Is Turtlemania more of an 80s or 90s phenomenon, in your mind?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yeah, there was no real TMNT around at the time for whose good name NT:TNM could tarnish beyond the Image comic, which was hardly apples to apples. All we had to hope for at the time was a nebulous fourth movie that kept sounding worse and worse with every snippet that would come out about it. That maybe, maybe it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it sounded like.

The bit about "the Turtles being aliens" or something? I remember the outrage over it at the time.

And, ofc course. Eric Sachs as Shredder.

They, surprisingly, ended up going back on those ideas. I'm still not sure whether it was due to fan backlash...

[Barkworm]

Next Mutation somewhat similar to TMNT 2007, it didn‘t have any impact on anything or anyone.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Prowler

The bit about "the Turtles being aliens" or something? I remember the outrage over it at the time.

And, ofc course. Eric Sachs as Shredder.

They, surprisingly, ended up going back on those ideas. I'm still not sure whether it was due to fan backlash...

No, way before that. The whole Kirby the 5th turtle thing.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Barkworm

Next Mutation somewhat similar to TMNT 2007, it didn‘t have any impact on anything or anyone.

I dunno, man. TNM at least is memorable somewhat for being ****** and introducing a female turtle(and now we have Jennika LOL). But 2007? It's not a particularly good movie, but also not a POS of a movie. It's just... dull. I remember the PS2 tie-in Prince of Persia clone video game of it better than the movie itself.

What's worse? being slightly remembered because you sucked, or not being remembered at all because you were just boring?

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

No, way before that. The whole Kirby the 5th turtle thing.

****ing hell, I have zero recollection of that. I'm even afraid to ask

[ToTheNines]

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Yet, no one seems to care about TNM these days. Most of us will say it sucked, sure, but just leave it at it. There's no "hatred" for it like there is for Bay Turtles or Rise, for example. I guess it' because TNM was never that relevant in the first place, which means most casuals don't even remember it. Thus, it's not a "threat" to the TMNT property anymore and stopped being so after it went off air in 1997/1998.

I think the point with The Next Mutation is no one back then was expecting the show to be good, actually no one was expecting it at all. There were no expectations as most of the first generation of fans had already moved on, so when TNM came out to be bad no one really cared. Whatever, the Turtles were dead anyway.
On the other hand, there were great expectations for the Bay movies as it was the first time in decades a new big budget modern Hollywood movie of the Turtles was being made, with famous actors and all. There was so much more at stake and a lot more hype!

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by frank_one

On the other hand, there were great expectations for the Bay movies as it was the first time in decades a new big budget modern Hollywood movie of the Turtles was being made

And the first PG-13 Turtles movie ever, something we could only dream about since 1990. Wasted. There was definitely some concerted hope that it would end up OK, though. And beyond the things they couldn't fix in post (like Hulk, bulletproof Turtles, Splinter ties to anything) 2014 wasn't even that insultingly bad. It's kind of a fascinating Frankenstein of a thing.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I still think it they should have stuck to their guns, and that it would have resulted in a better (but still not great) movie if they had just had Eric Sachs be the Shredder, rather than stapling in a completely unrelated character at the last second. All they would have had to have done was make it clear it was a legacy title, and throw in a line about how he was inspired by an ancient Japanese warlord, Oroku Saki, that he read up on. There's already a precedent for that sort of thing. It still wouldn't have been great, but it would have been a much more cohesive movie.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

I still think it they should have stuck to their guns, and that it would have resulted in a better (but still not great) movie if they had just had Eric Sachs be the Shredder, rather than stapling in a completely unrelated character at the last second. All they would have had to have done was make it clear it was a legacy title, and throw in a line about how he was inspired by an ancient Japanese warlord, Oroku Saki, that he read up on. There's already a precedent for that sort of thing. It still wouldn't have been great, but it would have been a much more cohesive movie.

Maybe, but the fan backlash against Eric Sachs as Shredder was way too strong. Changing a character's nationality or origin is always risky, and a character like Shredder is particularly tied to his own nationality. THE Shredder should always be Oroku Saki. Not some American guy named Eric Sachs.

[ToTheNines]

It’s been 12 years and I still get pissed off just thinking about that lol

[Andrew NDB]

There could've been a way to do that. Like "The Shredder" is this shadowy Baba Yaga-like figure in the New York criminal underworld only whispered about and many assume isn't real. So this rich white guy Erich Sachs assumes the mantle in a less discreet way for himself and own ends... and then the REAL Shredder (Oroku Saki) shows up, makes his intro and makes mincemeat out of Sachs to send a message. Probably taking whatever he wants from what's left of Sachs' business empire. Weapons, tech probably.

That could literally be the opening scene of the movie, right there.

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

I still think it they should have stuck to their guns, and that it would have resulted in a better (but still not great) movie if they had just had Eric Sachs be the Shredder, rather than stapling in a completely unrelated character at the last second. All they would have had to have done was make it clear it was a legacy title, and throw in a line about how he was inspired by an ancient Japanese warlord, Oroku Saki, that he read up on. There's already a precedent for that sort of thing. It still wouldn't have been great, but it would have been a much more cohesive movie.

I'd love to read the original script from when production began. I don't have the quote in front of me, but from memory, one of the TMNT actors said they filmed roughly three different scripts. The original, then the Bay version (once Michael Bay saw the rough cut), and finally the whatever we saw on screens.

The big sequences would still be there. The snow chase or whatever. They were in active previz. I'd love to see the original vision that the director started rolling cameras with.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

It’s been 12 years and I still get pissed off just thinking about that lol

That was when CyberCubed lost his marbles. He kept saying it 5 times a day "SHREDDER AS A WHITE MAN NOOOOOOO!" and even though most people hated the idea of White Shredder as well, they couldn't bear to read Cubed's complaints anymore lol

[Zog The Magnificent]

One time Shredder was an alien, using the exact same line of reasoning: ultimately inspired by the REAl Shredder, an ancient warlord named Oroku Saki. As long as you've got that line of reasoning, you're not actually changing his nationality, you're just having another character take up the mantle. Same with Lady Shredder, same with Raphael, and same with Ch'rell. I still think it could have worked. (Still not great mind you, but at least better).

[Looney Turtles]

90's. It was the 1987 series that kicked off Turtlemania, but it wasn't until the 90's that we started getting all the movies and video games.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Looney Turtles

90's. It was the 1987 series that kicked off Turtlemania, but it wasn't until the 90's that we started getting all the movies and video games.

Agreed. I was born in 87 so I didn’t get into the turtles till well into the 90s. Just always sits in my mind as a 90s franchise even though the original mirage comics and cartoon series were in the 80s.