Hellboy - Page 2

*cqb101* · 03-21-2004, 02:19 PM

This is my new favorite movie. I just finsihed reading the novelization and I already know I'm gonna love the movie. I'm a pretty big fan of the comics, too.

bufo · 03-21-2004, 03:07 PM

I'm really looking forward to this movie, I'm a big fan of the comics, and from what I've seen in the trailers this one is nog going to dissapoint

*Taloniss* · 03-21-2004, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cqb101

This is my new favorite movie. I just finsihed reading the novelization and I already know I'm gonna love the movie. I'm a pretty big fan of the comics, too.

I bought the novelization (Along with Bones of Giants, The Lost Army, Odd jobs, plus the Punisher novelization, the new Flash book and the new Buffy book. Lots of reading to do

) on my last run to the book store, but I'm holding off on reading it. Last time I read a novelization before the movie, my enjoyment of the movie went down because I knew everything that was going to happen. I'll read it afterwords though

*Wes* · 03-21-2004, 03:41 PM

So there probably won't be a comic adaptation, but there's a novelization? I could go for that, then. How much did it run you?

*Brodie* · 03-21-2004, 04:20 PM

6.99 at Waldens. But Novelezations always seem to dissapoint...

MW8979 · 03-21-2004, 06:44 PM

I find it to be in poor taste to basically imply that members of the NDSAP were really demons from hell or were associated with demons. It's just insulting to the reality of history and greatly diminishes the complexity and impact of what really happened in the 30's and 40's.

*Brodie* · 03-21-2004, 06:59 PM

It isn't meant to make controversy. It's just a "What if" scenario.

Splinter · 03-21-2004, 07:19 PM

Exactly, consider it an 'Alternate Reality'. It doesn't do anything to what really happened back then. It's not meant to be a 'Historical' movie. It's meant to be a fun movie. If you're gonna nitpick the fact that it's not 'real', then you should hate all movies. Since most of them arn't real.

*cqb101* · 03-21-2004, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperShredder84

I find it to be in poor taste to basically imply that members of the NDSAP were really demons from hell or were associated with demons. It's just insulting to the reality of history and greatly diminishes the complexity and impact of what really happened in the 30's and 40's.

So, you're probably not a big Indiana Jones fan either? The same things can be said about raiders of the lost arc and the last crusade. Plus, Hellboy is a comic and comics NEVER imply anything.

*Wes* · 03-21-2004, 07:32 PM

I'm not a big Indiana Jones fan, but I get SuperShredder84's point...I think I mentioned something along those lines earlier. Yea, most movies aren't real, are set in "alternate universes," what have you, but there's really no need for things to keep relying on the evil demonic Nazi party to give the villains some clout. (Btw, can someone explain to me -- via pm or here; wherever -- how the Nazi addition is more complex in the Hellboy comics? I don't mean that as a challenge; I'm seriously interested. I will say I'm skeptical, though.) One could just as easily make a fictitious order with complex goals, etc., that isn't explicitly modeled after the Nazi party.

As far as the novelization goes, for $6.99 I could just see the blasted movie, eh?

*Brodie* · 03-21-2004, 07:36 PM

It really doesn't say anything about Germans or the Nazi party. Its like a small group of 3 or 4 crazy effin' Nazis who just won't let the war go. So it isn't really against Nazi's or Germans.

Let it rest.

*Wes* · 03-21-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodie

It really doesn't say anything about Germans or the Nazi party. Its like a small group of 3 or 4 crazy effin' Nazis who just won't let the war go. So it isn't really against Nazi's or Germans.

Let it rest.

All the more reason that they didn't have to be Nazis in the first place.

By the way, statements like "let it rest" only serve to keep topics/arguments going longer, especially when there's been no definite resolution. And if it's a friendly dispute -- I certainly wasn't upset with the conversation, and I'm still interested in knowing why Nazis fit so well within the Hellboy mythos -- you'll probably end up hurting someone's feelings or making someone who wasn't already angry a little peeved, at the very least. Writing "let it rest" is almost like saying "shut up."

Just saying...

*Brodie* · 03-21-2004, 08:06 PM

I was saying shut up.

joking.

I dunno why, but I have to agree that it seems like the closer Hellboy comes, it will raise some disputes. I can see why people will get edgy about "Oh, Nazi guys got crazy and summoned a demon from Hell and it was to win the war." but it isn't really like it actually happen, or could, or anything to say about German people. But it's mostly like it is for anyone who makes a story. Take the idea behind the Spider-Man 9-11 story. Spider-Man wasn't there, nor was Wolvie or Cap America. But it was a good story. Nazis never made an open gate to Hell, or summoned a demon, nor did the demon become a good guy, etc. But it's a good story.

I'm taking back the "Let it rest" comment, this is interesting.

MW8979 · 03-21-2004, 10:09 PM

As was said before, I don't like most movies fiddling around with history for that exact reason, lack of precision and accuracy just to make a sale. It only serves to feed the general ignorance about the subject by presenting stereotypes and dichotomies. Indiana Jones is a little bit different, because although it's inaccurate most of the time, the amusing and over the top unlikely action sequences partially compensate for that. But to be perfectly honest, those sort of movies are really getting harder to watch as time goes on, especially when you know the a great deal about the reality of WWII. That's why when I go to see scifi films, I prefer things with original plots and characters detached from reality, like Star Wars or Terminator.

*That Matt Guy* · 03-22-2004, 06:28 AM

Honestly, Raiders of the Lost Ark has some basis in reality. The SS actually had archaeological detachments that spanned out across the world to search for things like the ark of the covenant (but not the way the movie depicts it). The purposes of why the Nazis were looking for things like that are somewhat unknown. Maybe as seen in the movie they wanted to turn it into a weapon of some kind. Who knows.

Raising a demon from hell to help the Nazis win the war is extremely far-fetched, but it makes just a little sense considering Hitler and Heinrich Himmler's documented obsessions with the occult. That's probably why Kroenen is wearing a SS uniform.

It's a movie too, get a clue people. It's entertainment. I could write paragraphs about whats wrong with any movie depicting WWII.

MW8979 · 03-22-2004, 06:42 AM

They were looking for those relics in order to a) add them to Hitler's proposed super world art museum in Linz and b) to help justify the existence of the reich by somehow tying in the existence of those relics with the importance of the german race. I mean, at one point, they were trying to create a myth that aryans really came from Atlantis and were the first advanced culture on Earth.

*That Matt Guy* · 03-22-2004, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperShredder84

They were looking for those relics in order to a) add them to Hitler's proposed super world art museum in Linz and b) to help justify the existence of the reich by somehow tying in the existence of those relics with the importance of the german race. I mean, at one point, they were trying to create a myth that aryans really came from Atlantis and were the first advanced culture on Earth.

I don't know about the museum, but that would add some sense to it.

But the Nazis weren't trying to create the Atlantis Myth, that theory had existed for decades. The theory itself is that the Aryan race had evacuated Atlantis and eventually ended up in Tibet from where it spread out across the world. (That's why the SS went over all over the world looking for junk that could support this theory) The idea was considered valid pre 1945 -- not just in Germany, but all across the western world too.

*Voltron* · 03-22-2004, 07:39 AM

Hitler quested for those relics for their supernatural powers. The Spear of Longinus, for example, is supposedly capable of piercing any material. Naturally, Hitler was obsessed with it and literally had the museum where it was held raided so that he could add it to his collection.
Let's not forget that Hitler was just a teeny bit crazy, and he used this items kind of like holy good luck charms.

*Brodie* · 03-22-2004, 02:36 PM

All valid information, but I think Matty-boy said it best....Let me emphasize it more...

Just a F*CKING movie.

It's not like the comic creator is saying "This actually happened" like the people who rereleased TCM, and the original TCM. Sure, it was BASED around some actual events but it never really happened, not like that. Just a movie. And no where does it state "This is true....Pay us 8 bucks...go ahead.....do it.................come on....It's like A& E and ****."

Mikey the Party Turtle · 03-23-2004, 12:28 AM

It's just a movie/comic folks.

"Oh, Nazi guys got crazy and summoned a demon from Hell and it was to win the war." - Brodie

Err..more like a Russian who was "hired" to bring about a weapon,"to end the war".

Though Rasputin didn't summon Hellboy for that. (I find it more to be a fluke that Hellboy ended up on Earth. The ceremony was for a whole 'nother reason. Too bad the Nazis didn't realize how close they came to certain doom.

)

"That's why when I go to see scifi films, I prefer things with original plots and characters detached from reality, like Star Wars or Terminator."

You obviously don't know much about Hellboy then.

There is only one plot element that deals with WWII, and that's in the first ten minutes. The rest is much, much different. (Hellboy is basically about him as he lives his life as a paranormal investigator.)

03-21-2004, 02:19 PM	#21
cqb101 Cinephile Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Salem, MA Posts: 8,489	This is my new favorite movie. I just finsihed reading the novelization and I already know I'm gonna love the movie. I'm a pretty big fan of the comics, too. __________________ Facebook

03-21-2004, 03:07 PM	#22
bufo Foot Soldier Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oss, The Netherlands Posts: 129	I'm really looking forward to this movie, I'm a big fan of the comics, and from what I've seen in the trailers this one is nog going to dissapoint __________________ "I want to be a better man, I wanna strip the flesh from the spirit, I wanna write the kind of songs that inspire people to be fearless"

03-21-2004, 03:41 PM	#24
Wes Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: A very scary place. With crayons! Posts: 1,607	So there probably won't be a comic adaptation, but there's a novelization? I could go for that, then. How much did it run you? __________________ * Scary-Crayon * Wesoteric * Chew your gum properly, ok? Aaand... Technodrome buy/sell/trade thread here!

03-21-2004, 04:20 PM	#25
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	6.99 at Waldens. But Novelezations always seem to dissapoint... __________________ Stupendous Monster

03-21-2004, 06:59 PM	#27
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	It isn't meant to make controversy. It's just a "What if" scenario. __________________ Stupendous Monster

03-21-2004, 06:44 PM	#26
MW8979 Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 431	I find it to be in poor taste to basically imply that members of the NDSAP were really demons from hell or were associated with demons. It's just insulting to the reality of history and greatly diminishes the complexity and impact of what really happened in the 30's and 40's.

03-21-2004, 07:19 PM	#28
Splinter Radical Rat Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Splinter's Dojo Posts: 1,531	Exactly, consider it an 'Alternate Reality'. It doesn't do anything to what really happened back then. It's not meant to be a 'Historical' movie. It's meant to be a fun movie. If you're gonna nitpick the fact that it's not 'real', then you should hate all movies. Since most of them arn't real. __________________ R.I.P. Master Splinter - Mirage Comics - May 1984 / June 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - New Episode Guide

03-21-2004, 07:32 PM	#30
Wes Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: A very scary place. With crayons! Posts: 1,607	I'm not a big Indiana Jones fan, but I get SuperShredder84's point...I think I mentioned something along those lines earlier. Yea, most movies aren't real, are set in "alternate universes," what have you, but there's really no need for things to keep relying on the evil demonic Nazi party to give the villains some clout. (Btw, can someone explain to me -- via pm or here; wherever -- how the Nazi addition is more complex in the Hellboy comics? I don't mean that as a challenge; I'm seriously interested. I will say I'm skeptical, though.) One could just as easily make a fictitious order with complex goals, etc., that isn't explicitly modeled after the Nazi party. As far as the novelization goes, for $6.99 I could just see the blasted movie, eh? __________________ * Scary-Crayon * Wesoteric * Chew your gum properly, ok? Aaand... Technodrome buy/sell/trade thread here!

03-21-2004, 07:36 PM	#31
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	It really doesn't say anything about Germans or the Nazi party. Its like a small group of 3 or 4 crazy effin' Nazis who just won't let the war go. So it isn't really against Nazi's or Germans. Let it rest. __________________ Stupendous Monster

03-21-2004, 08:06 PM	#33
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	I was saying shut up. joking. I dunno why, but I have to agree that it seems like the closer Hellboy comes, it will raise some disputes. I can see why people will get edgy about "Oh, Nazi guys got crazy and summoned a demon from Hell and it was to win the war." but it isn't really like it actually happen, or could, or anything to say about German people. But it's mostly like it is for anyone who makes a story. Take the idea behind the Spider-Man 9-11 story. Spider-Man wasn't there, nor was Wolvie or Cap America. But it was a good story. Nazis never made an open gate to Hell, or summoned a demon, nor did the demon become a good guy, etc. But it's a good story. I'm taking back the "Let it rest" comment, this is interesting. __________________ Stupendous Monster

03-21-2004, 10:09 PM	#34
MW8979 Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 431	As was said before, I don't like most movies fiddling around with history for that exact reason, lack of precision and accuracy just to make a sale. It only serves to feed the general ignorance about the subject by presenting stereotypes and dichotomies. Indiana Jones is a little bit different, because although it's inaccurate most of the time, the amusing and over the top unlikely action sequences partially compensate for that. But to be perfectly honest, those sort of movies are really getting harder to watch as time goes on, especially when you know the a great deal about the reality of WWII. That's why when I go to see scifi films, I prefer things with original plots and characters detached from reality, like Star Wars or Terminator.

03-22-2004, 06:28 AM	#35
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	Honestly, Raiders of the Lost Ark has some basis in reality. The SS actually had archaeological detachments that spanned out across the world to search for things like the ark of the covenant (but not the way the movie depicts it). The purposes of why the Nazis were looking for things like that are somewhat unknown. Maybe as seen in the movie they wanted to turn it into a weapon of some kind. Who knows. Raising a demon from hell to help the Nazis win the war is extremely far-fetched, but it makes just a little sense considering Hitler and Heinrich Himmler's documented obsessions with the occult. That's probably why Kroenen is wearing a SS uniform. It's a movie too, get a clue people. It's entertainment. I could write paragraphs about whats wrong with any movie depicting WWII.

03-22-2004, 06:42 AM	#36
MW8979 Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 431	They were looking for those relics in order to a) add them to Hitler's proposed super world art museum in Linz and b) to help justify the existence of the reich by somehow tying in the existence of those relics with the importance of the german race. I mean, at one point, they were trying to create a myth that aryans really came from Atlantis and were the first advanced culture on Earth.

03-22-2004, 07:39 AM	#38
Voltron Handsomest Boy in School Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Realm of SJW Posts: 4,642	Hitler quested for those relics for their supernatural powers. The Spear of Longinus, for example, is supposedly capable of piercing any material. Naturally, Hitler was obsessed with it and literally had the museum where it was held raided so that he could add it to his collection. Let's not forget that Hitler was just a teeny bit crazy, and he used this items kind of like holy good luck charms. __________________ I AM FOR ACTUAL! . . . and the White Savior. . . and the Right Hand of God. . .

03-22-2004, 02:36 PM	#39
Brodie Certified Teacher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bizarro Metropolis Posts: 6,495	All valid information, but I think Matty-boy said it best....Let me emphasize it more... Just a FCKING movie. It's not like the comic creator is saying "This actually happened" like the people who rereleased TCM, and the original TCM. Sure, it was BASED around some actual events but it never really happened, not like that. Just a movie. And no where does it state "This is true....Pay us 8 bucks...go ahead.....do it.................come on....It's like A& E and ***." __________________ Stupendous Monster

03-23-2004, 12:28 AM	#40
Mikey the Party Turtle Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In the US of A. Yay. Posts: 442	It's just a movie/comic folks. "Oh, Nazi guys got crazy and summoned a demon from Hell and it was to win the war." - Brodie Err..more like a Russian who was "hired" to bring about a weapon,"to end the war". Though Rasputin didn't summon Hellboy for that. (I find it more to be a fluke that Hellboy ended up on Earth. The ceremony was for a whole 'nother reason. Too bad the Nazis didn't realize how close they came to certain doom. ) "That's why when I go to see scifi films, I prefer things with original plots and characters detached from reality, like Star Wars or Terminator." You obviously don't know much about Hellboy then. There is only one plot element that deals with WWII, and that's in the first ten minutes. The rest is much, much different. (Hellboy is basically about him as he lives his life as a paranormal investigator.)