The 2012 series brought us what the 1987 series couldn't

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by TLP

Auman-certified shock vaule.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

It's actually what the show's riding on at this point. And that's a huge problem. So yeah, there's something pretty wrong there.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

As Aaron pointed out, yes there is a problem with it. The more you utilize shock value, it becomes less shocking and as a result, less substantial. A good example of how to do shock value right from this show was a good amount of season 1, but I'll use Karai as Miwa as the example here.

I don't know the general consensus if people welcome the decision or are more indifferent to it. Unless you gave attention to detail, the startling revelation was a massive shock in terms of story telling. Also, her mutation in season 2 unless you learned of the news was also rather shocking on it's own merits. That right there is how to do shock value, make us feel surprised and in some ways, emotional in more ways than one.

Compare Karai's fate at the time to Splinter's death in season 3; yes, I myself have significant issues with Annihilation: Earth! but it just felt forced. In Shredder's character, it might make sense but Splinter being axed when the Earth is at stake lessens the death immensely. Then, take into account the whole "time travel is bs" nonsense and it becomes a complicated mess. With how it's presented, Splinter dying holds minimal relevance when you examine the main plot; adding his death supposedly makes the finale the hardest for the Turtles. However, from a viewer's point of view, this is more comedic of how far the stakes can be risen until all meaning is lost.

That's the main reason why nearly all of season 1 and several season 2 episodes are immensely favored over the goofiness seasons 3 and 4 conveyed. No, I have nothing wrong with goofiness, but if you're going to flip a switch and resolve your issues immediately then what's the point?

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by TLP

Auman-certified shock vaule.

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

It's actually what the show's riding on at this point.

Actually, the show is riding on the TMNT brand. Without it, this show wouldn't have at LEAST half of its viewers.

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Compare Karai's fate at the time to Splinter's death in season 3; yes, I myself have significant issues with Annihilation: Earth! but it just felt forced. In Shredder's character, it might make sense but Splinter being axed when the Earth is at stake lessens the death immensely. Then, take into account the whole "time travel is bs" nonsense and it becomes a complicated mess. With how it's presented, Splinter dying holds minimal relevance when you examine the main plot; adding his death supposedly makes the finale the hardest for the Turtles. However, from a viewer's point of view, this is more comedic of how far the stakes can be risen until all meaning is lost.

I disagree. As I said before, "Annihilation Earth" is the standard by which all the other episodes are measured. It's not the best episode of the season or the series but it builds upon what has been before and explores it's themes to their limits. It's like chamber music for heroes and villains. Part 1 exemplifies this perfectly while Part 2 is the carry over.
Compared to Part 1, Part 2 is kind of funny in the fact that it knows how it wants to end (you can tell just by the work that they put into "The Rapture" as I call it) but it doesn't really know how to get there--which is what I blame more than Shredder's act itself. Now, it's a nice (though forced) way to remind us how much he loved Tang Shen (and in a warped way Karai) PLUS it's also a nice touch of continuity towards what Shredder said at the beginning of the S2 finale; but the question still has to be asked: Could he have waited just a sliver of a second after Splinter stops the BHG from activating to strike him down? I mean, this Shredder is a video game, you can't tell me he's going to miss. So in this case, you have a point despite the fact that AE had more than enough to compensate for this shortcoming.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter

I disagree. As I said before, "Annihilation Earth" is the standard by which all the other episodes are measured. It's not the best episode of the season or the series but it builds upon what has been before and explores it's themes to their limits. It's like chamber music for heroes and villains. Part 1 exemplifies this perfectly while Part 2 is the carry over.
Compared to Part 1, Part 2 is kind of funny in the fact that it knows how it wants to end (you can tell just by the work that they put into "The Rapture" as I call it) but it doesn't really know how to get there--which is what I blame more than Shredder's act itself. Now, it's a nice (though forced) way to remind us how much he loved Tang Shen (and in a warped way Karai) PLUS it's also a nice touch of continuity towards what Shredder said at the beginning of the S2 finale; but the question still has to be asked: Could he have waited just a sliver of a second after Splinter stops the BHG from activating to strike him down? I mean, this Shredder is a video game, you can't tell me he's going to miss. So in this case, you have a point despite the fact that AE had more than enough to compensate for this shortcoming.

The Shredder is crazed, selfish, and short sighted. All he desires are acts of vengance for injustices that only he perceives to have happened. Much of which he has brought upon himself.

Hamato Yuuta finds a very young Oroku Saki and raised him as his own out of kindness (or pity)

Shreddrers interpritation: He was abducted by his fathers murderer and raised under false pretence.

In getting vengance against Yoshi he end up killing the woman he loved and disfigured by the fire.

Shredder's interpritation: Tang Shen died because Yoshi poisoned her mind against him.

Shredder kidnaps Karai and raises her as his own forcing her to believe that her mother had been murdered by Hamato Yoshi. Effectivly rasing her to be a living weapon.

Shredder's interpritation: He saved her and raised her as his own out of love for her mother. Because he couldn't allow her to be corrupted by hamato yoshi and he wanted his legacy to be secured.

Shredder has April abducted as bait for Splinter, and delivering her to the kraang so that the Kraang could ensure their take over of Earth.

Shredders Interpritation: April is just bait for Splinter, no care as to why the Kraang need an insignificant little girl.

Shredder has Karai placed in a cage over a vat of mutagen. Accidently cleaves through the chain suspending her over said mutagen when he try to swat Leo into it.

Shredders Interpritation: If Karai's mind hadn't been poisoned by Splnter she wouldn't have been mutated.

so on and so forth

So in his mind every thing that happens around him even the distruction of Earth is a distraction when compaired to his goal of settling his vengnace.

April had warned him that the attack taking place affected all of them including Karai. And if he let the world be destroyed Karai would be destroyed with it.

Shredder complies but then feels his vengence is far too important and kills Yoshi dooming all of the world and its existance. Even afterwards when Tigerclaw is saying "You idiot, do you realize you just doomed us all?"

Shredder is essentually convincing himself that the world is a worthy sacrifice for his vengance. So the death of Splinter wasn't pointless because it shows the depths of depravity that the Shredder would go to.

[Penst0ck]

Certainly not Donatello and Mikey's upgraded blade weapons. Granted we haven't seen much use of them lately.

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

The Shredder is crazed, selfish, and short sighted. All he desires are acts of vengance for injustices that only he perceives to have happened. Much of which he has brought upon himself.

.....

First off, you need to calm yourself down.
Second, it's not that simple. A lot of your points emphasize my belief that Shredder comes off more as a human version of Demona rather than having it be as simplistic as you imply. I myself always wondered why Shredder wore a bladed suit for as far as I can remember. Why a bladed suit? In this it makes a kind of sense in that he can strike down anyone he deems necessary, but also as a way of keeping others away from him (both in hurting him and in getting close to him). But still, he keeps the minions around him who've failed him again and again because despite how closed off he wants to be from society, he still yearns for it just as he did Karai. This has, from what I can see, the makings of an anti social with schizoid elements.
He really did love Tang Shen and as Splinter himself said before, he didn't help matters ("Turtle Temper"). Saki had no intention of killing the woman he loved, in fact, most people would understand if she never entered that building in the first place. For her to be killed instead of Yoshi, not to mention the fact that he himself did it, can't be accepted by him as it would destroy him. She was the only person who could keep him from being who he used to be and now he's lost and undone by this loneliness. Karley herself also makes a good point about "ViM" when he intends for his target to be Leonardo and Splinter keeps him from that and instead makes him strike what he wouldn't have intended. Now he's basically reliving it which doesn't help matters between them.
All in all, it doesn't really matter what we think, it's what he does. After all, he believes in his version of events so thoroughly we can easily be forgiven for wondering sometimes whether it's he that's truly insane or we who are somehow misguided...perhaps missing something that the creators are holding back from us? His delusions, after all, don't incapacitate him or interfere with his plans, no matter how successful or not. The result leaves us feeling like we're stuck in a screwball comedy, no matter how much tragedy the creators try to throw at us. As mentioned earlier, Shredder and Splinter thoroughly provoke each other because neither will see the world as the other sees it--each one thinks the other is being willfully perverse. And that's where, I think, the real tragedy is--that Yoshi and Saki can't see how much her loss has affected both of them. And with Saki still holding onto the incident with Shen, Yoshi having seemed to have gotten over it just reinforces Saki's beliefs. Also contributing to the tragedy is that, having intended to strike down Yoshi all along, Saki believes that by striking him down this time, he would honor Shen's memory and provide justice for her when in fact that would be quite the opposite.

With the brainworm arc in Season 3, he has the makings of Jervis Tetch from Batman TAS...although in this case, he comes off more as both Ras al Ghul and Demona from "Gargoyles" instead. Both he and Tetch felt that they have been robbed by fate of a life that was right in front of them. Admittedly, "The Deadly Venom" misses a big chance to make him a lot more like Tetch (the better character than Ras and Demona in this case) in that Tetch struggled against the feelings of temptation, fear, etc. to take Alice by the very means he knew were wrong. We should've seen him struggle against those feelings too but instead we got something more along the lines of Ras al Ghul and Demona in the fact that while they do love their daughters, they're more passionate about their revenge when it comes to balancing those two things. To admit otherwise though, would destroy them both (Demona even more so).

His betrayal in AE also serves as a reminder of how much he misses Shen (and his warped love for Karai as he makes a mention of that in ELS), while also providing a good continuity touch to his early lines in "The Invasion". Granted, while his betrayal in AE doesn't make a lot of sense even when you factor in his psychology, motivations, and history, I (once again) hold that against screenwriter Brandon Auman knowing his intended conclusion but not really knowing how to get there.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Powder

We're no Sonic fandom, but TMNT sure does attract it's share of weirdos.