Shouldn't Leonardo pair up with Mona Lisa?

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Huzzah

I'm not a fan of pairings or shipping or whatever, just because a female character is utilized, I don't know why people immediately start playing mutant match maker

It's harmless. People do that with fiction in general a lot and if they want to, what does it matter after all? Let them. There's no harm in discussing who should be paired with who.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I know this might earn me a little anger, but the Mona Pairing for Leo DOES make so much freakin' sense, partially because of the name thing, but for other reasons, too. Just because Leo is a dedicated Ninja doesn't mean he will automatically go forthe 'dark ninja types' like Karai and Lotus. If I do get around to my big fanfic idea with the Dragonlord story, I'm pretty sure I'll put mona with leo instead!

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Powder

My vocal dislike for the character aside, why are so many people hung up on playing matchmaker with a bunch of fictional characters? What about a clan of monster assassins makes you want to push two heads together & say "now kiss"? I don't get it. Romance has no place in the TMNT besides Casey & April's situation which is turbulent at best.

I was not even talking about a romantic pairing, but a awesome kick-ass duo!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Powder

How about... no pairing whatsoever? That works for me.

So, basically, you don't like emotional growth or personal relationships of ANY Kind with members of the opposite gender? That makes no sense. They don't live in a vacuum. There are females in their world, they are BOUND to run into at least a few. Why can't they have friendships, etc. with them?

Originally Posted by Powder

My vocal dislike for the character aside, why are so many people hung up on playing matchmaker with a bunch of fictional characters? What about a clan of monster assassins makes you want to push two heads together & say "now kiss"? I don't get it. Romance has no place in the TMNT besides Casey & April's situation which is turbulent at best.

Being "assassins" (which was only true in Mirage anyway) doesn't make them unfeeling, cold-hearted robots. Nor are they "monsters" in the truest sense. They don't harm others needlessly or cause unnecessary destruction, or do any of the things one would attribute to "monsters". They LOOK different, but their outlook seems more human(or humane) than anything. Shredder and other HUMAN villains are more "monsters" than the Turtles themselves are. And why wouldn't they want to experience the same things as everyone else? Even assassins can feel loneliness, or need love, companionship, and acceptance.

Also, they're- what's that word again?- that's right, teenagers. So they already have a lot of emotional needs going on, and having someone who cares for them would naturally be part of that. Family is great, but everyone needs someone they can connect to on a more personal level. Could be platonic, romantic, or even just "friends with benefits". Doesn't really matter, but there's NO reason for it NOT to be there.

Originally Posted by billbot85

I'll probably get a lot of flack for this.

I actually like all three of them, Mona Lisa, Muckman, and Mutagen Man from the FW series. They were all really cool to me. I can see how pairing Mona with Leo would be a funny tongue-in-cheek pun, but he already had a thing going on with Lotus Blossom (now that is a character I didn't care for).

Still, I kinda liked how Raphael and Mona were paired up, I thought they played well off of each other in that episode. I always kinda wanted her to appear in at least another episode or two, but I wouldn't want there to be any serious love story arc going on between her and Raph. Stuff like that was not meant for the FW series IMO.

Ditto. Mona Lisa's outgoing, friendly, and trusting personality seemed to balance out his more cynical, pessimistic outlook in the OT. She would work even better with Raph from, say, Nick or 2K3, perhaps being the one who could calm his darker moods, or bring out his "softer" side. (IE- like when he was having tea with the old lady in Touch and GO, or like when his protective streak came out in Lone Raph and Cub.)

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

So, basically, you don't like emotional growth or personal relationships of ANY Kind with members of the opposite gender? That makes no sense. They don't live in a vacuum. There are females in their world, they are BOUND to run into at least a few. Why can't they have friendships, etc. with them?





Being "assassins" (which was only true in Mirage anyway) doesn't make them unfeeling, cold-hearted robots. Nor are they "monsters" in the truest sense. They don't harm others needlessly or cause unnecessary destruction, or do any of the things one would attribute to "monsters". They LOOK different, but their outlook seems more human(or humane) than anything. Shredder and other HUMAN villains are more "monsters" than the Turtles themselves are. And why wouldn't they want to experience the same things as everyone else? Even assassins can feel loneliness, or need love, companionship, and acceptance.

Also, they're- what's that word again?- that's right, teenagers. So they already have a lot of emotional needs going on, and having someone who cares for them would naturally be part of that. Family is great, but everyone needs someone they can connect to on a more personal level. Could be platonic, romantic, or even just "friends with benefits". Doesn't really matter, but there's NO reason for it NOT to be there.





Ditto. Mona Lisa's outgoing, friendly, and trusting personality seemed to balance out his more cynical, pessimistic outlook in the OT. She would work even better with Raph from, say, Nick or 2K3, perhaps being the one who could calm his darker moods, or bring out his "softer" side. (IE- like when he was having tea with the old lady in Touch and GO, or like when his protective streak came out in Lone Raph and Cub.)

Yeah I never really understood why people think none of the tmnt should be going out with any females? Because their mutants? That doesn't make much sense. There's no reason why they can't go out with females that are humans, mutant or even aliens, whether it's in one of the shows or the comics. Shouldn't matter to me. I feel like at least ONE of the turtles should have a female companion and not just have Casey and April go out together.

In the original cartoon, I remember Mikey having a crush on the Neutrino Kala and it was mutual but too bad it never went anywhere.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

Yeah I never really understood why people think none of the tmnt should be going out with any females? Because their mutants? That doesn't make much sense. There's no reason why they can't go out with females that are humans, mutant or even aliens, whether it's in one of the shows or the comics. Shouldn't matter to me. I feel like at least ONE of the turtles should have a female companion and not just have Casey and April go out together.

In the original cartoon, I remember Mikey having a crush on the Neutrino Kala and it was mutual but too bad it never went anywhere.

I never understood why, Some fans are against the Turtles having any sort of female companionship, Believe it or not, The Turtles are more human then we will ever be.

There's the whole Apritello thing going on with the Nick series, and there are a lot of fans who love it.

In the Archie comic, Raph's girlfriend was Ninjara, a Ninja Fox, Sadly they never stayed together, But the two shared a big kiss at the end. And there's nothing wrong with showing a little love.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I never understood why, Some fans are against the Turtles having any sort of female companionship, Believe it or not, The Turtles are more human then we will ever be.

There's the whole Apritello thing going on with the Nick series, and there are a lot of fans who love it.

In the Archie comic, Raph's girlfriend was Ninjara, a Ninja Fox, Sadly they never stayed together, But the two shared a big kiss at the end. And there's nothing wrong with showing a little love.

http://miragelicensing.com/comics/archie/70/4.jpg

Nothing wrong with them showing interest in females. They aren't robots, they're mutated turtles, they have thoughts, feelings and so forth so them being paired up with someone isn't so implausible. They've shown feelings for females multiple times, in the series, comics, movies and so forth. I know in the movies, all of them especially Mikey has an interest in April before she went out with Casey. I never saw Ninjara but I haven't had a chance to see the Archie comic very much. I know of Mona Lisa who Raph was attracted to and Kala who Mike was attracted to. Those romances really should have gone somewhere. I don't like it in fiction where two characters clearly show interest in each other and then nothing happens. They should do something with those pairings.

There is group who would want Casey Jones to be with April and others would want Donatello to be with April, too. As for Leonardo, I think it could work well with Mona Lisa but really she's best being with Raph. It'd be better if Raph was his angry brooding self as opposed to the cynical, sarcastic Raph in the 87 cartoon. That's why I think she should appear in the 2012 cartoon, as Raph is angry and impulsive there.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

^ This. I fully agree on all counts, because I feel like it makes the stories so much richer and realistic if they have those kinds of feeling, whether anything ever comes out of it or not. It doesn't even have to be full-on romance, because even an unrequieted love can have a HUGE emotional impact on the characters and their stories. Just show that they HAVE feelings, for gosh sakes!

[Cryomancer]

If the names were meant to mean anything or make sense, Donatello would have been named Leonardo. But they don't, because that's how names work. You are given a name at birth (or mutation, I guess), and that name has nothing to do with the type of person you become.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

^ This. I fully agree on all counts, because I feel like it makes the stories so much richer and realistic if they have those kinds of feeling, whether anything ever comes out of it or not. It doesn't even have to be full-on romance, because even an unrequieted love can have a HUGE emotional impact on the characters and their stories. Just show that they HAVE feelings, for gosh sakes!

Thanks! There's nothing wrong with Turtles having feelings for females, whether the female is a human, mutant or an alien. It's just nice to see that kind of side to the character, allowing more possibilities on how the character can develop. I always like it to develop as much as possible, but even if it doesn't last too long, it's still nice to see. I never understood where this "Turtles can't go out with girls" rule came from, but I find the notion absurd. They should have girlfriends.

I could imagine how lonely it must be for them not to. They have their master Splinter, their human friends April and Casey and even mutant friends like Mondo Gecko and other dimensional friends like Usagi, but they are still misunderstood, rejected and even feared by civilization. Many human females would be misunderstood by them, and they once in a while run into a mutant or an alien female, so they don't have much opportunity to find other females to go out with, so imagine how lonely they must be. Wouldn't it be nice, after living underground and fighting all this crime, for them to actually have girlfriends? Female companions who understand them and support them? That's something I think would make the story interesting.

[Klunk1234]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I know this might earn me a little anger, but the Mona Pairing for Leo DOES make so much freakin' sense, partially because of the name thing, but for other reasons, too. Just because Leo is a dedicated Ninja doesn't mean he will automatically go forthe 'dark ninja types' like Karai and Lotus. If I do get around to my big fanfic idea with the Dragonlord story, I'm pretty sure I'll put mona with leo instead!

None of the turtles match their Renaissance artists' namesake. If they would have matched, Donnie would be the leader; Mikey, the hothead; Leo, the genius and Raph, the youngest.

[ssjup81]

I really liked Mona Lisa's character and it was because of Raphael. He was my fav (along with Mikey) back then because of their dry-witted, sarcasti/ironic humor, which is my favorite style of humor. Smart alleck characters have always appealed to me. THIS is what made me a fan of her. Shipping had nothing to do with it. Sucks she wasn't brought back in the OT.

Now...if they brought her back, I'd hope she'd still have that type of personality. Witty, sarcastic, a smart ass, sassy, etc.

[Metalwolf]

Some of the reason I don't like her character is because I don't like her being a mutated human. If she was just an ordinary lizard or whatever that was mutated, I'd might like her a lot more.

Half of the fan drawings I see of her paired up with Raph make me want to punch something, especially when they are shown with an egg (their unhatched offspring) which really looks too twee for my tastes. This is another reason I don't like Mona Lisa.

Third reason is (and very important) many females introduced rarely are kept out of some sort of romantic relationships, whereas it's often optional for guys. This would be no different for Mona, she'd be paired up with something. Relationships are often forced on a female character in ways that males aren't and often defines them, either it's in a male-female relationship or lesbian one, whereas if a male is not paired up with a woman he often can remain single. Why can't females have the option to remain simply single in ways that male characters can?

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

Some of the reason I don't like her character is because I don't like her being a mutated human. If she was just an ordinary lizard or whatever that was mutated, I'd might like her a lot more.

Half of the fan drawings I see of her paired up with Raph make me want to punch something, especially when they are shown with an egg (their unhatched offspring) which really looks too twee for my tastes. This is another reason I don't like Mona Lisa.

Third reason is (and very important) many females introduced rarely are kept out of some sort of romantic relationships, whereas it's often optional for guys. This would be no different for Mona, she'd be paired up with something. Relationships are often forced on a female character in ways that males aren't and often defines them, either it's in a male-female relationship or lesbian one, whereas if a male is not paired up with a woman he often can remain single. Why can't females have the option to remain simply single in ways that male characters can?

I personally don't mind if she was a mutated lizard or a mutated human. A mutant is a mutant after all. I wouldn't let fan drawings be a reason to dislike a character. I've seen characters I like depicted in ways I didn't like but that didn't make me stop liking the character.

As far as single character go. April was single in the 87 cartoon. So was Irma. I wish that when they introduce a female for the main characters, they develop more. Because it's actually kind of strange that the fan art has shown more romance between these characters the show itself. Now it doesn't have to be a full blown romance where they get married or have kids, but having female companions is something I'd like to see.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

I personally don't mind if she was a mutated lizard or a mutated human. A mutant is a mutant after all. I wouldn't let fan drawings be a reason to dislike a character. I've seen characters I like depicted in ways I didn't like but that didn't make me stop liking the character.

As far as single character go. April was single in the 87 cartoon. So was Irma. I wish that when they introduce a female for the main characters, they develop more. Because it's actually kind of strange that the fan art has shown more romance between these characters the show itself. Now it doesn't have to be a full blown romance where they get married or have kids, but having female companions is something I'd like to see.

True, There's nothing wrong with having a female companion, whether it be for a little romance or not, After all, Despite the Turtles being mutants, They are more human then we think, And they have the same kind of feelings that normal humans have.

You can have romance with the characters without the shipping. Though in the Archie Comic, There was a storyline that was set 100 years in the future, and future Raph was married to a mutant Coyote name Mezcaal, I don't know how far there relationship went, But they slept together on the same bed, Some would argue that's shipping right there.

If it happened in the comics, At some point, One of the Turtles, particularly Raph gonna have some sort of relationship, and it's looking like its going to be with Alopex.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Klunk1234

None of the turtles match their Renaissance artists' namesake. If they would have matched, Donnie would be the leader; Mikey, the hothead; Leo, the genius and Raph, the youngest.

This lol. Obviously Laird and Eastman didn't bother to be accurate about it.

As for Mona Lisa, she was a pretty alright one-shot character. I liked how she and Raphael played off each other. Romance? I'd be okay with it if just teased or implied since the FW series wasn't a romance. But I didn't like it how Mona Lisa was originally a human. It makes things a bit creepier. Then again, they dropped the Mike and Kala thing after the 2nd Neutrino episode, so who knows what turn it would have taken.

I was surprised that Raphael Meets His Match was her only appearance and she never got mentioned again.

As for her fanbase... yea a lot are furries and such sadly. But if you let fans of a character or franchise ruin them then you're gonna hate every work of fiction out there.

[IndigoErth]

Really I'm not sure why it would be necessary for them to match their namesakes in personality or what ever. Doubtful the artists were the first with those names, and doubtful that most of the people in the world with those names are artists or have any similarity. Why expect mutant Turtles to.

Might make more sense to look at the meanings of the names themselves...but how many people really match theirs anyway. I sure don't with mine. lol

For Leo to need to click with Mona Lisa on some level because of their names is like saying I should date/befriend a guy with the related male version of my name... eh... how about not unless it was a coincidence? I can hear it now, "You only like me for my name!" lol

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Really I'm not sure why it would be necessary for them to match their namesakes in personality or what ever. Doubtful the artists were the first with those names, and doubtful that most of the people in the world with those names are artists or have any similarity. Why expect mutant Turtles to.

Might make more sense to look at the meanings of the names themselves...but how many people really match theirs anyway. I sure don't with mine. lol

For Leo to need to click with Mona Lisa on some level because of their names is like saying I should date/befriend a guy with the related male version of my name... eh... how about not unless it was a coincidence? I can hear it now, "You only like me for my name!" lol

Well, to be fair, all i know is that Leonardo da Vinci was a scientist. I have no idea if Michelangelo was a temperamental guy and if Raphael was a funny laid back guy. I agree that it's not a big deal. There are worse cases of overlooked facts in the TMNT franchise. Like the whole Japanese thing. Eastman and Laird clearly didn't have more than a superficial contact with Japanese culture through martial arts films and never bothered to do some proper research. Although to their defense there's two things that sorta excuse them:

a) The TMNT were meant to be nothing more than a one-shot comic. A joke one. A parody of superhero comics, I think? So obviously they weren't very serious about it from the beginning.

b) This was in the early-mid 80s. No internet. You had to actually spend a whole day at he library to research data for work or school. It's easy to point fingers at them for not making an effort, but nowadays we can access all sorts of information easily with a couple of clicks only and a google search. I doubt a couple of American dudes could easily inform themselves about Japan, its history and culture without actually flying over there.

[Candy Kappa]

Maybe Mona Lisa should be written as a strong, compelling, fully fleshed character, before she turns into a cute-girlfriend-accessory to whatever guy the writer want to hook her up with.


Speaking off matching their name sakes. Real-Life Michelangelo was extremely temperamental and would screw you over big time if you dared to interfere with his art, like Monsignor Biaggio Da Casena, a friend of the Pope did, suggesting that the Last Judgement was obscene with people being naked, and convinced the Pope that the people in the painting s privates had to be covered.

Old Mike was so pissed, he painted Biaggio among the damned as a demon with donkey ears and a snake biting his balls.

[IndigoErth]

Well he was a rather feisty one; would he have fit into today's world, or what.