When did Star Wars become a bad franchise?

[neatoman]

I'm sure this topic will have a fair consensus and that most people will agree.

[Andrew NDB]

Most would say beginning with Last Jedi, but I say it was right out of the gate with Force Awakens. It didn't kill the franchise but it showed us exactly what to expect right out of the gate: a big fat return and recreation of ANH, except shi**y.

[ResidentEvil7]

The only Star Wars I liked are the first 6 movies from 1977 - 2005 and the Ewok Adventure with the dreaded Gorax. The sequels and TV series and video games can blow chunks for all I care.

[Galactus]

Empire Strikes Back....ok not really but people tend to overlook that almost every mainline Star Wars movie was hated by the fans at the time of release and portrayed as the thing that was going end the franchise. When I said Empire I wasn't entirely joking, it was so divisive at the time the Star Wars Fan Club shut down because of all the negativity. The original and Revenge of the Sith are the only ones that were both well received upon release and have remained popular.

[tmntpower1988]

I love A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. I felt like the Ewoks sort of ruined Return of the Jedi a bit, the movie still had it's moments though. Palpatine was the best part of the movie, I think about that scene a lot where he is killing Luke with his force lightning and Darth Vader saving Luke from Palpatine. The Phantom Menace was ok, I loved that lightsaber battle at the end with Darth Maul though. Can't remember all of Attack of the Clones, I'll get round to watching that again soon. Loved Revenge of the Sith. Don't really care much for the Disney Star Wars movies.

[Autbot_Benz]

Easy when Kathleen Kennedy rose to power

[Andrew NDB]

"I wonder what would happen with Luke, Leia and Han one day in Episode VII, VIII, and IX!" was like a magical thing to wonder about for so long. Made more magical still because it sounded like for so long it was something we were never, ever going to get. And then the sale to Disney and we got the VII, VIII and IX that we did and just totally, radioactively popped that balloon and scorched the earth around it.

I guarantee you, the "idea" in the heads of almost ANY fans of what a sequel trilogy could be like would be infinitely better than what Kathleen Kennedy presided over.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm sure this topic will have a fair consensus and that most people will agree.

December 15, 2017.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Most would say beginning with Last Jedi, but I say it was right out of the gate with Force Awakens. It didn't kill the franchise but it showed us exactly what to expect right out of the gate: a big fat return and recreation of ANH, except shi**y.

I don’t know man. It was definitely objectively a bad script, but it had some interesting concepts and world building (although NOTHING like what I imagine a post-Return galaxy to look like), as well as some emotional beats that hit. Rey, Finn and Poe all had potential and the nostalgia factor worked on some level.

But now it’s unwatchable because Last Jedi just takes a frothing sticky piss all over the emotional cliff hanger. In its first 10 minutes.

I can’t even get into it all again… but I randomly get so pissed when I remember how they had Rose jeopardize the entire Resistance over a PETA public service announcement and then again for her bull **** “We won’t win by killing those we hate!” Yes you will. That’s how wars are won.


God damn.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I don’t know man. It was definitely objectively a bad script, but it had some interesting concepts and world building (although NOTHING like what I imagine a post-Return galaxy to look like), as well as some emotional beats that hit. Rey, Finn and Poe all had potential and the nostalgia factor worked on some level.

More like world deconstructing. Literally, everything Luke, Leia and Han fought for was all for nothing. The OT trilogy no longer matters. The Empire just came back and within thirty minutes the New Republic was suddenly "the Rebels" again and they didn't even bother to have it make sense. Han is a smuggler again, there's a new Death Star, nobody even had any kids in the 30 years between trilogies except Han and Leia had 1 kid (and we know what happens to him), etc., etc.. It's all pretty terrible.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

More like world deconstructing. Literally, everything Luke, Leia and Han fought for was all for nothing. The OT trilogy no longer matters. The Empire just came back and within thirty minutes the New Republic was suddenly "the Rebels" again and they didn't even bother to have it make sense. Han is a smuggler again, there's a new Death Star, nobody even had any kids in the 30 years between trilogies except Han and Leia had 1 kid (and we know what happens to him), etc., etc.. It's all pretty terrible.

Han and Leia had a kid? Sorry just so out of it. For me Star Wars ended with Revenge of the Sith going into the OG Trilogy.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Han and Leia had a kid?

Ben Solo, aka Kylo Ren, the Vader stand-in of the sequel trilogy.

Leia and Han had several kids in the post-ROTJ universe of the novels and comics, with one of them also turning to the dark side, but Disney declared them all non-canon when they made the movies.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

More like world deconstructing. Literally, everything Luke, Leia and Han fought for was all for nothing. The OT trilogy no longer matters. The Empire just came back and within thirty minutes the New Republic was suddenly "the Rebels" again and they didn't even bother to have it make sense. Han is a smuggler again, there's a new Death Star, nobody even had any kids in the 30 years between trilogies except Han and Leia had 1 kid (and we know what happens to him), etc., etc.. It's all pretty terrible.

Yeah it wasn’t great. You had to do a lot of reading between the lines, but even then it still sucked. The new Republic is just so cucked and pacifist that they can’t officially engage the First Order? I guess lol.

I would have enjoyed it more if the First Order was like a punk rock version of the Empire. Instead they were somehow incredibly well funded and EXTREMELY powerful. Like they never missed a beat. They should have been in shambles, which would have explained why the Republic didn’t take them seriously.

I guess what I liked was the concept of stealing children to groom them into storm troopers, Finn was an interesting character for that.


Was there was ever any follow up on Finn’s parents connection to Luke and the rebellion? Snoke got jobbed and I hear they **** the bed with the Knights of Ten

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Was there was ever any follow up on Finn’s parents connection to Luke and the rebellion?

There wasn't any follow-up on anything. And by the time we got to "Rise of Skywalker" there wasn't any time for anything except everybody zipping around on JJ's stupid fetch quest that didn't even make any sense (Kylo travels straight to Palpatine at the beginning... but then suddenly needs the codex to get there? huh?).

[sdp]

I don't know why people back then praised Episode VII, it's not woke or Last Jedi that ruined star wars, everything VII did f-cked the previous movies up. I remember all the heat I took for being a "contrarian" and disliking episode VII. There's nothing they could've done to save the trilog after force awakens. I still want the star wars star wars Episode VII the trailers promised us

https://miscrave.com/articles/promised-sequel-trilogy/

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

More like world deconstructing. Literally, everything Luke, Leia and Han fought for was all for nothing. The OT trilogy no longer matters. The Empire just came back and within thirty minutes the New Republic was suddenly "the Rebels" again and they didn't even bother to have it make sense. Han is a smuggler again, there's a new Death Star, nobody even had any kids in the 30 years between trilogies except Han and Leia had 1 kid (and we know what happens to him), etc., etc.. It's all pretty terrible.

[member_removed]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Yeah it wasn’t great. You had to do a lot of reading between the lines, but even then it still sucked. The new Republic is just so cucked and pacifist that they can’t officially engage the First Order? I guess lol.

I would have enjoyed it more if the First Order was like a punk rock version of the Empire. Instead they were somehow incredibly well funded and EXTREMELY powerful. Like they never missed a beat. They should have been in shambles, which would have explained why the Republic didn’t take them seriously.

I guess what I liked was the concept of stealing children to groom them into storm troopers, Finn was an interesting character for that.


Was there was ever any follow up on Finn’s parents connection to Luke and the rebellion? Snoke got jobbed and I hear they **** the bed with the Knights of Ten

I whole heartily agree, The First order should've been a shambles. Storm trooper armour made from a combination of clone and storm armour, etc. Inexperienced boy generals (which, we kind of got with Hux). Like skin head neo nazis compared to German war machine! Rowdy hooligans rather than loyal well-trained soldiers.

The Knights of Ren, should've been like ISIS or Hezbollah, Sith fanatics with little to no force training. Which become allied with The Order over they're hate of the new republic.

And the republic should've been seen as a big bloated govt organisation with little to no concept of the actual threat.

I still find it difficult to believe Luke would turn his back on the Republic, the Jedi Order and has family.

Originally Posted by sdp

I don't know why people back then praised Episode VII, it's not woke or Last Jedi that ruined star wars, everything VII did f-cked the previous movies up. I remember all the heat I took for being a "contrarian" and disliking episode VII. There's nothing they could've done to save the trilog after force awakens. I still want the star wars star wars Episode VII the trailers promised us

https://miscrave.com/articles/promised-sequel-trilogy/

You were absolutory right, it's remake of Ep IV with nothing new to offer.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Honestly I enjoy RotJ the most of all. It may not be the "best" film but I find it the most enjoyable. Episode IV is my favorite.

The opening crawl of Phantom, the lightsabre fight with Maul, Yoda pulling out his lightsabre in Clones, the theatres came alive the undeniable energy in the room, there was denying it. (I regret watching Sith in an empty cinema on opening day in a small town now).

Not great movies, but at least it was a consist trilogy.

[frank_one]

He became a bad franchise in the exact moment we realized the sequel trilogy was finally happening, with Ford, Hamill and Fisher but it wasn't as we expected and there was no coming back.

[Cowabung-Gal]

The moment George Lucas sold his baby into corporate slavery.

[Wednesday's Serial]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

The moment George Lucas sold his baby into corporate slavery.

Yup. 100%.

I haven't seen anyone talk about how beyond the screen-based stuff, to me the franchise died when this happened because it somehow kept continuity between books, and comics, and any other media. It was a real achievement.

I still feel bad that Dark Horse got screwed by this since Marvel got the comic rights, and for what?