How popular were the Mirage comics in the 80s?

[MrPliggins]

For a real-time look, read the letters page of #15. Fans were upset that Eastman and laird were doing separate issues and handing them off completely on occasion.
I discovered Mirage right around that time, so when people were dropping off, I was coming on.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The first 11 issues probably sold the best, when Eastman/Laird were together. After that it likely declined till Return to New York which I assume had a sales bump, then a huge decline for the guest writer years till City at War started, but by then in real life a large number of years had passed and most of those original fans were probably gone by then (even if they went back to get back issues later).

Also remember Mirage issues had a weird schedule, wasn't there like 2-3 month gap between new issues at some point? I can't imagine following the comic as it was happening, like you'd completely lose interest between issues due to how long it would take for them to come out.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

They were doing other stuff. Eastman had Tundra and some other endeavors. I’m pretty sure Laird had his kid around that time. Plus they were constantly being dragged into meetings and getting sued by everyone and their brother.


I think about this all the time when I look at the release schedule of Vol. 1.

We all know how agonizing 1 month can be when you’re following a good comic, but Mirage would have eons between canon issues.

Interesting. I didn't know about the inconsistent schedule of Mirage comics.

As for fans losing patience, sure, but at the same time... this was what, 40 years ago? That's before the internet and way before the current age of instant gratification we're living in. People were more patient back then. They also had to wait for their favourite tv show or movie to air on TV on a certain time and date in order to watch it. There were no online forums or places like Reddit or Twitter for fans to vent and moan about their favourite series every single day.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Yeah that’s so funny. Present day, no one would bat an eye. But imagine some judge born in like ****in 1930 having to hear some of these cases lol.

“Teenage Mutant what the hell now?”

This reminds me of 2006-2008 when The Irate Gamer was ripping off the Angry Video Game Nerd and AVGN fans said that James Rolfe should sue Chris Bores for it. It never happened, but just imagine being a 50-60 year old judge being assigned to a case involving two youtubers who review old ****** games. Imagine said judge also looking at those videos with all the cursing, pooping on games, etc.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Interesting. I didn't know about the inconsistent schedule of Mirage comics.

As for fans losing patience, sure, but at the same time... this was what, 40 years ago? That's before the internet and way before the current age of instant gratification we're living in. People were more patient back then. They also had to wait for their favourite tv show or movie to air on TV on a certain time and date in order to watch it. There were no online forums or places like Reddit or Twitter for fans to vent and moan about their favourite series every single day.

I see what you’re saying, but even in those days comic fans were used to monthly installments of whatever they were reading.

To get specific, TMNT #28/“Sons of the Silent Age” came out in February 1990. But it wasn’t until early 1992 that they got back to telling “canon” stories consistently. Granted, some of the comics that came out in between were very fine books, but you also had the Hedden & McWeeny crap, etc.

And even from there, it was roughly another 6 months until City and War started.

This reminds me of 2006-2008 when The Irate Gamer was ripping off the Angry Video Game Nerd and AVGN fans said that James Rolfe should sue Chris Bores for it. It never happened, but just imagine being a 50-60 year old judge being assigned to a case involving two youtubers who review old ****** games. Imagine said judge also looking at those videos with all the cursing, pooping on games, etc.

lol hell yeah.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I see what you’re saying, but even in those days comic fans were used to monthly installments of whatever they were reading.

To get specific, TMNT #28/“Sons of the Silent Age” came out in February 1990. But it wasn’t until early 1992 that they got back to telling “canon” stories consistently. Granted, some of the comics that came out in between were very fine books, but you also had the Hedden & McWeeny crap, etc.

And even from there, it was roughly another 6 months until City and War started.




lol hell yeah.

That's what people were saying about Chris Chan. Having the people of the court having to review all his documentary videos for context.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

That's what people were saying about Chris Chan. Having the people of the court having to review all his documentary videos for context.

Jesus that's probably even worse

[Great Hierophant]

TMNT started the B&W boom almost single-handedly and sold unheard of numbers for an independent book for the time. Just as importantly it survived the bust when just about every other B&W book not named Cerebus or Usagi Yojimbo went under or went to color.

With fairly reliable, if self-reported numbers, Mirage sold over 2.3 million TMNT single-issue comic books (reprints included) from TMNT #1 to TMNT #17 (1984-198. So I'd say they were pretty popular. Maybe not Spider-Man or X-Men or Batman levels of popularity, but far more popular than any independent comic before it. (Since is a more arguable point.)

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Great Hierophant

With fairly reliable, if self-reported numbers, Mirage sold over 2.3 million TMNT single-issue comic books (reprints included) from TMNT #1 to TMNT #17 (1984-198.

Well, it is not that much. If you consider 2.3 million / 17 = 135.294

[cormano]

Originally Posted by Great Hierophant

TMNT started the B&W boom almost single-handedly and sold unheard of numbers for an independent book for the time. Just as importantly it survived the bust when just about every other B&W book not named Cerebus or Usagi Yojimbo went under or went to color.

With fairly reliable, if self-reported numbers, Mirage sold over 2.3 million TMNT single-issue comic books (reprints included) from TMNT #1 to TMNT #17 (1984-198. So I'd say they were pretty popular. Maybe not Spider-Man or X-Men or Batman levels of popularity, but far more popular than any independent comic before it. (Since is a more arguable point.)

Yeah, the comic literally started the Independent/B&W comic revolution. The sales numbers were insanely high. I don't know the numbers, but I bet the guest era sold just as well if not better (at least on first printings) than the original Eatman and Laird issues because the cartoon and movies and music tour and everything else was huge and it was the 90's comics boom. It wasn't the same fan base that loved the first run, but there were more of them.

The idea that this was some little indie book barely getting by is ridiculous. That was what they expected, but the first (only planned) issue was so huge that they had to keep it going. I would bet the majority of the guest era issues still outsold anything IDW has ever done.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Interesting. I didn't know about the inconsistent schedule of Mirage comics.

As for fans losing patience, sure, but at the same time... this was what, 40 years ago? That's before the internet and way before the current age of instant gratification we're living in. People were more patient back then. They also had to wait for their favourite tv show or movie to air on TV on a certain time and date in order to watch it. There were no online forums or places like Reddit or Twitter for fans to vent and moan about their favourite series every single day

I have evidence of my claim. Here’s a transcription of a letter that got published in TMNT #8 back in 1986:

“ Turtles #6 -- still my favorite title but loosing ground fast. C'mon guys, #5 and #6 are terrible (it started with #4)-- what's going on? Victims of too much
praise? Getting sloppy... yes, I think so.

The classics #1, 2, and 3 rank a 10, Raphael 9+, and Michelangelo 9+, Looking at all your issues it seems to me that #5 and #6 are terribly over-cluttered. Waiting 3-4 months between issues is a long time to wait... we the consumers expect to see the best from you guys. Or are you blinded by success?

Already with Michelangelo the art is slipping but the story makes up for it. Let's see the turtles big and bold again, not cramped into small panels.

The turtles are best in the city fighting thugs, killers, muggers in the alleys, rooftops, streets and sewers. This space stuff sucks -- Star Wars is dead! After the Cerebus Issue, please get back to the basics, strong story and plot, and please start and finish the story in one issue. TMNT seems to work better that way. I'll be glad to see this space opera end. Also it is very violent -- "taking off heads"? Kids read this, you know. “Kick ass”? "Damn" all the time. You guys are an influence. Please consider that.

Despite all of that, I'll wait and see what #9 brings before 1 drop/continue collecting.
Color would help the turtles.”

Larry Mindy
Chicago, IL

[neatoman]

I really hate it when people talk about how the FW cartoon was more popular than the Mirage Studios comics. Of course it was, the poorly made piece of crap was literally beamed into you house for free provided that you could stand the insipid advertisement that allowed you to watch it for no extra cost which applied to almost any other programming, of course something like that was seen more than a mail order comic book. The thing could have been a complete flop and seen for the soulless piece of thinly veiled advertisement it was and it still would have been more well known than what it was based on. It applies to practically every single Marvel and DC property as well, why the hell did you think the average person used to think Batman was about shark repellent or that Aquaman's sole power was to talk to fish?

By its very nature, TV programs receive more attention than print media. It has to, the entire model relies on it! It's practically meaningless to claim the FW show was more well known, it had nothing to with appeal or quality, the stupid thing had to and could be shown to way more people! That was the entire point!

[frank_one]

"Star Wars is dead". If only little Larry Mindy from Chicago could have known. I wonder how old he was and how long he kept buying the comics.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by frank_one

"Star Wars is dead". If only little Larry Mindy from Chicago could have known. I wonder how old he was and how long he kept buying the comics.

pretty abysmal take all around. I was also curious about him, looked him up on Google and Facebook but got nothing.

How are you gonna rate TMNT #3 a 10/10 but then hate the space arc? Weirdo.

[Andrew NDB]

I admit, I've always been fascinated by those old lettercols, even in the late 1990s/early 2000s when I read them originally.

Like you read one at CAW era, or before and wonder, "What happened to this guy? Did he like where TMNT went in Vol. 2, or 3, or 4? Is he still a fan?" A lot of them even had fully printed addresses.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

How are you gonna rate TMNT #3 a 10/10 but then hate the space arc? Weirdo.

The space arc was an unexpected twist, you have to think the Turtles was still at the begining, a concept in the making. That guy was enjoying the series as a street level martial art comics with a touch of sci-fi and then, all at once, the turtles are on another planet with talking triceratops and laser guns. Imagine seeing it happen in a Daredevil issue! Also, not everyone is a fan of space fantasy.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I admit, I've always been fascinated by those old lettercols, even in the late 1990s/early 2000s when I read them originally.

Like you read one at CAW era, or before and wonder, "What happened to this guy? Did he like where TMNT went in Vol. 2, or 3, or 4? Is he still a fan?" A lot of them even had fully printed addresses.

Yeah, same!

Something else that always interests me is when I see they’re from some podunk town that I’m familiar with, and I can only imagine it was even more rural 30-40 years ago. It makes me wonder where the hell they were getting their comics. I guess they’d drive to the city every month or so.

It’s also funny to think about everyone writing into those early Vol. 1 issues were mostly all my parents are, if not older.

Originally Posted by frank_one

The space arc was an unexpected twist, you have to think the Turtles was still at the begining, a concept in the making. That guy was enjoying the series as a street level martial art comics with a touch of sci-fi and then, all at once, the turtles are on another planet with talking triceratops and laser guns. Imagine seeing it happen in a Daredevil issue! Also, not everyone is a fan of space fantasy.

Fair points.

I always liked the space arc and thought the long car chase in #3 was pretty tedious. I mean, it’s a very special comic book by virtue of being from that magical time where it was just Eastman and Laird doing it all themselves.

But it’s definitely a weak spot in that early era. For me, at least.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Yeah, same!

Something else that always interests me is when I see they’re from some podunk town that I’m familiar with, and I can only imagine it was even more rural 30-40 years ago. It makes me wonder where the hell they were getting their comics. I guess they’d drive to the city every month or so.

It’s also funny to think about everyone writing into those early Vol. 1 issues were mostly all my parents are, if not older.

It's also a little bit sad reading some of them. Because the overwhelming likelihood is that you're reading a letter (something back in an era where you'd actually have to take the care to write out a letter -- maybe by hand -- and put it in an envelope and mail it off) from someone who one day probably not too long after writing the letter you're reading completely moved on from the TMNT and never looked back.

[Daytona]

For the sake of notncreating a new thread I’ll try asking this here:

Does anyone have a solid estimate on what a Mirage #21 with a 9.6 CGC grade and head sketch/signature from Eastman and Lavigne would be worth? How “popular” would that be?

I tried using eBay for reference but can’t find anything similar enough for reference and I don’t sell comics often.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I have evidence of my claim. Here’s a transcription of a letter that got published in TMNT #8 back in 1986:

“ Turtles #6 -- still my favorite title but loosing ground fast. C'mon guys, #5 and #6 are terrible (it started with #4)-- what's going on? Victims of too much
praise? Getting sloppy... yes, I think so.

The classics #1, 2, and 3 rank a 10, Raphael 9+, and Michelangelo 9+, Looking at all your issues it seems to me that #5 and #6 are terribly over-cluttered. Waiting 3-4 months between issues is a long time to wait... we the consumers expect to see the best from you guys. Or are you blinded by success?

Already with Michelangelo the art is slipping but the story makes up for it. Let's see the turtles big and bold again, not cramped into small panels.

The turtles are best in the city fighting thugs, killers, muggers in the alleys, rooftops, streets and sewers. This space stuff sucks -- Star Wars is dead! After the Cerebus Issue, please get back to the basics, strong story and plot, and please start and finish the story in one issue. TMNT seems to work better that way. I'll be glad to see this space opera end. Also it is very violent -- "taking off heads"? Kids read this, you know. “Kick ass”? "Damn" all the time. You guys are an influence. Please consider that.

Despite all of that, I'll wait and see what #9 brings before 1 drop/continue collecting.
Color would help the turtles.”

Larry Mindy
Chicago, IL

If Larry Mindy was old enough to send a handwritten letter in 1986, we can assume he was probably at least a teenager then (probably around 16-18?), so by now he'd have to be over 50.

A literal boomer. How dare he insult Peter/Kevin's work like that and call Star Wars dead by 1986 (this was only like 3 years after the last movie came out mind you). I hope he has diabetes!

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Larry Mindy

Or are you blinded by success?

Hard in the paint!

[Great Hierophant]

Letter writers have been critical of Mirage TMNT since almost the beginning. If you read some of the letters published in TMNT #15, they're practically grabbing their torches and pitchforks when E & L announced their alternating issues plan. Incidentally, the comic stopped publishing letters for a long time afterward...