Thoughts on the new movie! - Page 29

Haddyskelly · 04-24-2007, 06:05 PM

yea that would be awesome

*Revan* · 04-24-2007, 06:12 PM

haddy, you would probably find the thoughts on the new movie thread interesting. also the violence in the pg thread might catch your fancy. You should do some thread searches to find topics that interest you and read what other fellow dromers had to see on the subject.

**Jo Dawn** · 04-24-2007, 08:35 PM

I believe this belongs in the movie discussion thread...

04-27-2007, 06:54 AM

I injoyed the moveie very much but i agree with the rest of you the movie could have added a little more to it to make it more interesting. But again there are allot of little kids that Like TMNT now and it iad to be safe for them to watch...Just wished it wasent :sighs: I could hve done with out the little kids talking though the move could have enjoyed it more :sighs:

Splinter's Iroonna · 05-05-2007, 01:07 AM

Having finally downloaded the "soundtrack"-- and being in a position to listen to the cut called "I Love Being A Turtle", which basically is a montage of MANY bits throughout the movie (Splinter looking at the trophies, the Generals marching, the scene where the "monsters" cages are being affected by the vortex, and so on)-- I am MORE THAN EVER IN love with this move! I need to take the time and put my feelings into a meaningful and understandable post, rather than something that sound like a purely emotional lovefest. I am considerably older than the rest of you; I "remember" the comic when it was first around; I can only remember the original toon's song, NO episodes-- I willingly went to the first movie (several times, btw)-- and I have a HUGE love for the "current" series BC (Before Cody)-- but this movie has been a HUGE influence on me! I've not wanted to see something so many times since I was in my 20s.

I hate that it will all pass into the "remember when" category, especially as the "big" movies are now coming out (btw, I was NEVER a Spidey fan-- but you KNOW that that is all we're gonna hear until the Fantastic Four, and Harry Potter, and Transformers come out). But I have much happiness from this movie. I have rediscovered through the current series (well, NOT Fast Forward) my love of comics, of writing--

Of FUN!!

*Warhorse* · 05-05-2007, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinter's Iroonna

Having finally downloaded the "soundtrack"-- and being in a position to listen to the cut called "I Love Being A Turtle", which basically is a montage of MANY bits throughout the movie (Splinter looking at the trophies, the Generals marching, the scene where the "monsters" cages are being affected by the vortex, and so on)-- I am MORE THAN EVER IN love with this move! I need to take the time and put my feelings into a meaningful and understandable post, rather than something that sound like a purely emotional lovefest. I am considerably older than the rest of you; I "remember" the comic when it was first around; I can only remember the original toon's song, NO episodes-- I willingly went to the first movie (several times, btw)-- and I have a HUGE love for the "current" series BC (Before Cody)-- but this movie has been a HUGE influence on me! I've not wanted to see something so many times since I was in my 20s.

I hate that it will all pass into the "remember when" category, especially as the "big" movies are now coming out (btw, I was NEVER a Spidey fan-- but you KNOW that that is all we're gonna hear until the Fantastic Four, and Harry Potter, and Transformers come out). But I have much happiness from this movie. I have rediscovered through the current series (well, NOT Fast Forward) my love of comics, of writing--

Of FUN!!

Well. For the most part. It seems our Turtles is getting more praise from it's fans than Spider-Man 3 is. So our boys did their part.

I'm also curious to the percentage Spiderman 3 will rake in as profit compared to the Turtles. I dont mean the exact numbers, but TMNT cost 35 million to make, and brought back 80+ million in BO.

Spiderman cost 250 million to make. It would have to make 500 million to break even, and this time, it has stiff competition from POTC 3, Harry Potter, Shrek 3, and Transformers. Not to mention there might be another sleeper hit like 300 on the horizon.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-05-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I'm also curious to the percentage Spiderman 3 will rake in as profit compared to the Turtles. I dont mean the exact numbers, but TMNT cost 35 million to make, and brought back 80+ million in BO.

35 million dollar production budget. Factor everything that has gone into marketing, distribution, and the fact that neither WB or Imagi own the rights to TMNT (Laird is pocketing a good %)... 80 million is a far cry from a success.

*Rooish* · 05-05-2007, 11:13 AM

The more I think about this movie, the more frustrated I am. And here is why: I did not feel I was watching a Ninja Turtles movie. I feel like anyone could have been thrown in to deal with that monster plot--after all, it took no special TMNT skills to fight the monsters; all they had to do was look at a star chart and then invade a courtyard. Anyone with similar fighting skills could have done that. We could have seen human ninjas do that. Also April and especially Casey overshadowed Splinter, Mike and Don, leaving a movie where the main focus of the Turtles--the mutant freaks trying to find their place in the world--is completely gone.

There were so many distractions that we barely saw the Turtles in their element. We still have yet to see Don and Mike do any substantial fighting, and what else is a Ninja Turtles movie for? Leo and Raph were portrayed very well, true. The VAs were great. The animation was great. But that doesn't make a good movie when the movie has no reason to exist.

When I come out of a movie, I often think, "What was the point?" And I did not see a point to this movie. It had no moral, except that family was important, and they showed this by having two brothers beat the crap out of each other. It had a dark "comic book" feel, but it was lacking in the Ninja Turtle feel. We start out with this laughable melodramatic introduction about three thousand years ago, which deals with the fact that there will be no Shredder very lamely, and then we end up in a jungle in "Central America" (could they not have picked a country in Central America? It's not hard. Here, I will. Belize). This does not have a TMNT feel. It has a disjointed ancient myth feel.

There were horrendous plot holes that have been mentioned. Also, if the movie was trying to please TMNT fans, it could have done fine without the monsters/generals/Winters. Or, if it must have had the monsters/generals/Winters, it could have done fine without Karai and the Foot, which had no point except to confuse the public and suggest that a (hopefully) better sequel was coming. If the movie was trying to please the public, it needed to give a reason to draw people in. Having 239124776424 plot lines does not do that. Having a script that oozes cliches and jokes that fall flat does not do that. Giving no indication that the Turtles are in some way special does not do that. Some parts of the script were good, but other parts were among the worst lines I have heard in movies. Especially the "When this is over, I'm calling the architect" line. Ugh, just ugh! Why the hell would anyone say that? Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, the building fell. Let's call the architect!

I do have some affection for the film and plan to buy the DVD. The (very few) interactions between the Turtles, and the fight scenes, are great. When I left the theatre after my first viewing, I was traumatisingly disappointed, considering it one of the worst movies I've seen in a long time despite the fact that I should have loved seeing characters I love so much. I sort of convinced myself it was better, but now I'm going back to my initial instincts. That movie could have been much, much better and I consider it an enormous loss.

jenna · 05-05-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooish

The more I think about this movie, the more frustrated I am. And here is why: I did not feel I was watching a Ninja Turtles movie. I feel like anyone could have been thrown in to deal with that monster plot--after all, it took no special TMNT skills to fight the monsters; all they had to do was look at a star chart and then invade a courtyard. Anyone with similar fighting skills could have done that. We could have seen human ninjas do that. Also April and especially Casey overshadowed Splinter, Mike and Don, leaving a movie where the main focus of the Turtles--the mutant freaks trying to find their place in the world--is completely gone.

There were so many distractions that we barely saw the Turtles in their element. We still have yet to see Don and Mike do any substantial fighting, and what else is a Ninja Turtles movie for? Leo and Raph were portrayed very well, true. The VAs were great. The animation was great. But that doesn't make a good movie when the movie has no reason to exist.

When I come out of a movie, I often think, "What was the point?" And I did not see a point to this movie. It had no moral, except that family was important, and they showed this by having two brothers beat the crap out of each other. It had a dark "comic book" feel, but it was lacking in the Ninja Turtle feel. We start out with this laughable melodramatic introduction about three thousand years ago, which deals with the fact that there will be no Shredder very lamely, and then we end up in a jungle in "Central America" (could they not have picked a country in Central America? It's not hard. Here, I will. Belize). This does not have a TMNT feel. It has a disjointed ancient myth feel.

There were horrendous plot holes that have been mentioned. Also, if the movie was trying to please TMNT fans, it could have done fine without the monsters/generals/Winters. Or, if it must have had the monsters/generals/Winters, it could have done fine without Karai and the Foot, which had no point except to confuse the public and suggest that a (hopefully) better sequel was coming. If the movie was trying to please the public, it needed to give a reason to draw people in. Having 239124776424 plot lines does not do that. Having a script that oozes cliches and jokes that fall flat does not do that. Giving no indication that the Turtles are in some way special does not do that. Some parts of the script were good, but other parts were among the worst lines I have heard in movies. Especially the "When this is over, I'm calling the architect" line. Ugh, just ugh! Why the hell would anyone say that? Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, the building fell. Let's call the architect!

I do have some affection for the film and plan to buy the DVD. The (very few) interactions between the Turtles, and the fight scenes, are great. When I left the theatre after my first viewing, I was traumatisingly disappointed, considering it one of the worst movies I've seen in a long time despite the fact that I should have loved seeing characters I love so much. I sort of convinced myself it was better, but now I'm going back to my initial instincts. That movie could have been much, much better and I consider it an enormous loss.

It's a shame they felt compelled to include the monster / generals / winters story. The film would have really benefitted from going deeper into the family plot and exercised the ninja element through interaction with the foot, or even a less ridiculous concept for a villain. I think the monster / winters story was a tool to make the film more accessible to the kids and to non-TMNT fans which i think is a real shame that Warner felt that that was the only way to secure a profit.

As for me, I love the film but spend my time pretending that the monster / winters plot line doesn't exist. I love it for the Raph / Leo plot line and for the VA work and animation. I would be overjoyed to be able to love it for everything. I have been telling my friends how good it is based on these merits (and in most cases I have "forgotten" to mention the more silly elements to the plot - which is a real shame).

I think you're right, Rooish (as much as I wish it weren't so) the film is a loss in a way. It was a wonderful opportunity to really expand on the TMNT's already solid base and allow it to grow.

*Rooish* · 05-05-2007, 11:54 AM

The weird thing is, I don't think adding the monsters would really draw in children or the public ... they just make the film more complicated and cheesy. So I don't think it worked the way they had intended, although I agree, jenna, that that's why they put in the monsters.

Unless Kevin Munroe just really loves monsters.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-05-2007, 11:55 AM

The answer is toys. Merch. Big picture.

jenna · 05-05-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooish

The weird thing is, I don't think adding the monsters would really draw in children or the public ... they just make the film more complicated and cheesy. So I don't think it worked the way they had intended, although I agree, jenna, that that's why they put in the monsters.

Unless Kevin Munroe just really loves monsters.

Yup, absolutely. It didn't work. Children aren't stupid like a lot of film makers seem to think they are. It's not really appropriate for us to find out the answers to apparent plot-holes (like why the monsters were all in NYC) through reading the book and comics - that's just bad narrative. The film should be able to stand on its own, and it really doesn't. We know the answers because we've done the reading, but with these glaringly obvious ommissions, to someone who hasn't read the backing literature, it just looks like sloppy film making.

It would be a different story, I think, if the film had been allowed to live a natural run-time, but the 87 minutes was quite simply too short. They would have used an extra 20-30mins to tie up plot holes and add some more depth to the monster narrative (thus making it less cheesey and more realistic (if such a term can be applied)) and to flesh out Mike and Don a bit, and for there to be some more emphasis on the ninja element. It just felt like the film came to an ubrupt end, and there were still loose ends to tie. The monster / winters narrative could have worked.

But I'm just rambling now...

*Andrew NDB* · 05-05-2007, 03:01 PM

Here's my review of the movie I've posted elsewhere. Disclaimer : These thoughts are my own, and it's not my intent to attack Munroe or anyone involved with this movie. I also don't mean to attack any fans that genuinely enjoy the movie, or fans that are just happy to have a movie -- we're all TMNT fans and all have our own views and histories with the franchise.

---

Saw it with Lisardo back on opening day.

Overall, hey, good times. Definitely "lite" (diet?) TMNT... sadly it's no grittier than the original movie, and, in fact, quite a bit less gritty than that, in fact. Absolutely no trace of blood or bruises (OK, we see a couple bandages at one point), and Mikey doesn't even get to use his nunchuks... or, at least, we don't get to SEE him using them in ANY capacity for spineless reasons, which is beyond stupid. Why not make a Spider-Man movie where Spidey can't shoot webs? A Wolverine film where he has no claws, maybe? I got it, a Punisher movie with no guns!

What worked :

Anything and everything to do with family, and particularly the aspect that is hammered home of brotherhood and forgiveness, unity. This is the glue that binds things together, and when we see it, it does, and well. Nice visuals, the CGI is top notch and I 5hit you not -- you can see the very individual pigments of the TMNT's skin at a close glance, and it's quite incredible. Action is fast-paced, and choreographed damned well (though, with CGI, what is choreography, really?).

What didn't :

Pretty much everything else. If you know me well, you know what this film probably means to me. That said, this movie makes no bones that it is intended pretty much for pre-teens (and it is, after all, rated PG... not even a dignified PG-13, which would suggest a movie called "Teenage" Mutant Ninja Turtles is actually to be viewed by teenagers)... which, in itself, is more than a little disturbingly ironic.

The original TMNT is probably the film I've seen that tries to push the PG envelope to the maximum. I was really hoping to see this new CGI film try and dance that same line as close as it possibly could (nevermind the idiocy of a PG rating for a superhero film with teenaged ninjas anyway), unfortunately it seems to have gleefully embraced the PG rating even from its inception.

I remember TMNT in 1990... there wasn't a great deal of blood or what-have-you, but there was an everpresent realism to the action on the stage. We spend a bit of time and get to know the very human members of the Foot Clan, the kids that run with them. The Turtles get cut; they bleed. They cut the Shredder; he bleeds. They use their weapons, we see it. Hell, Raphael gets rather violently knocked into a rather bloody/bruised coma for a good part of the film. In this film, some 17 years after the original film (!!!) there is no trace of blood or bruises to speak of, and shame on the filmmakers for not having the balls to show Michelangelo (and yes, Laird does exert his influence, I'd assume, to "correct" the spelling of his name in a subtitle shown in the film upon his reintroduction). Mikey wields his nunchuks, yet we never see him use them... in any kind of TMNT rulebook, this is just criminal. In a feature film intended to launch a new film franchise, simply shameful.

I won't say the plot is hackneyed, but I'll just say it's not what it "should" be, which might not be fair... no review should be about what a film "could" be, but rather what it is. What it is at its core is the TMNT against some enchanted stone statues led by a dude that wants to do a Pokemon, "Gotta Catch'em All!" with a series of weird and wacky monsters to avert some sort of global dominion.

In a follow up, a serial, or a cartoon, I'd have no problem with any of this. And to the writers' credit (and I believe Munroe himself is more or less the sole writer, who's only really ever been involved with video games prior to this movie), this is pretty much an entirely original tale of the TMNT -- taken as a whole, we've never seen any story like this in TMNT in any incarnation, any universe.

As the fourth feature film (and it's obviously presented as, at the very least, a loose continuation of the first three films... note the "Death" of Shredder mentioned, the advanced relationship of Casey and April, the presence of the TGRI canister from TMNT II, the presence of the exact likeness of Shredder's mask from TMNT II, and the presence of the Sceptre from TMNT III at the end), or if you prefer, the first in what is obviously intended to be a theatrical rebirth of the franchise... it comes up short.

What we needed was a still relatively kid-accessible TMNT film, yet still grassroots... but at the same time still possessing some modicum of BALLS. No monsters and magic and the like... the TMNT need to be the weirdest aspect of the story -- their enemies grounded in our own reality. Why not just adapt the old "City at War" story arc from the Mirage comics to suit the aftermath of the first three films, with the fallout of the (final) death of Shredder in TMNT II? But I digress...

The greatest TMNT story arcs in the comics -- or, I'd even go so far as to say the larger TMNT universe at large, the Fred Wolf cartoon or 4Kids series, Archies -- are ones that don't feature oddities like monsters, magic, and the like (to be fair, there are some, even some classics). Nevertheless, as a starting point for a renewed movie franchise, this leaves something to be desired.

And April O'Neil... I have no problem with her characterization here, or her voiceover by Buffy. Perfectly sound voice casting, and I won't even speak ill of the cartoony proportions applied to not only her but pretty much all of the human characters in the film (the Turtles, however, are damned spot-on!). I will speak ill, however, of the gigantic, dramatic leap of faith that is asked of us to believe that April, over the course of just a casual interest in martial arts and swordplay, is able to completely dismantle and subdue Karai, the leader of the entire Foot Clan -- Shredder's superior, were he still alive, no less.

The end is laughable... no, literally. In what should have been a fairly poignant, sad moment in the end, instead is robbed of this and becomes a laugh-out-loud fest with Michelangelo turning things into a chuckle-fest for the benefit of the apparently coveted pre-teen audience.

In summation, I'll just say what I've said before. As the fans that have supported and followed the TMNT over the years (or hell, even ones that have become disillusioned with the TMNT, "outgrown" them, and are willing to give it another go) get older and older, the TMNT property at large continues to aim younger and younger, even younger than previous incarnations did.

I only speak for myself, but this is a disturbing, self-destructive cycle of events that I can only imagine will repeat itself yet again in another 10 years or so. TMNT 1 (rated PG) pushed it about as far as it could go -- we saw blood, mild language, and actual consequences to the fighting... seventeen years later, we get a movie that backpeddles and gives us NONE of the above (in lieu of the above, we get some Pokemon monster tom-foolery with nonsensical alignment-of-stars-opens-secret-Stargate -- nonsense I'd expect to see in a Playstation 1 game, not a TMNT feature film).

Sorry, folks. Didn't like it.

The most successful comic book films to date are ones that have stuck closest to the source material. Comics like Fantastic Four and Spider-Man are WAY kiddier than the Mirage TMNT, in which the Turtles would drink, swear, and chop off heads... yet while Fantastic Four and Spider-Man get relatively faithful adaptions of their comics with PG-13 ratings... TMNT gets kiddy nonsense and a PG rating? I'll never understand it.

No chance in hell of a sequel, theatrically. A movie needs to break at least 80 million domestically for a sequel to even be a consideration, as sequels are expected to earn only half of what an original earns by financiers. And even today, to make a film that earns 100 million isn't even considered a "hit" anymore.

May get Munroe's "TMNT 2: The Nonsense Return of Shredder"... but it'll be going straight to DVD folks, and that's if we're lucky. With Munroe's initial ideas for a sequel (straight from the horse's mouth, can point you to a recent interview) being the TMNT time-traveling to ancient Mayan times to fight off a space alien invasion... I'm not even sure I'd say we'd be lucky to see such a sequel.

*Rooish* · 05-05-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna

It's not really appropriate for us to find out the answers to apparent plot-holes (like why the monsters were all in NYC) through reading the book and comics - that's just bad narrative. The film should be able to stand on its own, and it really doesn't. We know the answers because we've done the reading, but with these glaringly obvious ommissions, to someone who hasn't read the backing literature, it just looks like sloppy film making.

So true. I have a feeling that anyone who saw that movie and didn't know much about the Turtles would walk out thinking, "WTF just happened? What was the point of that weird little movie?"

I'm also disappointed about the general lightness of the movie compared to the first TMNT film, Andrew NDB. Yes, the Leo/Raph fight was intense, but that was the only real dark part. They definitely had way more guts in 1990, releasing that movie when 9/10ths of TMNT fans had never read the dark comics, but had watched the cartoon.

I think that Kevin Munroe seems like a very nice guy, and I don't mean to attack him personally. Unfortunately, since he wrote such a disappointing plot and script, I don't trust him for a sequel. I suppose it's impossible to please everybody when TMNT has such a diverse fanbase, but everybody could have been pleased better through a more carefully constructed movie. You can't just slap pretty art and some popular characters on something and then "fill in the gaps" with the storyline and script. Those are the two most important things!

Also I wish Casey Jones was not so emasculated in this movie and the 2k3 toon.

I loved the soundtrack, though.

*Mecha Cow* · 05-05-2007, 04:13 PM

Didn't realise this thread was still going.

Saw the movie a while back. First in an abandoned theatre in Dutch. Was so disgusted afterwards that I willed the English version to appear on my computer.

I liked it. It was a kid's movie for sure, and I think you'd definitely have to be at least something of a TMNT fan to enjoy it to its fullest. The whole monsters/stars alligning thing kind of turned me off, but again, a kid's movie. The plot didn't make much sense to begin with anyway, the character interactions were the main event here. Fortunately those were handled really well.

It could have been better, but for what it was I was satisfied. I'm looking forward to a sequel, hopefully with less monsters and whatnot. And I know the character is overplayed...but dare I hope for Shredder too?

*E*

Quote:

No chance in hell of a sequel, theatrically.

You sure? Wasn't one confirmed a while back?

*Rooish* · 05-05-2007, 04:16 PM

You know, that movie made me wish for Shredder. And I was sick of Shredder before the new toon even started.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-05-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooish

You know, that movie made me wish for Shredder. And I was sick of Shredder before the new toon even started.

Not me. If the TMNT trilogy did anything to death, it was Shredder and camp. The new movie brings in the camp, and then goes on to make it clear Munroe wants to bring back Shredder in the next one.

The part in the movie where they really beat us over the head with it, where Karai is telling the Turtles, "You will see a familiar face from your past!" and the Turtles are like, "No... it can't be... him?" is just eye-rolling. It's literally like Munroe and the financiers are leaning into the theatre going, "You see, kids? If you see this movie enough, make us enough money to make another one, you'll see THE SHREDDER in the sequel! We promise! No, really!"

Ugh, keep him out of it. If TMNT absolutely needs Shredder in every outing to survive, it doesn't deserve to continue. And I'm the biggest Shredder/Oroku Saki fan you'll find (not sure about relegating him to Shredder Shark in the current volume of Tales, though).

*Rooish* · 05-05-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Not me. If the TMNT trilogy did anything to death, it was Shredder and camp. The new movie brings in the camp, and then goes on to make it clear Munroe wants to bring back Shredder in the next one.

The part in the movie where they really beat us over the head with it, where Karai is telling the Turtles, "You will see a familiar face from your past!" and the Turtles are like, "No... it can't be... him?" is just eye-rolling. It's literally like Munroe and the financiers are leaning into the theatre going, "You see, kids? If you see this movie enough, make us enough money to make another one, you'll see THE SHREDDER in the sequel! We promise! No, really!"

Ugh, keep him out of it. If TMNT absolutely needs Shredder in every outing to survive, it doesn't deserve to continue. And I'm the biggest Shredder/Oroku Saki fan you'll find (not sure about relegating him to Shredder Shark in the current volume of Tales, though).

Hear, hear. I just meant that the bad guys in the new movie were so bad that I wished for Shredder ... and that is saying a lot, since he is so overdone.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-05-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

You sure? Wasn't one confirmed a while back?

Nope. Chances for one are even said to be "slim," and that's coming from Mirage as recently as this week.

*Revan* · 05-05-2007, 04:38 PM

First of all, Andrew, let me just say, nice review.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

In this film, some 17 years after the original film (!!!) there is no trace of blood or bruises to speak of, and shame on the filmmakers for not having the balls to show Michelangelo (and yes, Laird does exert his influence, I'd assume, to "correct" the spelling of his name in a subtitle shown in the film upon his reintroduction). Mikey wields his nunchuks, yet we never see him use them... in any kind of TMNT rulebook, this is just criminal. In a feature film intended to launch a new film franchise, simply shameful.

Mike's name spelling was switched from Michaelangelo to Michelangelo for 2k3. They decided since they were starting a new series to "get it right."

As for the chucks, I never understood the big deal. Yes they are dangerous, but they are weapons . Is that not the point of having weapons. And plus, they are no more dangerous than katana. Even if it is a PG movie, I have seen guns in PG movies before and you can't tell me nunchaku are more dangerous than guns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What we needed was a still relatively kid-accessible TMNT film, yet still grassroots... but at the same time still possessing some modicum of BALLS. No monsters and magic and the like... the TMNT need to be the weirdest aspect of the story -- their enemies grounded in our own reality. Why not just adapt the old "City at War" story arc from the Mirage comics to suit the aftermath of the first three films, with the fallout of the (final) death of Shredder in TMNT II? But I digress...

I agree. CaW would have been much more, and I hate to use this word, realistic. Mutant talking turtles employing martial arts are by no means realistic but you get the picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Sorry, folks. Didn't like it.

The most successful comic book films to date are ones that have stuck closest to the source material. Comics like Fantastic Four and Spider-Man are WAY kiddier than the Mirage TMNT, in which the Turtles would drink, swear, and chop off heads... yet while Fantastic Four and Spider-Man get relatively faithful adaptions of their comics with PG-13 ratings... TMNT gets kiddy nonsense and a PG rating? I'll never understand it.

I'm not trying to change your mind or even influence it for that matter but here are my 2 cents.
Over the years, TMNT have slowly been grouped into the comedy genre rather than where it was initially intended to be... action/badassness.

Other comic book movie adaptations have got away with pg-13 rating because they were not changed to a comedic series. The 87 series, though one of my favorites of all time, kiddyfied the turtles and is, IMO, a big reason why people refer to the turtles as "cute."

Those other comic book movies you refered to that secured pg-13 ratings were always intended to be that dark. TMNT gained popularity with their 87 series, comedy angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No chance in hell of a sequel, theatrically. A movie needs to break at least 80 million domestically for a sequel to even be a consideration, as sequels are expected to earn only half of what an original earns by financiers. And even today, to make a film that earns 100 million isn't even considered a "hit" anymore.

I hope you are wrong on this one. I'll admit that I know little of sequel requirements but I have seen many "bad" movies yeild sequels so you never know. (Not saying TMNT was bad by any means. I thought the movie was good)

I thought they did a good job with TMNT. I would have rather watched a CaW adaptation but I have zero say in those matters. They had to appeal to the largest possible audience since they pushed for a pg rating and with that, comes the kiddyness. Kids like monsters and magic and of course mutant turtles. Sure most of the tmnt fan base is teenagers and above but the filmmakers had to make a choice (which was probably a tough thing to do)

All things considered, decent picture. And I respect your opinin too. I even agree with most of the things you said I just liked the movie and you didn't seem to. No big deal

View Poll Results: Did you enjoy TMNT?
A+ this was an awesome movie	87	41.63%
A It was really good	64	30.62%
B pretty good movie	43	20.57%
C eh it is ok but I like the older ones better	8	3.83%
D Disapointing I didn't really think it was all good	3	1.44%
E Terrible. Disgusting. worst movie of 2007	3	1.44%
I am not going to see this movie. Don't like CGI or ninja turtles.	1	0.48%
Voters: 209. You may not vote on this poll

04-24-2007, 06:05 PM	#561
Haddyskelly Random Punk Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: with the turtles Posts: 15	yea that would be awesome __________________ G'day dudes!!! [http://www.movie-list.com/t/tmnt.jpg] Everyone wants to be in heaven but nobody wants to die.

04-24-2007, 06:12 PM	#562
Revan Han Shot First Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Paper Street Soap Company Posts: 3,687	haddy, you would probably find the thoughts on the new movie thread interesting. also the violence in the pg thread might catch your fancy. You should do some thread searches to find topics that interest you and read what other fellow dromers had to see on the subject. __________________

04-24-2007, 08:35 PM	#563
Jo Dawn Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Authority On All Things Don Posts: 5,190	I believe this belongs in the movie discussion thread... __________________

04-27-2007, 06:54 AM	#564
C.R.Ebi Guest Posts: n/a	Whats on my mind I injoyed the moveie very much but i agree with the rest of you the movie could have added a little more to it to make it more interesting. But again there are allot of little kids that Like TMNT now and it iad to be safe for them to watch...Just wished it wasent :sighs: I could hve done with out the little kids talking though the move could have enjoyed it more :sighs:

05-05-2007, 01:07 AM	#565
Splinter's Iroonna Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 401	Having finally downloaded the "soundtrack"-- and being in a position to listen to the cut called "I Love Being A Turtle", which basically is a montage of MANY bits throughout the movie (Splinter looking at the trophies, the Generals marching, the scene where the "monsters" cages are being affected by the vortex, and so on)-- I am MORE THAN EVER IN love with this move! I need to take the time and put my feelings into a meaningful and understandable post, rather than something that sound like a purely emotional lovefest. I am considerably older than the rest of you; I "remember" the comic when it was first around; I can only remember the original toon's song, NO episodes-- I willingly went to the first movie (several times, btw)-- and I have a HUGE love for the "current" series BC (Before Cody)-- but this movie has been a HUGE influence on me! I've not wanted to see something so many times since I was in my 20s. I hate that it will all pass into the "remember when" category, especially as the "big" movies are now coming out (btw, I was NEVER a Spidey fan-- but you KNOW that that is all we're gonna hear until the Fantastic Four, and Harry Potter, and Transformers come out). But I have much happiness from this movie. I have rediscovered through the current series (well, NOT Fast Forward) my love of comics, of writing-- Of FUN!! __________________ Original banner by Imagi, comments/adaptations by Ninjatron-- check out his blog! http://astroboyworld.blogspot.com/

05-05-2007, 11:13 AM	#568
Rooish Devil's Advocate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 2,130	The more I think about this movie, the more frustrated I am. And here is why: I did not feel I was watching a Ninja Turtles movie. I feel like anyone could have been thrown in to deal with that monster plot--after all, it took no special TMNT skills to fight the monsters; all they had to do was look at a star chart and then invade a courtyard. Anyone with similar fighting skills could have done that. We could have seen human ninjas do that. Also April and especially Casey overshadowed Splinter, Mike and Don, leaving a movie where the main focus of the Turtles--the mutant freaks trying to find their place in the world--is completely gone. There were so many distractions that we barely saw the Turtles in their element. We still have yet to see Don and Mike do any substantial fighting, and what else is a Ninja Turtles movie for? Leo and Raph were portrayed very well, true. The VAs were great. The animation was great. But that doesn't make a good movie when the movie has no reason to exist. When I come out of a movie, I often think, "What was the point?" And I did not see a point to this movie. It had no moral, except that family was important, and they showed this by having two brothers beat the crap out of each other. It had a dark "comic book" feel, but it was lacking in the Ninja Turtle feel. We start out with this laughable melodramatic introduction about three thousand years ago, which deals with the fact that there will be no Shredder very lamely, and then we end up in a jungle in "Central America" (could they not have picked a country in Central America? It's not hard. Here, I will. Belize). This does not have a TMNT feel. It has a disjointed ancient myth feel. There were horrendous plot holes that have been mentioned. Also, if the movie was trying to please TMNT fans, it could have done fine without the monsters/generals/Winters. Or, if it must have had the monsters/generals/Winters, it could have done fine without Karai and the Foot, which had no point except to confuse the public and suggest that a (hopefully) better sequel was coming. If the movie was trying to please the public, it needed to give a reason to draw people in. Having 239124776424 plot lines does not do that. Having a script that oozes cliches and jokes that fall flat does not do that. Giving no indication that the Turtles are in some way special does not do that. Some parts of the script were good, but other parts were among the worst lines I have heard in movies. Especially the "When this is over, I'm calling the architect" line. Ugh, just ugh! Why the hell would anyone say that? Is that supposed to be clever? Oh, the building fell. Let's call the architect! I do have some affection for the film and plan to buy the DVD. The (very few) interactions between the Turtles, and the fight scenes, are great. When I left the theatre after my first viewing, I was traumatisingly disappointed, considering it one of the worst movies I've seen in a long time despite the fact that I should have loved seeing characters I love so much. I sort of convinced myself it was better, but now I'm going back to my initial instincts. That movie could have been much, much better and I consider it an enormous loss. __________________ Thanks evan2000 for the sig!

05-05-2007, 11:54 AM	#570
Rooish Devil's Advocate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 2,130	The weird thing is, I don't think adding the monsters would really draw in children or the public ... they just make the film more complicated and cheesy. So I don't think it worked the way they had intended, although I agree, jenna, that that's why they put in the monsters. Unless Kevin Munroe just really loves monsters. __________________ Thanks evan2000 for the sig!

05-05-2007, 11:55 AM	#571
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,387	The answer is toys. Merch. Big picture. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

05-05-2007, 03:01 PM	#573
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,387	Here's my review of the movie I've posted elsewhere. Disclaimer : These thoughts are my own, and it's not my intent to attack Munroe or anyone involved with this movie. I also don't mean to attack any fans that genuinely enjoy the movie, or fans that are just happy to have a movie -- we're all TMNT fans and all have our own views and histories with the franchise. --- Saw it with Lisardo back on opening day. Overall, hey, good times. Definitely "lite" (diet?) TMNT... sadly it's no grittier than the original movie, and, in fact, quite a bit less gritty than that, in fact. Absolutely no trace of blood or bruises (OK, we see a couple bandages at one point), and Mikey doesn't even get to use his nunchuks... or, at least, we don't get to SEE him using them in ANY capacity for spineless reasons, which is beyond stupid. Why not make a Spider-Man movie where Spidey can't shoot webs? A Wolverine film where he has no claws, maybe? I got it, a Punisher movie with no guns! What worked : Anything and everything to do with family, and particularly the aspect that is hammered home of brotherhood and forgiveness, unity. This is the glue that binds things together, and when we see it, it does, and well. Nice visuals, the CGI is top notch and I 5hit you not -- you can see the very individual pigments of the TMNT's skin at a close glance, and it's quite incredible. Action is fast-paced, and choreographed damned well (though, with CGI, what is choreography, really?). What didn't : Pretty much everything else. If you know me well, you know what this film probably means to me. That said, this movie makes no bones that it is intended pretty much for pre-teens (and it is, after all, rated PG... not even a dignified PG-13, which would suggest a movie called "Teenage" Mutant Ninja Turtles is actually to be viewed by teenagers)... which, in itself, is more than a little disturbingly ironic. The original TMNT is probably the film I've seen that tries to push the PG envelope to the maximum. I was really hoping to see this new CGI film try and dance that same line as close as it possibly could (nevermind the idiocy of a PG rating for a superhero film with teenaged ninjas anyway), unfortunately it seems to have gleefully embraced the PG rating even from its inception. I remember TMNT in 1990... there wasn't a great deal of blood or what-have-you, but there was an everpresent realism to the action on the stage. We spend a bit of time and get to know the very human members of the Foot Clan, the kids that run with them. The Turtles get cut; they bleed. They cut the Shredder; he bleeds. They use their weapons, we see it. Hell, Raphael gets rather violently knocked into a rather bloody/bruised coma for a good part of the film. In this film, some 17 years after the original film (!!!) there is no trace of blood or bruises to speak of, and shame on the filmmakers for not having the balls to show Michelangelo (and yes, Laird does exert his influence, I'd assume, to "correct" the spelling of his name in a subtitle shown in the film upon his reintroduction). Mikey wields his nunchuks, yet we never see him use them... in any kind of TMNT rulebook, this is just criminal. In a feature film intended to launch a new film franchise, simply shameful. I won't say the plot is hackneyed, but I'll just say it's not what it "should" be, which might not be fair... no review should be about what a film "could" be, but rather what it is. What it is at its core is the TMNT against some enchanted stone statues led by a dude that wants to do a Pokemon, "Gotta Catch'em All!" with a series of weird and wacky monsters to avert some sort of global dominion. In a follow up, a serial, or a cartoon, I'd have no problem with any of this. And to the writers' credit (and I believe Munroe himself is more or less the sole writer, who's only really ever been involved with video games prior to this movie), this is pretty much an entirely original tale of the TMNT -- taken as a whole, we've never seen any story like this in TMNT in any incarnation, any universe. As the fourth feature film (and it's obviously presented as, at the very least, a loose continuation of the first three films... note the "Death" of Shredder mentioned, the advanced relationship of Casey and April, the presence of the TGRI canister from TMNT II, the presence of the exact likeness of Shredder's mask from TMNT II, and the presence of the Sceptre from TMNT III at the end), or if you prefer, the first in what is obviously intended to be a theatrical rebirth of the franchise... it comes up short. What we needed was a still relatively kid-accessible TMNT film, yet still grassroots... but at the same time still possessing some modicum of BALLS. No monsters and magic and the like... the TMNT need to be the weirdest aspect of the story -- their enemies grounded in our own reality. Why not just adapt the old "City at War" story arc from the Mirage comics to suit the aftermath of the first three films, with the fallout of the (final) death of Shredder in TMNT II? But I digress... The greatest TMNT story arcs in the comics -- or, I'd even go so far as to say the larger TMNT universe at large, the Fred Wolf cartoon or 4Kids series, Archies -- are ones that don't feature oddities like monsters, magic, and the like (to be fair, there are some, even some classics). Nevertheless, as a starting point for a renewed movie franchise, this leaves something to be desired. And April O'Neil... I have no problem with her characterization here, or her voiceover by Buffy. Perfectly sound voice casting, and I won't even speak ill of the cartoony proportions applied to not only her but pretty much all of the human characters in the film (the Turtles, however, are damned spot-on!). I will speak ill, however, of the gigantic, dramatic leap of faith that is asked of us to believe that April, over the course of just a casual interest in martial arts and swordplay, is able to completely dismantle and subdue Karai, the leader of the entire Foot Clan -- Shredder's superior, were he still alive, no less. The end is laughable... no, literally. In what should have been a fairly poignant, sad moment in the end, instead is robbed of this and becomes a laugh-out-loud fest with Michelangelo turning things into a chuckle-fest for the benefit of the apparently coveted pre-teen audience. In summation, I'll just say what I've said before. As the fans that have supported and followed the TMNT over the years (or hell, even ones that have become disillusioned with the TMNT, "outgrown" them, and are willing to give it another go) get older and older, the TMNT property at large continues to aim younger and younger, even younger than previous incarnations did. I only speak for myself, but this is a disturbing, self-destructive cycle of events that I can only imagine will repeat itself yet again in another 10 years or so. TMNT 1 (rated PG) pushed it about as far as it could go -- we saw blood, mild language, and actual consequences to the fighting... seventeen years later, we get a movie that backpeddles and gives us NONE of the above (in lieu of the above, we get some Pokemon monster tom-foolery with nonsensical alignment-of-stars-opens-secret-Stargate -- nonsense I'd expect to see in a Playstation 1 game, not a TMNT feature film). Sorry, folks. Didn't like it. The most successful comic book films to date are ones that have stuck closest to the source material. Comics like Fantastic Four and Spider-Man are WAY kiddier than the Mirage TMNT, in which the Turtles would drink, swear, and chop off heads... yet while Fantastic Four and Spider-Man get relatively faithful adaptions of their comics with PG-13 ratings... TMNT gets kiddy nonsense and a PG rating? I'll never understand it. No chance in hell of a sequel, theatrically. A movie needs to break at least 80 million domestically for a sequel to even be a consideration, as sequels are expected to earn only half of what an original earns by financiers. And even today, to make a film that earns 100 million isn't even considered a "hit" anymore. May get Munroe's "TMNT 2: The Nonsense Return of Shredder"... but it'll be going straight to DVD folks, and that's if we're lucky. With Munroe's initial ideas for a sequel (straight from the horse's mouth, can point you to a recent interview) being the TMNT time-traveling to ancient Mayan times to fight off a space alien invasion... I'm not even sure I'd say we'd be lucky to see such a sequel. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

05-05-2007, 04:16 PM	#576
Rooish Devil's Advocate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 2,130	You know, that movie made me wish for Shredder. And I was sick of Shredder before the new toon even started. __________________ Thanks evan2000 for the sig!