Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

All I will say is that since the Nick sale, no, I don't have any hope for a TMNT incarnation that will be even moderately appealing to me. But also, I'm a 38 year-old man... why would it? That said, I won't rule out being "pleasantly surprised" at some point, as maybe some TMNT project in some venue (maybe one subcontracted to another studio) is able to appeal to a wide enough berth that includes me and not the lowest common denominators.

Don’t we deserve a film for us? Collectively, we have spent billions.
Was that in vein?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Don’t we deserve a film for us? Collectively, we have spent billions.
Was that in vein?

Yeah (on the latter). The removal of an actual human heart at the heart of things in 2009 -- as in Peter Laird's (but it could be anybody, if this same situation played out similarly for another franchise) -- in terms of quality control and a singular voice able to say "no, that's garbage" or "ehh... that's dodgy but let me see a modified pitch, like this" removed anyone from the table with any power who would care. I guess people cheered because Peter Laird said bad things to them in the Vol. 4 lettercol but here we are in 2019 with no TMNT that is really... eh, anything that can be rallied behind.

Which isn't to say Rise, or TMNT 2012 didn't have people who care about the TMNT. Like, really care, like as fans like you and I. But they have no power or say in anything, at the end of the day. They aren't decision makers.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

out similarly for another franchise) I guess people cheered because Peter Laird said bad things to them in the Vol. 4 lettercol but here we are in 2019 with no TMNT.

I don’t recall Laird doing anything to piss off fans, other than delaying the end. What am I missing?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TommyT

I don’t recall Laird doing anything to piss off fans, other than delaying the end. What am I missing?

A lot. Even here, there were a ton of fans -- even close friends of mine -- who claimed to have quit the fandom solely because Peter argued with them in the Vol. 4 lettercol. I sh** you not. I could rattle off a variety off nicks.

I disagreed with him a ton on the lettercol and even had at least one letter printed there, but it never bothered me. It's his treehouse, we're just visiting it.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Can you distinguish between animation and design? The shape of the characters is, simplistic. The animation of Rise, is what is often referred to as limited motion. Limited motion may feel effective, for you, in that the little they do animate, is engaging, but this doesn’t mean it’s good. Good animation, means that the flow between frames is smooth and well done. Animation is not a catch all term. Bay turtles had very good animation, but terrible designs. Rise does not do this. It’s choppy as hell. It’s limited and simple. South Park is an engaging show, but the animation is basic, while Spiderverse had incredibly dynamic animation, that was stepped down in post to give it a stoccato, limited animation feel.

Good animation can mean a number of things sometimes it means it can have inventive techniques such as , composition, key frames, perspective different animation frames, and use of the camera. Don't get me wrong fluidity is nice and all but if you don't have the mentioned you pretty much have something in the vein of one of Hazbin Hotel where the animation is fluid but the composition is poor that it gives the audience sensory overload. Also yes while some scenes of Rise can be choppy almost every episode gives us a Sakuga(or highly animated scene). Take example this scene from Insane in the mama train

Originally Posted by TommyT

What you want to say is that you like the design of Rise. You like the style. You like the layouts. Stop saying it’s incredible animation ffs. You sound ignorant.

Dude you called the Turtles "Cal Arts" style of turtles, you yourself are one of the last people on this forum to call anyone ignorant.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Good animation can mean a number of things sometimes it means it can have inventive techniques such as , composition, key frames, perspective different animation frames, and use of the camera. Don't get me wrong fluidity is nice and all but if you don't have the mentioned you pretty much have something in the vein of one of Hazbin Hotel where the animation is fluid but the composition is poor that it gives the audience sensory overload. Also yes while some scenes of Rise can be choppy almost every episode gives us a Sakuga(or highly animated scene). Take example this scene from Insane in the mama train

https://66.media.tumblr.com/9ab035ae...bbd717bcfc.gif



Dude you called the Turtles "Cal Arts" style of turtles, you yourself are one of the last people on this forum to call anyone ignorant.

Rise is Cal Arts turtles. Samurai Jack, Powderpuff girls, all garbage art styles, people thumbing their nose at anatomy and perspective in favour of simplified lines and form. Garbage, crap, cal arts, Rise of the TMNT, are synonyms.

If you want to misunderstand the meaning of words, that’s your business, but don’t expect others to follow suit.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

A lot. Even here, there were a ton of fans -- even close friends of mine -- who claimed to have quit the fandom solely because Peter argued with them in the Vol. 4 lettercol. I sh** you not. I could rattle off a variety off nicks.

I disagreed with him a ton on the lettercol and even had at least one letter printed there, but it never bothered me. It's his treehouse, we're just visiting it.

You know, given spuds up here is looking to derail this thread by further proving his ignorance, maybe let’s go delve into the who and what that created the divide between fans and Laid. It seems to be far more on topic and pertinent to this discussion.

[snake]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Can you distinguish between animation and design? The shape of the characters is, simplistic. The animation of Rise, is what is often referred to as limited motion. Limited motion may feel effective, for you, in that the little they do animate, is engaging, but this doesn’t mean it’s good. Good animation, means that the flow between frames is smooth and well done. Animation is not a catch all term. Bay turtles had very good animation, but terrible designs. Rise does not do this. It’s choppy as hell. It’s limited and simple. South Park is an engaging show, but the animation is basic, while Spiderverse had incredibly dynamic animation, that was stepped down in post to give it a stoccato, limited animation feel.

What you want to say is that you like the design of Rise. You like the style. You like the layouts. Stop saying it’s incredible animation ffs. You sound ignorant.

Are you high? Rise's animation is nothing like Samurai Jack, South Park, or any other limited motion show. The only similarity between those shows and Rise are, ironically, the minimalist designs and outlines. Rise is more fluid than any other TMNT incarnation. Calling it "Cal Arts TMNT" is a disgrace.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TommyT

You know, given spuds up here is looking to derail this thread by further proving his ignorance, maybe let’s go delve into the who and what that created the divide between fans and Laid. It seems to be far more on topic and pertinent to this discussion.

Lots of old timers around here. Horsetechie, Dawnatello, and a lot of the ladies who did a lot of fanfiction at the time. Many more. Basically a lot of people angry with his stance on things like April's genesis, Splinter's death, and Laird's politics. Particularly his responses to that stuff.

A big point of contention was his "you don't like? Don't read!" And I think he even responded to someone pissed off with, "OK, solution for you. You should keep buying, but just don't read."

It made sense to me, but people got mad. And I think it took a few years but that kind of stuff and those kinds of fans finally wore thin on him. But I have no idea. I wish he never let it get to him.

Read that lettercol, by all means.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Lots of old timers around here. Horsetechie, Dawnatello, and a lot of the ladies who did a lot of fanfiction at the time. Many more. Basically a lot of people angry with his stance on things like April's genesis, Splinter's death, and Laird's politics. Particularly his responses to that stuff.

A big point of contention was his "you don't like? Don't read!" And I think he even responded to someone pissed off with, "OK, solution for you. You should keep buying, but just don't read."

It made sense to me, but people got mad. And I think it took a few years but that kind of stuff and those kinds of fans finally wore thin on him. But I have no idea. I wish he never let it get to him.

Read that lettercol, by all means.

Ok, any specific issues? Man, I have a new love for the guy.

@snake - Andy Suriano, also responsible for the look of Samurai Jack, was s teacher at Cal Arts for 6 years, specifically 2010 -2016. Do you need more evidence or can we just agree that you like this schlock, and I hate it. My definition is sound, in all aspects.

[Wildcat]

I liked Rise. I intend to finish it even if it is canceled after it’s current hiatus.

I do not think the FW cartoon has taken over. There’s merchandise and crossovers but that’s perfectly reasonable given how huge it was.

I don’t see where it’s become all about that though. The Bay movies were the first time the FW cartoon sorta got adapted and they still did not do it well.

Anyway there’s always something new being made in all franchises. Some stuff is better than others. You just have to wait.

[CyberCubed]

I remember enjoying the Vol 4 letters pages seeing Laird angrily argue with people who didn’t like the comic. Or the people arguing about politics and George W Bush at the time and Al Gore and how Star Wars Episode III “blew it.”

God the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I remember enjoying the Vol 4 letters pages seeing Laird angrily argue with people who didn’t like the comic. Or the people arguing about politics and George W Bush at the time and Al Gore and how Star Wars Episode III “blew it.”

God the more things change, the more they stay the same.

This for the win.

But on that note, don't explain this to a millenial - they think they are the first people to do anything.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Having watched "The Manhattan project" two-parter just yesterday, I can say: No, I'm not disillusioned by the TMNT Fandom. If anything, seeing as how "Rise" has finally started to get GOOD, I'm getting more amped up.

I'm working on a new fan comic which will be called "quiet time" I have my creative juices working overtime.

And err...Snake what WERE you doing on E-hentai and finding my "A weird world" comic there?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

Having watched "The Manhattan project" two-parter just yesterday, I can say: No, I'm not disillusioned by the TMNT Fandom. If anything, seeing as how "Rise" has finally started to get GOOD, I'm getting more amped up.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Rise is Cal Arts turtles. Samurai Jack, Powderpuff girls, all garbage art styles, people thumbing their nose at anatomy and perspective in favour of simplified lines and form. Garbage, crap, cal arts, Rise of the TMNT, are synonyms.

If you want to misunderstand the meaning of words, that’s your business, but don’t expect others to follow suit.

This why I hate the term "Cal Arts" to describe this current trend of artstyles because so many people there worked on different things so by your logic The Iron Giant is "Cal Arts" because a bunch of students from that school worked on that film.

By the way Rise, PowerPuff Girls and Samurai Jack has better perspective than any action figured style action cartoon from the 80s.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

All of that feels like a reasonable concession in order to get the rest of the movie made. It didn't bother me then (as I was too young to know differently) and still doesn't now.

Oddly enough, as a kid I was fanatical about the FW cartoon (and Archie comics). I didn't even realize that by 1990 I was getting a bit tired of the formula, until I saw the movie, and suddenly it was like, "Oh, okay, THAT'S what I want TMNT to be like." It had enough resemblance to the cartoon by way of the characters' personalities to be familiar, but was also grounded and "real" enough to be engaging for people over the age of 9. To this day I sometimes get a rare opportunity to "smarten up" someone of a certain age who's never seen (or even heard of) the film, and it always gets a rave reaction, especially from people who only know of the brand through toys and cartoons. Usually something like, "I didn't think they'd ever make a REAL movie about this kinda thing!" (as opposed to the expected farce that the name implies to most people). Sometimes one of them will have seen or be familiar with the Bay disasters, and in turn will wonder out loud, "WHY don't they just keep it like that first movie? That was good! Why do they keep making it silly?" I don't have a good answer. Never did.

Anyway. The cartoon concessions of the original film were a very small price to pay in exchange for the only TMNT product that's ever had "true" cross-over appeal between fans, non-fans, and people of all ages. If it was 100% Mirage it would probably have been so "dry" and unfamiliar to the casual audience that it would have lost a lot of the charm that gives it its unique appeal. I'm not a fan of the pizza/"Cowabunga" sh*t but I understand that it's never going away at this point. The first movie was extremely tame with it compared to everything else that's come since. It didn't bother me then, and nowadays all I can think of is how they showed such incredible restraint.

Interesting question.

"Cowabunga" is a fine war cry. One could argue it's heavily outdated, but I'll take it over Booyakasha any day. That one is also outdated and it's not even something that people associate with the Turtles, but with Ali G. While Cowabunga predates TMNT by at least 2 decades, at least it's something people associate with the Turtles. So it might as well be their trademark at this point. That or Bart Simpson, I guess.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I remember enjoying the Vol 4 letters pages seeing Laird angrily argue with people who didn’t like the comic. Or the people arguing about politics and George W Bush at the time and Al Gore and how Star Wars Episode III “blew it.”

God the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I’ve never read the comics, but you’re right that there’s nothing new about people being disillusioned with fandom. Myself, I’m not bothered that the newer TMNT stuff doesn’t appeal to me. The older stuff is still there. Never got into the 1990 movie until a few years ago so that was something ‘new’ for me.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Wesley

I’ve never read the comics, but you’re right that there’s nothing new about people being disillusioned with fandom. Myself, I’m not bothered that the newer TMNT stuff doesn’t appeal to me. The older stuff is still there. Never got into the 1990 movie until a few years ago so that was something ‘new’ for me.

I never got into the 2000's cartoon at all. My first exposure to it was the CN movie where they meet the FW team, and that drew me in.

Was that the first time a TMNT multi-verse was introduced? It was great....

[The Great Saiyaman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

https://media.giphy.com/media/26wAdy...qI5a/giphy.gif

Care to let me in on the Joke?

"Manhattan Project" had it all:
- The introduction of Tiger Claw
- Top Notch fight scenes
- the FW turtles.

What's so laughable about me using that episode as a reference point for my art works?