Christopher Nolan's "Tenet"

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I like The Dark Knight Rises more than Dark Knight

Again, by what standard? I'm very curious.

I gushed a LOT about Dark Knight Rises the night I saw it, but that was 100% opening night delirium. I've since seen it almost a dozen times and it does NOT hold up well upon repeat viewings. You can see more Scotch tape and chicken wire every single time you watch it.

I am of the opinion that "The Dark Knight" is both a really great film BUT also a little bit overrated because of the surrounding circumstances. And on a given day I really am more apt to randomly pick "Batman Begins" off the shelf for a no-reason re-watch. But as far as any objective standard goes there's a mile between DK and DKR. There's just SO many little things wrong with "Rises" that simply aren't there in DK. Scripting problems, staging problems, a few bits of really dodgy acting (Talia's death scene. Was. HORRIBLE.)... these aren't make-believe things a person can just pretend aren't there. They're very real flaws that simply don't exist in DK.

Like I said, DK is a wee bit overrated but in what universe is "Rises" a better movie with all the stuff that's objectively wrong with it? Don't forget to show your work.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Hey, I don't care as long as I am allowed to love Batman Forever

It's awful but I allow you to like it ironically.

That movie is 82% of the reason why I hope to one day drink mead out of Jim Carrey's hollowed-out goddamn skull.

Because you gotta have goals, y'see.

[neatoman]

Damn, we're on the second page and nobody has an answer for my question about inverted pooping? I am really disappointed...

[Leo656]

Well I'm sorry but I don't spend a lot of time thinking about scat. I DO however spend a lot of time chiding people for their questionable taste in Batman movies. That's my wheelhouse, sailor.

[CyberCubed]

I wish they'd put Tenet on online streaming already so I could watch it, I don't know why they're waiting so long when it's already bombed in theaters since Covid-19 shut almost everything down.

[newfan]

Reading this thread had me concerned for my memory, when I saw Insomia listed as a Nolan favourite I knew I had seen it but could for the life of me remember anything of it. I now remember, saw it in theatres too, though I could use a rewatch, I remember liking it at least. I also liked and own Prestige and the Batman movies.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by newfan

Reading this thread had me concerned for my memory, when I saw Insomia listed as a Nolan favourite I knew I had seen it but could for the life of me remember anything of it. I now remember, saw it in theatres too, though I could use a rewatch, I remember liking it at least. I also liked and own Prestige and the Batman movies.

When you rewatch it post a review of it on this section of the Technodrome forums. It will determine if I watch it or not.

Another film I want to see if it wasn't for the pandemic is Honest Thief with Liam Nesson. That looks like my kind of film as well.

As for a DVD/Blu-ray date, I don't think anything is official but is projecting the second week of December after digging around Google. I hope it will come true.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

When you rewatch it post a review of it on this section of the Technodrome forums. It will determine if I watch it or not.

Oh I was talking about the movie Insomnia, not yet seen Tenet either.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by newfan

Oh I was talking about the movie Insomnia, not yet seen Tenet either.

I know. I wanted your thoughts on Insomnia. I am going to see Tenet eventually and am interested while Indomnia the plot did not grab my attention personally like say Inception, The Prestige, and Interstellar did.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I know. I wanted your thoughts on Insomnia. I am going to see Tenet eventually and am interested while Indomnia the plot did not grab my attention personally like say Inception, The Prestige, and Interstellar did.

Oh okay, wasn't sure if you had misread me or not. Well if it's a little more fresh in anyone else's mind they can always chime in I've found when talking about movies on here that I can be hazy if it's something I saw some time back and never again.

[Andrew NDB]

Nolan says the studios maybe learned the wrong lessons from Tenet's box office:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/nolan-s...-tenet-lesson/

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.cnet.com/news/tenet-is-n...is%20Dec.%2015.

I have seen multiple websites show Tenet is set for DVD release on December 15th. Is it official then?

[MikeandRaph87]

I understand your distain for Rises,Leo through another film. When I first saw Now You See Me I just went to go to the movies, knew nothing about it going in and left the theatre blown away. I was excited when I learned of a sequel, but then it was like the sequel was trying to out twist the first film and it tied itself in knots making Now You See Me 2 as great as it is make both films unnecessary with Ruffalo's character's secret mission nullified by Freeman's revelation. I can't watch it again despite loving the film because it just takes away from the whole point. Connecting it to The Dark Knight Rises, I see it too negating the point of Bruce's mission. It's not over and he disappears retired to play dead when it is arguable that instead of setting up an inspiration and a successor (along with setting up his cover being blown with an orphanage over the hideout). I think it comes down to does an individual fan believe that Bruce Wayne can be happy and not die in battle or forced to retire to end his mission. I have my own issues that I mentioned earlier with The Dark Knight Rises, but I also want Bruce to find a role beyond Batman and Dick take on the mantle with it all making sense though it all depends on our perceptions of the character.

[Leo656]

The problem is, if Bruce Wayne is capable of "finding a life beyond Batman" then it undoes the entire reason he was ever Batman in the first place. "Only *I* can do this. *I* have the responsibility. Cops and politicians are corrupt, and only *I* can do what is necessary to stop bad things from happening."

He HAS to take that responsibility to his grave, otherwise there's no point to his mission.

To retire would be to ignore the very same things he once set out to stop. To live a "happy life" would be an insult to those who LOST their lives while he was off pussyfooting around with Selina Kyle, lives he could have hypothetically saved. And Bruce Wayne doesn't seem like the type, to me, who can just turn a blind eye to tragedy that he could have prevented.

That's the entire REASON he ever became Batman. He can't have a happy ending or else his entire mission was disingenuous.

He dies on the job. That's the way it ends. Anything else is fairy-tale nonsense, wish-fulfillment for the audience who can't even wrap their head around WHY this guy ever became a crimefighter. It's that complete inability to ignore any injustice that he could have in theory prevented that made him what he is. And if he ever just shut that off, well... that's incredibly selfish on his part. If he LET himself have a happy ending, then he'd be complicit in ALL the evil he'd be turning a blind eye to. Because he could have stopped it, and CHOSE not to.

Some heroic characters can have a happy, "normal life" ending. Superman and Batman, no. It goes too far against who they are at their very core.

But no, I also have a lot MORE problems with DKR. It's just not a very well-made movie, is the thing. But the filmmakers not understanding who Bruce Wayne even is or why he's Batman is a huge problem, yeah. But there are more.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

The problem is, if Bruce Wayne is capable of "finding a life beyond Batman" then it undoes the entire reason he was ever Batman in the first place. "Only *I* can do this. *I* have the responsibility. Cops and politicians are corrupt, and only *I* can do what is necessary to stop bad things from happening."

He HAS to take that responsibility to his grave, otherwise there's no point to his mission.

To retire would be to ignore the very same things he once set out to stop. To live a "happy life" would be an insult to those who LOST their lives while he was off pussyfooting around with Selina Kyle, lives he could have hypothetically saved. And Bruce Wayne doesn't seem like the type, to me, who can just turn a blind eye to tragedy that he could have prevented.

That's the entire REASON he ever became Batman. He can't have a happy ending or else his entire mission was disingenuous.

He dies on the job. That's the way it ends. Anything else is fairy-tale nonsense, wish-fulfillment for the audience who can't even wrap their head around WHY this guy ever became a crimefighter. It's that complete inability to ignore any injustice that he could have in theory prevented that made him what he is. And if he ever just shut that off, well... that's incredibly selfish on his part. If he LET himself have a happy ending, then he'd be complicit in ALL the evil he'd be turning a blind eye to. Because he could have stopped it, and CHOSE not to.

Some heroic characters can have a happy, "normal life" ending. Superman and Batman, no. It goes too far against who they are at their very core.

But no, I also have a lot MORE problems with DKR. It's just not a very well-made movie, is the thing. But the filmmakers not understanding who Bruce Wayne even is or why he's Batman is a huge problem, yeah. But there are more.

I agree and understand your perspective. Its just Dick Grayson even if his own man, was created as the original legacy character and can take on the mantle. So the cores of Bruce and Dick come into conflict and well you know what I prefer. I knew Miranda Tate was Talia al Ghul from the start without any spoilers. Why could The World's Great Detective just get over Rachael like that and be seduced by her without a clue that she is behind Bane then move right on with Selina? That is more of my issue. There is the whole thing I brought up with John Blake too that I have issue with.

[Leo656]

Nolan's Bruce Wayne was way too invested in getting pussy. One of MANY fundamental misunderstandings of the character that those movies are guilty of.

Bat-Editor (the late, great) Denny O'Neil, a person with as firm an understanding of the character as you'd ever meet, said more than once that Bruce Wayne doesn't even care about sex or romantic relationships. Because they're a distraction at best and Bruce Wayne understands that romantic or sexual entanglements could potentially put him or others at risk. His mission is more important than getting his dick wet.

Per O'Neil, Bruce Wayne probably hadn't even HAD sex since he became Batman, not even with any of the many women who "Billionaire Playboy Bruce Wayne" would often be seen toying around with. Similar to the "ginger ale in the champagne glass" routine, Bruce Wayne would likewise take these supermodels out on dates, show them a good time, and then give them some money on the way out the door with the instruction that they're more than welcome to TELL everyone that they had sex. But it's all part of the charade. Bruce Wayne is a voluntary celibate, who channels ALL of his base urges into "The Mission". That's the character.

So yeah, the fact that in modern times it's become hip to try and add a layer of "romance" to the Batman character really irritates me. It comes from people who simply don't understand the character, like not even a little bit. Bruce Wayne knew before he put the mask on that love, romance and sex were NOT part of the equation. They're not even priorities. "The War" comes first, "Protecting his 'family' second. Nothing else even makes the list.

One of that movie's MANY failures was in how the guy was such an idiot that he dropped his pants for the first woman who showed any interest. And look where it got him. And for all he knows, Selina Kyle is eventually gonna turn on him, too, same as Talia. Yet he quits being Batman to run off with her, despite spending literally HOURS in her company beforehand. Gimme a goddamn break.

Part of why "Batman Begins" is my favorite in that trilogy, is that it's the ONLY movie of the three that presents Bruce Wayne correctly. "The Dark Knight" might be a better overall movie, but Bruce's abrupt pivot from "Cops can't be trusted" to "Harvey Dent is handsome, I trust him to save Gotham, I can retire now" along with his sadsack pining for Rachel just shows how clearly the writers misunderstood the character. He wouldn't DO these things. They got him PERFECT in the first movie, and by the third he was 100% out of character on every level. It's SO frustrating.