 18 is too old, too, and that's about how old Dick was when he became Nightwing, anyways, if I'm not mistaken. Tim was around 13-14 at his peak, I think, and that seems about right. Too young, and it's "Why are you having a child jump onto guys with guns?", but too old and it's "Why is this kid still a sidekick and not his own man by now?"

[Jester]

Well, isn't he supposed to be a "teen sidekick"?

[Leo656]

I'unno, I find "sidekick" pretentious. Especially when the sidekick in question is established as being independently capable regardless of their age. Again, what's the difference between "sidekick" and "decoy", really?

Besides, Batman himself almost never refers to Robin as a "sidekick", only others do, usually in a condescending manner. Batman almost always calls Robin his "partner", at least in more recent times. Because Batman's not a total douche. Not to his "sidekicks", anyways.

[Zulithe]

10yo sidekick is not too young for batman. And with Damian there is a backstory to support it, he's not any kid off the street. I like seeing Batman with younger sidekicks because... Batman is NOT sane, and that's part of what I like about him. Having such a young kid at his side helps to emphasis that. Few heroes would put a child at such risk but Batman is in that unique position.

I don't think New 52 bats sucks at all, only that the timeline is hard to work out. DC could have went further in consolidating it down if they wanted to rework the timeline. Really though you can't view comic timelines the same as real world timelines because time doesn't work the same way in their universe. For me that's a good enough catch-all explanation and doesn't force us to rewrite history too dramatically when editorial teams decide to make big changes to the ages of characters and whatnot.

If it ruins it for you, you need to understand that comics aren't like history, they are a mythology that is under constant revision and reinvention. If you do enough research into historical mythology or even Abrahamic religions you see the exact same thing. I find it more interesting to examine how things have changed over the years and where they may be going instead of focusing on "hey what do you mean all of this supposedly happened in only 10-12 years!? That's impossible!" DC can change this at any time they see fit, too. So if it actually doesn't make any sense within the context of the universe they can make further alterations.

Now as for the actual storylines in New 52, Court of Owls and Death in the Family were pretty strong. And Goddamn I love Capullo's art.

Anyway only partially linked to New 52 Batman is this excellent episode of Kevin Smith's Fat Man on Batman where he interviews Grant Morrison Pt 1 Pt 2 ... if you like Batman in any shape or form you should check out the other eps in this pod as well.

[ZariusTwo]

I've always liked Damien, but then I love it when superheroes have kids, and no matter what the bigwigs who like to keep the status quoe nice and tidy say and do, people always gravitate to legacy heroes and at times even prefer they carry the ball over the original guard. Sadly, Morrison himself used Damien as a commentary on why Batman should never have kids and took him from us when he was ripe with potential and other writers were really starting to get comfortable with him.

I just wish Bruce and Selina would get hitched and conceive a proper Earth 1 Helena though.

[Turo602]

John Blake!...*shivers* I think I died a little inside for even thinking that. Dick Grayson all the way.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I just wish Bruce and Selina would get hitched and conceive a proper Earth 1 Helena though.

I always perferred iconic and disliked legacy with exception to Wally West.If something is classic why mess it up? Along with that characters most notable romance.Bruce/Selina are forever will they/won't they and would be fun to have married. Its out of fashion for heroes to marry but I agree it would be great to happen.

[CyberCubed]

The reason people don't like Batman with kid sidekicks is it doesn't make sense why Batman would risk the life of a kid in fights.

I mean if you're going to take out a bunch of thugs with guns, why would you bring a long a 10-11 year old kid dressed like a circus acrobat? It also contradicts the dark colors of Batman's suit that keeps him in the shadows.

Young Robin works better with the Teen Titans, not with Batman.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I always perferred iconic and disliked legacy with exception Wally West.If something is classic why mess it up? Along with that characters most notable romance.Bruce/Selina are forever will they/won't they and would be fun have married. Its out of fashion for heroes to marry but I agree it would be great to happen.

I've always sort of envisioned that if the pre-52 universe were intact, the two would either be married by now or at least in a steady relationship since it seemed they were working together much more closely. In my head canon where the pre-52 forever lives on the two definitely do get together but remain active crime fighters and they get Selina's Helena back, the Slam Bradely thing is retconned and they raise her and Damien up together (yeah, Damien wouldnt die if I were steering the car).

While it's true superheroe marraiges are not in style, Batman being married could very much be a trend-setter since it's rarely happened except in throway au earths, and even then something downbeat always happens to him if he is happily hitched, either he dies or Selina dies, and Helena's left on her own, that sort of s*it.

I suppose the reason I prefer legacy heroes is because it's nice to see where iconic heroes end up after the pinnacle of their careers. I liked seeing Peter Parker move on from Spidey and have his happy ending in the Spider-Girl books for example, it's one of the only two continuites where he's actually pretty well off.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The reason people don't like Batman with kid sidekicks is it doesn't make sense why Batman would risk the life of a kid in fights.

I mean if you're going to take out a bunch of thugs with guns, why would you bring a long a 10-11 year old kid dressed like a circus acrobat? It also contradicts the dark colors of Batman's suit that keeps him in the shadows.

Young Robin works better with the Teen Titans, not with Batman.

Hey moron, unless your referring to the ABYSMAL All-Star Batman and Robin, all the members of the bat family chose to go with Batman and fight crime, he didn't draft these kids into his own personal war without any fighting experience.

[That Matt Guy]

Dick Grayson when done in the tradition of the Adam West series.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Jason Todd. I like a tragic character.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ObiWanFan4life

Hey moron, unless your referring to the ABYSMAL All-Star Batman and Robin, all the members of the bat family chose to go with Batman and fight crime, he didn't draft these kids into his own personal war without any fighting experience.

Are you an idiot? I know that, I'm just saying in a real world context it wouldn't make sense. Same reason Nolan didn't want Robin to be used in the trilogy.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Are you an idiot? I know that, I'm just saying in a real world context it wouldn't make sense. Same reason Nolan didn't want Robin to be used in the trilogy.

Well a lot of things in comics wouldn't make sense in a "real life context".

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ObiWanFan4life

Well a lot of things in comics wouldn't make sense in a "real life context".

Even if its a comic the idea of Batman fighting with a kid sidekick has looked off in recent years. Hence Damian's death making this look more obvious, a child was killed in the line of duty, regardless of his backstory.

The super powered children in the Teen Titans don't matter as much, as they're stronger than normal humans.

[Leo656]

No need to call names, cats. We're having a discussion, here. Is someone's opinion on the plausibility of goddamn ROBIN worth calling someone a moron over? C'mon.

[Candy Kappa]

A good Robin is a dead Robin.

I kid, I kid. Dick if I had to choose

[ObiWanFan4life]

I'd have to say, Dick Grayson.