Now that Retromutagen has been discovered...

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by TurtleMaster4

The problem for him is this: what if shredder makes a mutant more powerful than him? One who could take him down with ease, once and for all? What would shredder do, he can't de-mutate them. Would he drink some mutagen and become The Super Shredder?

Well, we thought Bradford would be pretty powerful after his second mutation. A couple of us even theorized that he as Rahzar would try to challenge Shredder for the Foot leadership, but sadly he never did and he got progressively nerfed, especially after Tigerclaw showed up. Plus I doubt Shredder would turn himself into Super-Shredder, that's a bit of a stretch for him because he'd have to really doubt his abilities, which I don't think he does. Also I don't think he'd want to become a 'freak.'

[victory_angel]

Now that Karai's mutated, I could see a moment where Leo is pressuring Donnie to take the retromutagen. And then when Donnie reminds Leo he's working on it as fast as he can but he is going to need to be patient.

And then Leo sticks his foot in his mouth and says "If you hadn't wasted your first batch on April's father we wouldn't be having this argument!"

[victory_angel]

Baxter Stockman's ego makes him believe that he's a lot more competent then he actually is. And being mutated into a fly his intelligence is slowly going. So the knowledge that one of the Turtles can make Re

Rahzar wants to be human again as does Fishface. Rahzar also knows that Shredder wants a way to return Karai to normal. As such he can't return to human without tipping off Shredder that he has found away to turn human behind his back.

And given that animatic of the mutations of Bebop and Rocksteady, those guys are going to want to have a way to return to human.

So I would believe that Rahzar will be paying Donnie a lot of attention. So that way when Donnie has the retromutagen with him, Rahzar can take it from him and injure Donnie or someone in a way that everyone would have to worry more about him then the Retromutagen.

I don't see Shredder keeping Donnie prisoner and forcing him into making Retromutagen.

Because 1. Shredder doesn't trust anyone. Anyone who sides with him are tools and weapons. Not friends. And he is willing to throw them out with the trash when they no longer have a purpose to fill. So he knows Donnie wouldn't just make Retromutagen for him. If Donnie's bros are also taken prisoner and every time he stalls one of them suffers. That's another story but that is more fanfiction then anything.

2. Donnie is more likely to omit that he needs April's DNA for the Retromutagen to work. That way her life isn't put in jeopardy.

3. Donnie is more of a threat to Shredder's mutant army. And having someone who is able to create a way reverse mutations would give the Turtles more of an advantage then anything. And often in battle tactics it's a wise idea to take out the healers first not the leaders. So it would make more sense for Shredder to order a contract out on Donnie's life if not eliminate him himself.

[supersonicshion]

I wondered why there was so much fuzz about giving Kirby a shot with the whole cannister when a single drop on his head turned him back human.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by supersonicshion

I wondered why there was so much fuzz about giving Kirby a shot with the whole cannister when a single drop on his head turned him back human.

The whole single drop thing was a McGuffin. Realistically one drop my have restored some of Kirby's intellect, but it wouldn't have returned him to human. He was only restored to human because they wanted to show that Donnie had indeed discovered retromutagen and the Writers didn't feel the plot could allow Kirby to remain as a mutant bat.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

The whole single drop thing was a McGuffin. Realistically one drop my have restored some of Kirby's intellect, but it wouldn't have returned him to human. He was only restored to human because they wanted to show that Donnie had indeed discovered retromutagen and the Writers didn't feel the plot could allow Kirby to remain as a mutant bat.

And plus there would been some passive aggressive tension coming from April and possible beginning signs of her depression when accepting that things are never going to be normal but that kind of stuff is not interesting for the writers to explore. More action and less soul searching

[pennydreadful]

They may as well have left Kirby as a mutant bat though, because no sooner does he get turned back to human than he gets Kraanged. When they keep coming up with excuses to keep him off-screen, it makes me wonder why they bothered having him on-screen to start with; why not just have them mentioned but never seen, like Casey's family?

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

They may as well have left Kirby as a mutant bat though, because no sooner does he get turned back to human than he gets Kraanged. When they keep coming up with excuses to keep him off-screen, it makes me wonder why they bothered having him on-screen to start with; why not just have them mentioned but never seen, like Casey's family?

Or this non existing aunt of April that I keep hearing about?

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

The whole single drop thing was a McGuffin. Realistically one drop my have restored some of Kirby's intellect, but it wouldn't have returned him to human. He was only restored to human because they wanted to show that Donnie had indeed discovered retromutagen and the Writers didn't feel the plot could allow Kirby to remain as a mutant bat.

It could be also that the retro-mutagen creates a 'cascade effect,' deconverting all of the mutagen that is present in the body. You don't nee much mutagen to mutate, and thus might not need much retro-mutagen to demutate.

[neatoman]

The Retromutagen is questionable to say the least, but I guess that ultimate purpose of it is to give all the poor sods who got turned into monsters a happy ending, this is a Nick cartoon after all.

[victory_angel]

Shredder could use the retromutagen as a baited carrot to get mutants to work with him. And the people he purposefully mutates he can make it feel like being turned into a human or being a human is a fate worse then death.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Shredder could use the retromutagen as a baited carrot to get mutants to work with him. And the people he purposefully mutates he can make it feel like being turned into a human or being a human is a fate worse then death.

If being human again is a fate worse then death, wouldn't that make the retromutagen bribe kinda useless?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

If being human again is a fate worse then death, wouldn't that make the retromutagen bribe kinda useless?

The only person Shredder truely wants restored to human is Karai.

He knows some of his minions want to be human and yes he can hold the retromutagen as a bribe.

But he can also make his minions feel that they are better off as mutants, so being offered the Retromutagen in order to be returned to human should be a punishment that should be reserved for their enemeies.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

The only person Shredder truely wants restored to human is Karai.

He knows some of his minions want to be human and yes he can hold the retromutagen as a bribe.

But he can also make his minions feel that they are better off as mutants, so being offered the Retromutagen in order to be returned to human should be a punishment that should be reserved for their enemeies.

But then if he makes them think that they're better off as mutant then he has no leverage over them. What's his purpose in keeping most of them mutants if their mind is unstable and making them hard to control?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

But then if he makes them think that they're better off as mutant then he has no leverage over them. What's his purpose in keeping most of them mutants if their mind is unstable and making them hard to control?

Take Steranko and Zeck as an example. He mutates them as punishment for trying to hunt down and capture Karai.

Staranko even tries to convince Shredder that he's be more use to him as a human. And from the sound of things the Shredder threatens to kill them if they don't serve him.

But as humans the Shredder can simply just kill them.

So yeah when you are mutated by the Shredder, you essentually live as a slave of his mutant army. But being human is nothing but death.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Take Steranko and Zeck as an example. He mutates them as punishment for trying to hunt down and capture Karai.

Staranko even tries to convince Shredder that he's be more use to him as a human. And from the sound of things the Shredder threatens to kill them if they don't serve him.

But as humans the Shredder can simply just kill them.

So yeah when you are mutated by the Shredder, you essentually live as a slave of his mutant army. But being human is nothing but death.

It's a little hard to understand but mutating them is a way to psychological dehumanize them? It sounds it justification for him to treat them inhuman, but a man doesn't stop being a man because you say he isn't or rather his biology doesn't determine whether has rights. It's a social construct that you create in your head.

Next thing he going to try to do is make illegal for mutants to do humans things. To not feel human and act like animals. But civilization can not function like this and it fall into a chaotic jungle with no clear order for humans, but it can only work as a ecosystem and without human control, and thus the Shredder will have no clear control.

[victory_angel]

The Shredder's one true love is power and control. And at the end of invasion Tiger Claw had said the City was theirs.

So mutating his followers in a way of dehumanizing them because animals can be controled. And also the humans of the city won't see them as people, they would see them as beasts and monsters.

So in other words

Shredder is the Damyo if not Emperor of New York City.


The unmutated humans of the City are is subjects who live in fear of his wrath.

And his mutant army and his foot bots are his grunts who to enforce the Shredder's law and judgement upon the citizens of the city.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

The Shredder's one true love is power and control. And at the end of invasion Tiger Claw had said the City was theirs.

So mutating his followers in a way of dehumanizing them because animals can be controled. And also the humans of the city won't see them as people, they would see them as beasts and monsters.

So in other words

Shredder is the Damyo if not Emperor of New York City.


The unmutated humans of the City are is subjects who live in fear of his wrath.

And his mutant army and his foot bots are his grunts who to enforce the Shredder's law and judgement upon the citizens of the city.

I don't know why but I'm seeing the parallels of his life and Adolf Hitler's.

[victory_angel]

This episode foreshadowed the Foot eventually discovering that Donnie knows how to make retromutagen.

In the New Opening theme sequence we see Rocksteady and Bebop crashing against the Party Wagon which has both Donnie and Leo in the front seat.

And this episode Donnie mentions twice he has a batch of retromutagen almost ready. And in the fight between the Turtles and Shredder. The Shredder holds Donnie up by his sholder strap and says "You mean nothing to me."

Odds are likely that when Donnie has the retromutagen ready would be the moment that the Shredder learns that donnie is able to create Retromutagen. And it will likely be a mad grab among the villains for it, between those who want to use it for themselves (Most of the foot clan.). And those who are loyal to the Shredder (Tiger Claw...ATM) Perhaps even the Shedder himself.

Unlike the last mad grab for the retromutagen, this one may need two part episode at the least to add to impact of the events.

[VaughnMichael]

I will be very shocked if they don't do a big retromutagen storyline at some point.