Splinter's origin story. - Page 2

~~Leo656~~ · 11-09-2003, 06:37 PM

I liked the "human-into-a-rat" version because it was just easier to believe in a way and seemed a little less ridiculous. I remember when I was 8 and saw the first movie in theatres with my older sister and my cousin; none of us had any idea about the Mirage comics, only the old cartoon, so we had no idea about Splinter's origin as a rat. We must not have been the only ones; when they showed Splinter as a rat doing kicks and stuff in his cage, almost the entire theatre erupted with laughter and a few "oh come ON"s as if it were the most ridiculous thing ever, and my cousin gave me a look like she wanted to kill me for dragging her to this movie. So I admit I never liked that version of the origin from the start.

I never heard anything about Splinter not being a normal rat until like today or when someone mentioned it like two days ago in another thread; where'd you hear that? Was it ever actually explained that he was already undergoing some sort of mutation, or is it just assumed?

I'unno, as I've said before, I know the entire thing about the TMNT is really farfetched in general, but for some reason I can buy everything EXCEPT a pet rat doing martial arts moves in its cage.

So I like the other origin better.

**Machias Banshee** · 11-09-2003, 06:41 PM

agreed..

**Karpo_007** · 11-09-2003, 06:45 PM

Well I think it's far more ridiculous that some substance turns life forms what they had last touched. Especially since it happens instantly. With OOze it makes sense that it alters the DNA, and they actually grow to be diffrent.

And then, Hamato Yoshi touched the turtles, so why didn't he become a turtle? How can animals mutated to humanoids talk instantly? Well it's children's show, and they needed to find a non violent way to tell the origin. Logic or no, it did work for the old cartoon.

*Bowser_Koopa* · 11-09-2003, 06:49 PM

no seriously, is not worse than a rat that mimics the master's moves

**Karpo_007** · 11-09-2003, 06:52 PM

That has already been explained. He was never a ordinary rat. Neither of theories are realistic, but for me the original one makes much more sense.

*Bowser_Koopa* · 11-09-2003, 06:53 PM

none of the theories are realistic, thats true but this one is the least realistic one, way waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy less realistic, no matter how smart a rat is it wont be that smart

~~Leo656~~ · 11-09-2003, 06:57 PM

Where was it explained though?

I guess I should say that I prefer the *concept* of the idea behind the "human-into-a-rat" mutation, not the execution. It definitely shouldn't have been an instantaneous transformation, it should have taken place slowly. But I guess they felt it needed to be condensed for time purposes in the old show so they could get to some toy commercials or something.

**Karpo_007** · 11-09-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Where was it explained though?

I guess I should say that I prefer the *concept* of the idea behind the "human-into-a-rat" mutation, not the execution. It definitely shouldn't have been an instantaneous transformation, it should have taken place slowly. But I guess they felt it needed to be condensed for time purposes in the old show so they could get to some toy commercials or something.

They said it a few times on the letters page. One other thing that bothers me is that the relationshop between Splinter and Oroku Saki isn't as personal. The again, they newer tried to avenge anything in the old cartoon, just stop Shredder's new plot.

**Machias Banshee** · 11-09-2003, 07:13 PM

This is why I love the Archies. They made the fights with Splinter and Shredder Very personal. The archies are what the cartoon Should've become...

~~Leo656~~ · 11-09-2003, 07:14 PM

Ah mkay I must have missed it. I stopped reading most of the letters because I got sick of the way Laird would reply to people that said something he didn't like. Rather than get all worked up about it I just stopped reading 'em unless someone I know wrote in.

And yeah while I prefer the cartoon version of Splinter's origin (with slight differences) the cartoon's story as a whole really dropped the ball with the handling of the whole Splinter/Shredder relationship. It still could have been done well without killing Yoshi, it'd just take some more creativity on the part of the writer's, but telling a story took a backseat to selling toys in the old cartoon.

Splinter · 11-09-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Where was it explained though?

Laird has said it numerous times, that he was always a mutant. That's why he had such a long lifespan, and could learn to do his masters moves from his cage, and retain all this knowledge. It was also detailed more in the TMNT RPG book that Eastman and Laird collaberated on.

Quote:

Perhaps Splinter was never an ordinary rat. It is even likely he was a mutant long before the strange ooze from the broken T.C.R.I. canister started changing him. In any event, as a young rat he was very intelligent, smart enough to be able to mimic and memorize the ninja techniques of his owner, Hamato Yoshi. Years later he remembered and passed on the Ninjitsu techniques to his own disciples, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

**Karpo_007** · 11-09-2003, 07:17 PM

So true. And have to agree with Machi, Archie was like well written version of the cartoon. And the later books even got pretty mature feel in them.

*Bowser_Koopa* · 11-09-2003, 07:17 PM

so splinter was always a mutant?, how? this could make me change my mind :s

~~Leo656~~ · 11-09-2003, 07:17 PM

Wonder how it happened then. I'm not debating the fact, just saying this is the first I've heard of it. But again, as I've said few places around here carried the Mirage comic and just forget about the RPG and other stuff. I didn't even know what the difference was except for Mirage being black and white until I finally found an issue in 1999.

**Karpo_007** · 11-09-2003, 07:19 PM

I think neither Eastman or Laird knows the answer for that.

**Machias Banshee** · 11-09-2003, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

So true. And have to agree with Machi, Archie was like well written version of the cartoon. And the later books even got pretty mature feel in them.

theyre startingto list the archies on the official site. And I myself love the Blindsight three parter. Incredibly mature for its time. I cried when I saw Mike being tortured on the US Gov't Boat...

**Karpo_007** · 11-09-2003, 07:21 PM

I've been thinking I should buy the later issues. I have most of them in Finnish, but they are in terrible condition.

*Bowser_Koopa* · 11-09-2003, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

I cried when I saw Mike being tortured on the US Gov't Boat...

when was mike tortured?

~~Leo656~~ · 11-09-2003, 07:25 PM

Ah one'a them "made it up as they went along" deals. I getcha.

Which is understandable, it's just another thing people do in comics that I don't like is all. I never liked Wolverine for the fact he was created without an origin and that everything we know about him was made up as the writers went along. Just always seems like lazy writing to me. Like "eh, we'll explain it when we get around to it." But what can ya do, right?

I will say that unexplained or no, if Splinter was always a mutant of some kind it makes more sense than it would if he were a normal rat. Me? I'm gonna say residual nuclear fallout from World War II because that's more of an explanation than what we already have.

Splinter · 11-09-2003, 07:28 PM

I don't know about the made it up as they go on. Since they've been pretty much saying that since the beginning, it was always implied there was something special about him. So the fact that he was born a mutant, makes sense. They're doens't need to be ooze for there to be a genetic mutation take place in cells.

View Poll Results: Which one of Splinter's origin story is the best?
Splinter started out as Hamato Yoshi and was mutated into a giant rat	14	35.00%
Splinter started out as Hamato Yoshi's pet rat.	26	65.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

11-09-2003, 07:28 PM	#40
Splinter Radical Rat Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Splinter's Dojo Posts: 1,531	I don't know about the made it up as they go on. Since they've been pretty much saying that since the beginning, it was always implied there was something special about him. So the fact that he was born a mutant, makes sense. They're doens't need to be ooze for there to be a genetic mutation take place in cells. __________________ R.I.P. Master Splinter - Mirage Comics - May 1984 / June 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - New Episode Guide

11-09-2003, 06:37 PM	#21
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I liked the "human-into-a-rat" version because it was just easier to believe in a way and seemed a little less ridiculous. I remember when I was 8 and saw the first movie in theatres with my older sister and my cousin; none of us had any idea about the Mirage comics, only the old cartoon, so we had no idea about Splinter's origin as a rat. We must not have been the only ones; when they showed Splinter as a rat doing kicks and stuff in his cage, almost the entire theatre erupted with laughter and a few "oh come ON"s as if it were the most ridiculous thing ever, and my cousin gave me a look like she wanted to kill me for dragging her to this movie. So I admit I never liked that version of the origin from the start. I never heard anything about Splinter not being a normal rat until like today or when someone mentioned it like two days ago in another thread; where'd you hear that? Was it ever actually explained that he was already undergoing some sort of mutation, or is it just assumed? I'unno, as I've said before, I know the entire thing about the TMNT is really farfetched in general, but for some reason I can buy everything EXCEPT a pet rat doing martial arts moves in its cage. So I like the other origin better.

11-09-2003, 06:41 PM	#22
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	agreed..

11-09-2003, 06:45 PM	#23
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Well I think it's far more ridiculous that some substance turns life forms what they had last touched. Especially since it happens instantly. With OOze it makes sense that it alters the DNA, and they actually grow to be diffrent. And then, Hamato Yoshi touched the turtles, so why didn't he become a turtle? How can animals mutated to humanoids talk instantly? Well it's children's show, and they needed to find a non violent way to tell the origin. Logic or no, it did work for the old cartoon.

11-09-2003, 06:49 PM	#24
Bowser_Koopa Very yes Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Not so far, go back a little Posts: 1,849	no seriously, is not worse than a rat that mimics the master's moves

11-09-2003, 06:52 PM	#25
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	That has already been explained. He was never a ordinary rat. Neither of theories are realistic, but for me the original one makes much more sense.

11-09-2003, 06:53 PM	#26
Bowser_Koopa Very yes Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Not so far, go back a little Posts: 1,849	none of the theories are realistic, thats true but this one is the least realistic one, way waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy less realistic, no matter how smart a rat is it wont be that smart

11-09-2003, 06:57 PM	#27
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Where was it explained though? I guess I should say that I prefer the concept of the idea behind the "human-into-a-rat" mutation, not the execution. It definitely shouldn't have been an instantaneous transformation, it should have taken place slowly. But I guess they felt it needed to be condensed for time purposes in the old show so they could get to some toy commercials or something.

11-09-2003, 07:13 PM	#29
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	This is why I love the Archies. They made the fights with Splinter and Shredder Very personal. The archies are what the cartoon Should've become...

11-09-2003, 07:14 PM	#30
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Ah mkay I must have missed it. I stopped reading most of the letters because I got sick of the way Laird would reply to people that said something he didn't like. Rather than get all worked up about it I just stopped reading 'em unless someone I know wrote in. And yeah while I prefer the cartoon version of Splinter's origin (with slight differences) the cartoon's story as a whole really dropped the ball with the handling of the whole Splinter/Shredder relationship. It still could have been done well without killing Yoshi, it'd just take some more creativity on the part of the writer's, but telling a story took a backseat to selling toys in the old cartoon.

11-09-2003, 07:17 PM	#32
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	So true. And have to agree with Machi, Archie was like well written version of the cartoon. And the later books even got pretty mature feel in them.

11-09-2003, 07:19 PM	#35
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I think neither Eastman or Laird knows the answer for that.

11-09-2003, 07:21 PM	#37
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I've been thinking I should buy the later issues. I have most of them in Finnish, but they are in terrible condition.

11-09-2003, 07:25 PM	#39
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Ah one'a them "made it up as they went along" deals. I getcha. Which is understandable, it's just another thing people do in comics that I don't like is all. I never liked Wolverine for the fact he was created without an origin and that everything we know about him was made up as the writers went along. Just always seems like lazy writing to me. Like "eh, we'll explain it when we get around to it." But what can ya do, right? I will say that unexplained or no, if Splinter was always a mutant of some kind it makes more sense than it would if he were a normal rat. Me? I'm gonna say residual nuclear fallout from World War II because that's more of an explanation than what we already have.