Corona Virus/Dow Jones taking a hit/possible recession

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by sdp

sorry, sometimes I write long posts, realize I'm getting into things that I don't care to explain and delete paragraphs

You don't even know how much respect I have for this sentence. You're talking to a mirror, man. And if you think I post in a lot of the "deep discussion" threads, try to imagine what I've written, then deleted or read and shook my head at and clicked off the page. I understand completely.

Originally Posted by sdp

It's also why Bob Iger left Disney for example, timed to do the last damage when the stocks are already getting plummeted.

Crazy to hear you say this. I actually had similar thoughts about how we see big wigs leave in clusters. The timing, etc.

Originally Posted by sdp

Better safe than not and having a few extra cans and washing my hands more often is not a bad thing, getting paranoid and doing more extreme things or reading only the news however is just as silly as thinking your invincible and not doing anything.

I have to agree with this. Going out and buying a one year supply of SPAM is ridiculous. But having some extra toilet paper and tylenol and some canned food makes sense. And it's not because the world is ending or supplies will dry up, but rather so that you can remain at home when you otherwise normally wouldn't - in case you get sick or in case staying at home keeps you healthy if you live in an area where an outbreak occurs.

Just some basic, simple stuff. What always makes me laugh are those guys who buy "beans" and whatnot. It's a fine strategy, but actually ask those guys how they'd eat them and many either couldn't tell you or they'd simply imply that they would just sit there and eat boiled beans. That's it. Just eat the boiled beans. HAHAHAHAAHA my God. And then if you pressed them, but never mentioned "making soup" or "beef broth" or something like that, they'd fill the void with something like "well put seasoning on them!". Seasoning and boiled beans. Bring on the end, baby!

[Andrew NDB]

Over here? Lots of MREs, canned goods (not just beans), lots of bottled water, a good amount of firepower... yeah, bring it on.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Over here? Lots of MREs, canned goods (not just beans), lots of bottled water, a good amount of firepower... yeah, bring it on.

Now I'm secretly hoping that you secretly have your own Webley....
-I just confused everyone not in the PM circle-

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Now I'm secretly hoping that you secretly have your own Webley....

I do not.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Eh, I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle is looking to Trump for soothing words of comfort in this or really any other matter. He's not that guy. Let Pence try and be that guy.

So the leader of country is not expected to lead? This isn't a problem for anyone?

Are you getting money from this guy? Has he done ANYTHING you disapprove of? For someone who's supposed to be making America great, he sure does hand the ball off a lot.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I do not.

Here you go dude, Webley need fulfilled!

[IndigoErth]

Well the U.S. has our first death from it. So far so good that's only one, but sad nonetheless. Not finding anything yet on age or prior health, only that it was a man.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Voltron

So the leader of country is not expected to lead? This isn't a problem for anyone?

Are you getting money from this guy? Has he done ANYTHING you disapprove of? For someone who's supposed to be making America great, he sure does hand the ball off a lot.

Lead doesn"t mean "soothing words of comfort." Is that something you require on the day to day, or something? Odd, if so.

[Voltron]

Is that all he's capable of doing? Soothing words?

First, words are powerful. And what he says matters. Obviously, his words didn't do much to assuage fears.

Second, this is what happens when everything is tied to one person.

For some reason, people seem to think that POTUS has some a great deal of influence over the economy. I don't believe this is inherently true, since the president isn't at the helm when it comes to spending. Congress is.

You yourself gave him credit for making the economy boom and helping your 401k. Now the economy is dropping and suddenly he's not only not responsible for the drop, but also not responsible for fixing it.

You don't present defined or consistent expectations for this guy. The economy is doing great, must be Trump. The economy isnt doing well, don't bother Trump!

I'll say this: I wouldn't pin the drop on Trump. Markets respond to panic like this all the time. And as far as another disaster for Trump, I wouldn't worry either. You consistently forgive and exonerate the man for things that no one should be. He'll escape this without a scratch as well.

I don't like to carry a banner for political parties or candidates for this reason. It's what happened to Obama groupies. And it's going to happen here. People are going to end up looking like fools for hero worship.

And you may say that you don't worship Trump. Or that you don't support him. But this brings it back to the original point: perception is a big factor. If people perceive you as something, it doesn't matter if you are that thing. They'll respond to you as though you are. Trump may not be a great business man, but people perceive him to be. And so people respect him as one. Trump is perceived to be a racist. May not be true, but the perception is important.

Trump didn't offer any soothing words. People perceive this as the problem being bigger than it is. Maybe it isn't. But that's not how people are going to act.

Trump does have a responsibility to at least dispel fears here. If people are still panicked, then he still has some work to do.

At the same time, if the last 5 outbreaks of some world ending plague didn't kill us, I suspect this one will blow over too.

[Sumac]

What next on the list of things Trump should do?
Feed elderly from the spoon? Wipe children asses?

The whole post above could be summed as: "I need another reason to hate Trump and I am gonna fabricate it out of thin air!"

And then Voltron is surprised why people think of him like this.

[IMJ]

Thhhhaaattts right.... delete, cancel, remove what you don't like. Just like any loser that can't compute new information. Just make it go away.

[Leo656]

Side rant, kinda, but I've always noticed that a big reason people hate on Republicans and overly-gush over Democrats, is simply that the Blue side puts on a pretense of being "Nice People" while the Red side simply does not.

Like whenever anyone gushes over Obama to this day, for example, it's mostly about what a Nice Guy he was. And he probably is. Nice Guys don't generally make for good leaders, though; as my boss reminds me on the regular, "nice" doesn't get anyone very far in any sort of leadership position, and anyone with an overabundance of compassion isn't fit to lead in the first place because they're too easily swayed by emotion. But anyway. Obama was a Nice Guy; he pretty much only got the Nobel Peace Prize because he was a "Nice Guy" (since he had literally no accomplishments to speak of which would have earned him such a lofty accolade, aside from getting elected in the first place; so did he get it for giving dramatic speeches, or what? ). And he had his share of scandals and kerfluffles during his eight years, but nobody talked about them then, and they never bring them up now, because he's a Nice Guy. Nobody wants that image to be tainted by the other baggage.

W. Bush, on the contrary, wasn't seen as much of a nice guy. He never seemed like all THAT bad of a guy to me, personally, but he definitely wasn't the smooth operator as Obama comes off as, for example. To this day, though, when Ellen DeGeneres sits next to him at a football game, she gets buried with hate mail for "supporting a war criminal". And out of office, Bush DOES actually seem like a really cool guy, he just had a really hard job and had to make a lot of controversial decisions, most of which weren't popular. BUT, he made those decisions and in some cases doubled-down on them; He wasn't easily swayed by popular opinion and never presented himself as "one of the people", and thus, "Not A Nice Guy."

Warren tries hard (TOO hard) to come off as "A Nice Guy/Person", right down to that cringe-worthy "Have myself a beer" scenario. Bernie paints himself as "A regular dude who just wants to help out the little guy" even though that image has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of his life or his actual status (He's a .00001%-er! You'd all hate this guy if he wasn't promising you free sh*t! ). Across the aisle, Trump has no interest at all in being "The Nice Guy"; if anything, he goes out of his way to be as abrasive as possible. Yet this only endears him more and more to people who support him.

I find all of this very interesting. Given how far people like Warren and Trump will often go to play into either extreme, I have to believe that even the players themselves know that "Democrats are Nice and Republicans are Big Meanies" is just part of the script and they perform it as such. What surprises me, though, is how often the average person will buy into it as if these personas we see on TV are actually how the human beings themselves really behave when the cameras are off, which I assure you is not the case. They're all just playing a character on a TV show. What they do and what actions they take behind closed doors is another matter entirely, but in speaking to the actual faces they present to the world on TV and in the media, well, all of that is fabricated for the entertainment of the viewer. A story is no fun without Good Guys and Bad Guys, after all.

It partly makes me wonder why anyone would go into politics under the Republican banner, since it means anyone who isn't nuts is going to hate you, but then I remember that it's simply more fun sometimes to play the villain.

[Voltron]

You guys said he was a great hype man, not me. You said he was great for the economy, not me.

What a perfect time to shine. And what a perfect time for some consistency.


And in a thread about Trump and the coronavirus, forgive me for

A: talking about Trump

and

B: not having the same high opinion of him as you do.

W. Bush, on the contrary, wasn't seen as much of a nice guy.

What the hell are you talking about? He was billed as "someone they could have a beer with". He was constantly held up as a sensitive, church going "every-man". Here's a link discussing that point.

Meanwhile, the other side of politics went bat-**** insane when Obama wore a tan suit or saluted a marine while holding a cup of coffee. Here's another where that selfish bastard had the gall to ask marines to hold umbrellas for him. NOT NICE.

There is literally NOTHING one side did that the other hasn't. You can't offer up a complaint without first acknowledging that everyone did it. Just to set your mind at ease, it's not hard to find examples of ANY political figure doing SOMETHING people weren't happy with.

she gets buried with hate mail for "supporting a war criminal"

Because his administration was accused of war crimes.

And out of office, Bush DOES actually seem like a really cool guy,

he just had a really hard job

Really? If you're going to make that excuse for him, then why not all presidents?

and had to make a lot of controversial decisions, most of which weren't popular.

He lead us into an endless war. I'd imagine most sane people would find that less than stellar decision making.

BUT, he made those decisions and in some cases doubled-down on them

Governing is like jazz. If you've sold the entire country on war using false information and ended up killing thousands of your own soldiers for no reason, then you back down. You don't apologize. The wise thing to do is to keep the war going so your friends can make more money on a war no one likes!

He wasn't easily swayed by popular opinion and never presented himself as "one of the people", and thus, "Not A Nice Guy."

Again, that was his whole persona. Here's another link discussing that.

Warren tries hard (TOO hard) to come off as "A Nice Guy/Person", right down to that cringe-worthy "Have myself a beer" scenario.

Hamberders.

Bernie paints himself as "A regular dude who just wants to help out the little guy" even though that image has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of his life or his actual status (He's a .00001%-er! You'd all hate this guy if he wasn't promising you free sh*t! )

.

First, it's good to know that. He's recently risen to that level. His first bid for the presidency is apparently what vaulted him there. I looked it up and he did indeed release his tax returns, something that the most transparent president in history has yet to do.


No, I wouldn't. He's joined protests and picket lines for workers. He's been arrested for protesting at civil rights.

I'm not picky. I'm aware of the general Republican platform and not opposed to it. Smaller government, lower taxes. . . who wouldn't be happier with that? But that's not what's executed. And anyone looking would see that they're just as keen on big government and welfare as any Democrat is.

Hating the Democrats is pointless virtue signaling if you aren't willing to go just as hard on the GOP. They're the opposite sides of the same coin. Which is and has been my stance all along. Neither of them are going to come through for any of us, and it's in our best interest to work towards shutting down a part of the system that hasn't served us.

When Andrew rants about needing soothing words, or Leo talks about being nice. . . that's kind of their job. They're supposed to project security and reassurance to us. That's what leadership is. And a sourpuss asshole isn't going to win people over, especially when they find out he's being a sourpuss to them.

Take FDR's inaugural address. 100% taking the helm and leading us into and through a very certain darkness. Because that's his job.

Take the Gettysburg Address. Solemn yet soaring words from a man presiding over what may have been the death of the United States.

Take the Dr. King's I Have a Dream. That's going to echo through the ages.

And then here we have a man who has the best words failing to give anything close to a semblance of leadership on an issue that's worried quite a few people. You think the least he could do is his job.

Across the aisle, Trump has no interest at all in being "The Nice Guy"; if anything, he goes out of his way to be as abrasive as possible. Yet this only endears him more and more to people who support him.

He's abrasive to people you dislike. Something tells me another leader using that style of "leadership" targeting you would be less welcomed.

I find all of this very interesting. Given how far people like Warren and Trump will often go to play into either extreme, I have to believe that even the players themselves know that "Democrats are Nice and Republicans are Big Meanies"

Except the mean ol' DemonRATS are coming for your guns and freedom. They were accused of starting death panels over Obamacare. Hell, one talking point that keeps popping up is that Democrats started the KKK and supported slavery during the Civil War.

Hell, did anyone think Hillary Clinton was nice? "What a nasty woman!"

What surprises me, though, is how often the average person will buy into it as if these personas we see on TV are actually how the human beings themselves really behave when the cameras are off,

Or, in this case, completely miss the whole media portrayal by a mile.

which I assure you is not the case.

As do I. But for different reasons.

They're all just playing a character on a TV show.

So Trump having admitted to breaking the law AND it being proven and through mounds of evidence is worse than the rest of them. Thanks for conceding the point.

What they do and what actions they take behind closed doors is another matter entirely,

. . . Which almost invariably get out. Is anyone waiting on some huge conspiracy from the past? Any day now we're going to find out LBJ really DID call the hit on Kennedy? That it really WAS a magic bullet that did +5 against Irish sex machines?

It partly makes me wonder why anyone would go into politics under the Republican banner, since it means anyone who isn't nuts is going to hate you, but then I remember that it's simply more fun sometimes to play the villain.

Yes. If I didn't have a soul I'd be right there getting rich off you rubes with the rest of them.

In the meantime, you'll have to content yourself with the SECRET MESSAGE I put in this very post. It's aimed directly at a certain member. First person to find it gets a prize! Good luck!

Also, I'd like to thank you all for being so flippant and panicky all the time. It sends me on Google dives for information pertaining to whatever political trend you're selling that day. I've ended up learning WAY more than I ever imagined. I'm still not totally unconvinced that Andrew just does this so I'd help him with his current events homework.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Side rant, kinda, but I've always noticed that a big reason people hate on Republicans and overly-gush over Democrats, is simply that the Blue side puts on a pretense of being "Nice People" while the Red side simply does not.

Your whole post here basically discusses the generations old observations about liberalism and conservatism. The feels-for-good as opposed to logic-for-good. It's an honest balance in theory as well as archetype because people need a structure that encompasses the whole gamut. That span of people ranging from knee-jerk responders to extreme calculators.

But the fact is that the spectrum is a representative model. In some ways it unfortunately legitimizes the left yet the model only functions successfully in real life beginning immediately left of center and then all the way to the far right. Of course the far right is pretty ridiculous as well, but the irony is that things on the far right can still function whereas the far left is chaos and would tear itself apart.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Because his administration was accused of war crimes.

Point me at any administration of any big country which couldn't be accused of war crimes at some point. Obama can be considered war criminal too, Clinton as well.

Originally Posted by Voltron

Hell, did anyone think Hillary Clinton was nice? "What a nasty woman!"

Hilarity is a two-faced chameleon. She had built herself such reputation that no amount of white-washing and blue checkmarks were able to scrub it away.

Originally Posted by Voltron

Yes. If I didn't have a soul I'd be right there getting rich off you rubes with the rest of them.

In the meantime, you'll have to content yourself with the SECRET MESSAGE I put in this very post. It's aimed directly at a certain member. First person to find it gets a prize! Good luck!

Also, I'd like to thank you all for being so flippant and panicky all the time. It sends me on Google dives for information pertaining to whatever political trend you're selling that day. I've ended up learning WAY more than I ever imagined. I'm still not totally unconvinced that Andrew just does this so I'd help him with his current events homework.

You should stop doing drugs in my honest opinion. Or should do more drugs. Because, it sounds not too far off from the rants certain member recently did about cartoon animals: meaningless and awkward to process.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE=Sumac;1838037]

Point me at any administration of any big country which couldn't be accused of war crimes at some point. Obama can be considered war criminal too, Clinton as well.

It's almost like you didn't read my post. . .

Hilarity is a two-faced chameleon. She had built herself such reputation that no amount of white-washing and blue checkmarks were able to scrub it away.

Thank you for agreeing with me. I'll add another W on my board.

You should stop doing drugs in my honest opinion. Or should do more drugs. Because, it sounds not too far off from the rants certain member recently did about cartoon animals: meaningless and awkward to process.

FYI: I take all ad hominems as an apology and admission of defeat. Especially when they're void of any counterpoints or evidence of my being wrong. I forgive you, and thank you for conceding.

That's two W's. I'm on fire today.

[Leo656]

Well in my own defense, during the Bush Years I wasn't on the internet much and the only feedback I ever saw about him was in the newspapers, little of which was positive. *I* always thought he seemed like a chill dude but I didn't see that in too many other places.

That's all I can speak to at the moment because I'm at work. Shhhh.

[Voltron]

You can rip me in half later. No worries.

On topic: I'm sitting next to ground zero of coronavirus and there's not a whole lot going on. The general attitude is precautionary measures. Schools are shut down, but everything else is running smoothly. I wouldn't start praying or moving into a bunker just yet.

Surgical masks are completely sold out, though.

A couple friends of mine are much closer to one of the "pandemic" regions. They're actually missing out on work. So. . . I guess it's different depending on where someone is.

[IndigoErth]

If nothing else, the virus is at least profitable for the companies who make the masks and hand sanitizer...

Had a guy in Walgreens asking me about the hand sanitizer today (had to tell him I'm vendor and don't work for the store) and told me places are selling out of it. Kind of grateful that I'd gotten a couple little bottles of it back before this thing hit the news since I'm always using it post-work store visits.

Wouldn't mind finding the N95 masks if they actually manage to restock. If nothing else, they're still useful around the house, so why not. (But push come to shove I still have an old one from my previous job when we were cleaning up/out the place after it closed down.)

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Voltron

FYI: I take all ad hominems as an apology and admission of defeat. Especially when they're void of any counterpoints or evidence of my being wrong. I forgive you, and thank you for conceding.

That's two W's. I'm on fire today.

I can't make counterpoints to random nonsense.
So you can take one W from your list.

Also, you are the last who should blame others for acting "panicky".