Post your TMNT hot takes here.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

[*]The Archie TMNT series is a bad comic, it showed some promise towards the end but for the vast majority of its run it was an overly preachy, nonsensical comic with bafflingly bad artwork. I can't just pretend the last 20 or fewer issues of a 70 issue long comic redeemed it.

Heresy!

Originally Posted by Mr. Entertainment

3. I don't like the whole Tang Amaya is actually Lady Shredder -> Mistress -> Headhunter.

Heresy!

And honestly, I wish Carlson just had Karai as Lady Shredder in the Urban Legends conclusion, but maybe Andrew can fill the gap on why he didn't do that.

I think that’s the misdirection he was going for. It would have felt repetitive after she pretended to be Shredder in CAW. Carlson always loved a good twist.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I should probably get around to mine, though it might only be a hot take in the context of this forum.

I think that every iteration of TMNT (Except Rise and Mutant Mayhem, which I have great distaste for) are enjoyable for what they are, accurate to Mirage or not, and worthy of being "taken seriously" (even in the case of the 87 show, as much as you can take an 80s cartoon seriouly). Even with IDW, which has sucked for a while, the stuff from the pre #100 era is still worth reading. None of them are perfect.

I also think that every version, even the 87 show, have had some good ideas that are worth exploring further, and shouldn't be discounted just because of their source. (Even Rise to some degree, but NOT Mutant Mayhem. Even I can find something good to say about rise, but I have nothing good to say about MM).

I think this may be a neutral take in a wider context, but it seems a hot take here.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Even Rise to some degree, but NOT Mutant Mayhem. Even I can find something good to say about rise, but I have nothing good to say about MM.

Is it a hot take question to ask would you choose Bay's trash over Mutant Mayhem? Not judging, just want a broader perspective.

[ToTheNines]

I personally would say 2014 was better than Mutant Mayhem, but OotS was worse.

EDIT: I should point out that is me looking at those movies as objectively as possible. To put them in the context of the cultural zeitgeist, I look at Mutant Mayhem as a harmless baby movie and I don’t have particularly strong feelings about it. But 2014 set TMNT back 20 years and I will always hate it for that.

That could have been our shot. This was the same year as Winter Solider and Guardians of the Galaxy. One year after Man of Steel. ****ing ANT-MAN got an honest shot at the big screen and did well the following year. There is no reason Paramount didn’t at least attempt to bring the comics to life.

TMNT could have even worked with the “Cinematic Universe” fad of those days. Casey, Fugitoid, Shredder, Karai, hell even Splinter could have carried his own movie if they wanted. I’ll never understand it.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Is it a hot take question to ask would you choose Bay's trash over Mutant Mayhem? Not judging, just want a broader perspective.

I would absolutely take the Bay movies over Mutant Mayhem. Mutant Mayhem is terrible. Weirdly enough, I actually like the 2016 one more compared to the 2014 one, mostly because the 2014 one felt like it was embarrassed to be Ninja Turtles, but the 2016 one was completely unashamed and tried to essentially be a live action 87 show. Which, if you already don't like, would not appeal to you at all, but if you enjoy the 87 show, then you might enjoy the 2016 movie. Though outside of the movie, there is something to be said of the whole "this was the shot" perspective. It's honestly the only reason I'm not totally opposed to a Last Ronin movie, since it technically could finally get people to see adult potential in TMNT.

And while we're here, I think Eric Sachs as Shredder could have been fine, if they had gone the mantle route. All it would have taken was one line, "I was inspired by a Japanese warlord named Oroku Saki" or something like that. As it stands, having the two characters just made that particular story more incoherent. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good choice overall, just that it could have been made to work in that specific iteration.

[CyberCubed]

Those awful noses on the 2014 movie Turtles just killed it. They looked like 4 Hulk's with humanoid noses. I was traumatized back in 2014 when the designs were revealed and it's like 12 years later and I have yet to fully recover. Eric Sachs was a god awful idea, but I wish the actual Shredder got something to do.

All in all it doesn't matter now, they were two poor movies that have been completely forgotten about. Like even casuals don't talk about them, so the "damage" was pretty much forgotten about. People still talk about the 90's trilogy movies and the 2007 movie, people forget the two Bay movies even happened.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

They looked like 4 Hulk's with humanoid noses.

TBF I think the hulk designs worked whithin the context of the movie. I wouldn't mind it if someone actually made good figures based off those designs.

Eric Sachs was a god awful idea, but I wish the actual Shredder got something to do.

If they had actually kept Sachs as Shredder, it would've been a better movie.

[/QUOTE]
All in all it doesn't matter now, they were two poor movies that have been completely forgotten about. Like even casuals don't talk about them, so the "damage" was pretty much forgotten about. People still talk about the 90's trilogy movies and the 2007 movie, people forget the two Bay movies even happened.[/QUOTE]

This is true, though the movie is a decade old, the kids who might've grown up with it would likely start getting nostalgic in the next couple of years, first one was somewhat of a success. I don't know if that's actually going to be the case, I don't think merchandise was too successful either.

[Mirror image]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Those awful noses on the 2014 movie Turtles just killed it. They looked like 4 Hulk's with humanoid noses. I was traumatized back in 2014 when the designs were revealed and it's like 12 years later and I have yet to fully recover. Eric Sachs was a god awful idea, but I wish the actual Shredder got something to do.

All in all it doesn't matter now, they were two poor movies that have been completely forgotten about. Like even casuals don't talk about them, so the "damage" was pretty much forgotten about. People still talk about the 90's trilogy movies and the 2007 movie, people forget the two Bay movies even happened.

Really only Michelangelo has a human like nose.

[TheLabRat]

1. Making Ninja Turtles like X-Men was never a good idea because they have no reason to be guardians. They care more about seeking and figuring out their own existence than pursuing the common good.

2. If Mikey didn't survive and became Splinter, there would have been no reason to make The Last Ronin sequel. Storyline, the new generation of turtles and Marie are boring.

3. TMNT: Deviations is probably the best "bad future" elseworld story, even better than 2003 SAINW episode. When Shredder thought he had won and was at the top, he didn't expect that what happened next was to fall into hell.

The four turtles survived, but have to face the worst-case scenario of ‘‘’everybody is dead, which might be a more interesting darker ending.

[Mr. Entertainment]

Originally Posted by TheLabRat

1. Making Ninja Turtles like X-Men was never a good idea because they have no reason to be guardians.

Can't argue there, but that's what the TPTB want I suppose.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

sorcerers, psychics and time travellers that nobody bats an eye at?

Most people aren't aware of them.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I've said this before, but Irma is hotter than April.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Most people aren't aware of them.

I'm not so sure characters like Renet can be considered unknown or obscure.

[ToTheNines]

Hot take: The Rise movie is incredible. High stakes, super emotional, great time travel logic, awesome action and visuals. I’m not the biggest fan of the show, but the movie fully legitimizes those turtles for me.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Hot take: The Rise movie is incredible. High stakes, super emotional, great time travel logic, awesome action and visuals. I’m not the biggest fan of the show, but the movie fully legitimizes those turtles for me.

Well, it's certainly fine for what it is. Not entirely sure why they felt the need to retcon the crackhead from being the official Casey to just being his mom but whatever.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well, it's certainly fine for what it is. Not entirely sure why they felt the need to retcon the crackhead from being the official Casey to just being his mom but whatever.

We wouldn't want future versions to get ideas of taking another crack at the concept. Plus with the finale being rushed, it was likely an idea they just threw in.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm not so sure characters like Renet can be considered unknown or obscure.

I'm talking about in-universe. The average person on Earth wake up in the morning, take the car or bus to the job, return home in the afternoon, watch television in the home in the evening and then go to his or her own bed without knowing about their existence.

[ticktack]

Originally Posted by Mad Dog McMutt

I've said this before, but Irma is hotter than April.

Her attire says she's "Timid and doesn't grab attention".
While her personality is expressive and has bravery (somewhere unusual for a female).


_______________________________________

One negative:

The running gag about failed love life - never landing a man, always being the joke when she tried.
• It reflects a lazy ‘80s trope where a female character without romance was automatically “pathetic.”
• This framed her as the “comic relief” because of her failure, not because of clever humor.
• The gag often made her look oblivious, like she didn’t notice she was being mocked — which reads as mean-spirited writing.

Bottom line

So yeah — you’re right.
Her only real flaw was how the writers used her as a punching bag gag. That’s why some fans find her portrayal frustrating: they like her bravery and quirks, but hate that the script punished her for not fitting the “ideal woman” mold.


+ Irma, potential appeal in contrast.
- Irma, casual misogny as a joke.



Edit:
Non-spoiler.

Spoiler:

So a modern take would keep her funny, quirky, and brave, but with agency and dignity — she’s never the punchline for being single, timid, or awkward.

YES

ChatGPT:

Exactly — that’s the heart of it.

• Funny & quirky -> her humor comes from personality and timing, not desperation.

• Brave -> she steps up when needed, even if clumsy or scared.

• Agency & dignity -> she makes her own choices, calls people out (like Casey), and isn’t defined by anyone else’s approval.

• No punchline -> being single, timid, or awkward is part of her charm, never a source of mockery.

She becomes a fully rounded, relatable character — someone fans can love and respect.



https://www.tumblr.com/o4o41/791843165012426752/indie-tmnt-comic-dub-episode-38-indie-tmnt?source=share

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ticktack

Her attire says she's "Timid and doesn't grab attention".
While her personality is expressive and has bravery (somewhere unusual for a female).


_______________________________________

One negative:

The running gag about failed love life - never landing a man, always being the joke when she tried.
• It reflects a lazy ‘80s trope where a female character without romance was automatically “pathetic.”
• This framed her as the “comic relief” because of her failure, not because of clever humor.
• The gag often made her look oblivious, like she didn’t notice she was being mocked — which reads as mean-spirited writing.

Bottom line

So yeah — you’re right.
Her only real flaw was how the writers used her as a punching bag gag. That’s why some fans find her portrayal frustrating: they like her bravery and quirks, but hate that the script punished her for not fitting the “ideal woman” mold.


+ Irma, potential appeal in contrast.
- Irma, casual misogny as a joke.

Shesus. You really can't turn it off, can you?

Originally Posted by Mr. Entertainment

And honestly, I wish Carlson just had Karai as Lady Shredder in the Urban Legends conclusion, but maybe Andrew can fill the gap on why he didn't do that.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I think that’s the misdirection he was going for. It would have felt repetitive after she pretended to be Shredder in CAW. Carlson always loved a good twist.

And it would make 0 sense. Karai would come to New York to challenge Raphael for the mantle of Shredder? Why would she need to do that, or WANT to do that? She's already in charge of the Japanese Foot and above everybody... so let's come to New York and assert leadership over the New York Foot? Which she already oversees? Why would she want to seek a demotion?

For Gary, it was always going to be Karai's (apparently) murdered daughter from CAW as Lady Shredder. Gary set this up slightly earlier in the volume with the Foot council mentioning Karai had been missing of late. This was because she was tending to her daughter.

Though I admit as a kid, when I first read those comics I assumed Lady Shredder was Karai. Even though that wouldn't make any sense.

[ticktack]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Shesus. You really can't turn it off, can you?

What's your problem!