Pros & cons about TMNT: OotS' failure at the box office

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

If word gets out that it's, at least, better than the last movie, it might hang in theaters for a while. I truly believe this movie is suffering from the reception of the last film, and the drop next weekend won't be very large.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Not everyone watches a new release on the first weekend

Also wondering if opening the weekend or so before most schools close for the summer is a good date to choose. I wouldn't be surprised if some families are saying "next week," after school is out and initial crowds have let up. (Although let me say, a late Sunday night after opening, last showing of the night, is PERFECT if you want it quiet. My mom and I almost had a private screening; thought we would, but three others showed up before it started.)


As for holdouts... yeah, my brother-in-law is interested in checking it out for Bebop and Rocksteady. They only rented the prior film, but was asking last night if I thought it was worth a theater viewing. Very possible many are just waiting to see what others are saying.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Also wondering if opening the weekend or so before most schools close for the summer is a good date to choose. I wouldn't be surprised if some families are saying "next week," after school is out and initial crowds have let up. (Although let me say, a late Sunday night after opening, last showing of the night, is PERFECT if you want it quiet. My mom and I almost had a private screening; thought we would, but three others showed up before it started.)


As for holdouts... yeah, my brother-in-law is interested in checking it out for Bebop and Rocksteady. They only rented the prior film, but was asking last night if I thought it was worth a theater viewing. Very possible many are just waiting to see what others are saying.

[mrmaczaps]

I only saw it because got in free... it was better than the first but it definitely wouldn't hurt my feelings if this version of the TMNT burns to the ground... like Zack said, it hasn't drawn anyone into reading comics... if it had a more traditional looking Turtles (& Casey) then I think it would have been easier for parents to buy their kids comics and the young adult crowd basically the same thing... no tie in for the movie in a comic book format... just plenty of short toys... and we all know how well Playmates does things...

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

* Platinum Dunes deservedly has egg on their face in a very public way.

I haven't really been keeping up with the numbers or anything, but I think PD has had a few pretty high profile failures. I'm sure TMNT2 has a MUCH larger budget, but the Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th reboots were pretty big flops, among several other horror reboots.

It'll be interesting to see where this all goes. TMNT still seems like a very strong brand at the moment. If merch sales are still high, it'll be as easy correlation to see that the film's performance isn't tied to a diminishing brand but subpar product.

Personally, I'd love to see Paramount reboot the franchise with a more Chris Nolan feel, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

[Cryomancer]

Well the turnaround on "reboot with two lame movies, reboot again" on Spider-Man has been pretty quick so who knows, maybe something cool will happen?

Yeah, probably not.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

Well the turnaround on "reboot with two lame movies, reboot again" on Spider-Man has been pretty quick so who knows, maybe something cool will happen?

Yeah, probably not.

5 years between Raimi's garbage and Amazingly bad part 1. Then 3 (technically just 2) years in between the last one and the Marvel takeover.

So yes, it's possible. Either way I hope the IDW series isn't adversely affected.

[ernesth100]

Pros: We'll eventually get the reboot we deserve. Unless Pramount wants to end the trilogy. But they did everything in TMNT 2 so there's kinda to go. In the end considering what this movies making I'd be in serious shock and awe if they did a third. That's company suicide and a massive waste of money as I think Box Office wise it only goes down hill.

Cons: I kinda wanted the TMNT 3 to involve the Triceratons invading the Earth and Shredder creating more mutant animals as a side plot. Maybe Stockman fly and Leatherhead, two of my favorite TMNT mutants.

[Andrew NDB]

I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed. Like I've said ad nauseum, at this point the one thing they haven't tried on the big screen, the one last ace up the sleeve, the last magic trick they can pull before the gig is up is, you guessed it, a spiritual adaptation of the Mirage TMNT. At some point the suits will probably realize that and talk about it... even if it's just in passing before the subject is changed to how they can write a movie around a scene with Turtles escaping from a crashing space shuttle or something.

[sdp]

First movie they don't give two ***** about the internet; get bashed everywhere online. Does pretty well.

Second movie they pander to internet nerds; get praised everywhere online. Does terrible.

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by sdp

First movie they don't give two ***** about the internet; get bashed everywhere online. Does pretty well.

Second movie they pander to internet nerds; get praised everywhere online. Does terrible.

It's tough to build on a terrible foundation.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed. Like I've said ad nauseum, at this point the one thing they haven't tried on the big screen, the one last ace up the sleeve, the last magic trick they can pull before the gig is up is, you guessed it, a spiritual adaptation of the Mirage TMNT. At some point the suits will probably realize that and talk about it... even if it's just in passing before the subject is changed to how they can write a movie around a scene with Turtles escaping from a crashing space shuttle or something.

I'm sure if there is a third one you might have hit it on the head with crashing space shuttle. They could do Triceratons. That would give Michael Bay plenty of lasers and expositions for his liking.

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed.

I don't think it's bombing due to the Fred Wolf elements. Not at all. There was a pretty interesting article on Forbes today about TMNT 2--the trend of really bad franchise starters from well-known properties and their better quality, but under-performing sequels.

Personally, going in with super low expectations, I really enjoyed the B&R/Krang/Technodrome material. For what it was, anyway.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmen...justice-league

[Bry]

Originally Posted by d_osborn

I don't think it's bombing due to the Fred Wolf elements. Not at all. There was a pretty interesting article on Forbes today about TMNT 2--the trend of really bad franchise starters from well-known properties and their better quality, but under-performing sequels.

Personally, going in with super low expectations, I really enjoyed the B&R/Krang/Technodrome material. For what it was, anyway.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmen...justice-league

He makes some very good points about box office trends, though I've gotta raise an eyebrow at him raving about how "improved" this movie is like it's the second coming of Christ, rather than a deeply (and compared to the first movie, similarly) flawed mindless blockbuster that basically doesn't have a plot but is crammed full of fan-service instead. I get the appeal for 30-somethings who grew up with Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang and haven't really followed the property much further than that, but nostalgia alone doesn't make for a good movie. Hell, there've been a ton of compelling arguments about how the actual story of this movie's worse than the last one.

Personally, I don't think it failed because of the Fred Wolf elements, but I think it's proven that those elements can't, and shouldn't, be the main focus of the franchise, and that maybe their appeal isn't as big or as widespread as the studio thought. First the Nick/Fred Wolf crossover episode barely nudged the ratings bar, and now this has severely underperformed after a relentless nostalgia-baiting marketing campaign.

Which is good news, I think. "MEMBA THIS?" is a cheap, short-sighted promo tactic to pin the entire property on. Time to focus on its strengths in character and story. (The two things these movies have completely neglected.)

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by Bry

He makes some very good points about box office trends, though I've gotta raise an eyebrow at him raving about how "improved" this movie is like it's the second coming of Christ, rather than a deeply (and compared to the first movie, similarly) flawed mindless blockbuster that basically doesn't have a plot but is crammed full of fan-service instead. I get the appeal for 30-somethings who grew up with Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang and haven't really followed the property much further than that, but nostalgia alone doesn't make for a good movie. Hell, there've been a ton of compelling arguments about how the actual story of this movie's worse than the last one.

Did we read the same article? I didn't get any second coming of Christ vibes from it at all. Saying the movie is an improvement over the previous isn't saying it's up there with The Godfather and Casablanca or that it's the definitive ,best possible TMNT movie. It's Forbes, not a fan site, not a cinema site. The writer's general thoughts on OOTS match up with pretty much everything I've heard/read from anyone other than some hardcore fans here. I'm assuming most people are approaching OOTS as a actiony kid's film, and in that regards-- it's a fun watch. Anything outside of that is a stretch. Which is a shame because TMNT is capable of so much more...

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

Originally Posted by d_osborn

I haven't really been keeping up with the numbers or anything, but I think PD has had a few pretty high profile failures. I'm sure TMNT2 has a MUCH larger budget, but the Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th reboots were pretty big flops, among several other horror reboots.

It'll be interesting to see where this all goes. TMNT still seems like a very strong brand at the moment. If merch sales are still high, it'll be as easy correlation to see that the film's performance isn't tied to a diminishing brand but subpar product.

Personally, I'd love to see Paramount reboot the franchise with a more Chris Nolan feel, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Actually, their horror films tend to do pretty decently at the box office. The budgets are pretty small so they don't have to be huge 9-figure box office grosses.

[TerranigmaFreak]

Con: We have to watch another origin story again.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Bry

Personally, I don't think it failed because of the Fred Wolf elements, but I think it's proven that those elements can't, and shouldn't, be the main focus of the franchise

Tell that to the Nick show, I'm no fan of that, but it does integrate those elements into it's own complexion well for the most part

Time to focus on its strengths in character and story. (The two things these movies have completely neglected.)

Funny, because most of the praise for this movie have focused on...guess what? Character and story.

But hey, feel free to ignore the facts.

[Bry]

Oy, this guy again.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Tell that to the Nick show, I'm no fan of that, but it does integrate those elements into it's own complexion well for the most part

Except it doesn't stop there. It picks elements out of multiple versions of the property, not just Fred Wolf, and hangs all that on actual story, backstory, and plot lines largely based on the original Mirage comics. Which is why the better episodes of the Nick show have an actual story while these movies really don't.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Funny, because most of the praise for this movie have focused on...guess what? Character and story.

And that praise seems to be in the minority. How many reviews have slagged the movie for effectively having no story, a half-baked (at best) plot, for having paper-thin characters who don't have actual arcs, and whose supposed "development" is just abruptly stated and not actually shown or earned in the story? Because I lost count.

There's more to story than "action set-piece leads to action set-piece leads to action set-piece", and there's more to character than "most of their personalities are intact".

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

But hey, feel free to ignore the facts.

You might want to check your definition of "fact", because it sounds like you're veering into Opinion Town. Here's a handy link.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by d_osborn

Did we read the same article? I didn't get any second coming of Christ vibes from it at all.

Okay, I was being a bit hyperbolic. A bit.

But here are the things he says about the movie in the first three short paragraphs:

• "everything we wanted the first film to be"
• "it served as a perfect template for how to make a crowd-pleasing Justice League movie"
• "it’s filled with creative action and genuine character chemistry"
• "It is as remarkable a 180-degree turn in a franchise the second time out as I can remember"
• "Despite doing everything right..."

He's desperately fawning over the thing, and he's done similar in another column or two recently. Which is fine, he's certainly entitled to his opinion, I'm glad the movie worked for him even if it won't work for me. But based on the wide/general consensus he seems to be vastly overstating this movie's virtues, and comes across as downright emotional about it. Which, for me, cuts into his objectivity a bit... which is strange because the rest of his message it pretty well based in facts and logic, but oh well?

Originally Posted by d_osborn

The writer's general thoughts on OOTS match up with pretty much everything I've heard/read from anyone other than some hardcore fans here.

Really? Because I've seen tons of fiercely negative reviews/reactions all over the place.

[neatoman]

After thinking about it I came to a conclusion as to how using the Fred Wolf cartoon as a blueprint for this movie might have been it's downfall, albeit hardly the only reason, the reason nostalgia doesn't seem to work here:

It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.