My theory as to why TMNT hasn't been doing so good.

[iris]

Oh people, please don't start with the whole 'anime is the work the devil' thing. It's not like the US doesn't have its share of stupid, pointless cartoons. Has anyone seen Archie's Weird Mysteries? Yeesh.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

I'll tell you why TMNT failed

1) It was marketed towards little kids, bascially the wrong auidence. This show is clearly for teens and adults.

2) Kids like lame ass, stupid, plot hole filled, pointless, badly animated, horridly voice acted, anime. It lacks style, orginiality, and any form of intellectual thinking is not required in watching.

So shows like Naurto and Inyunasha are popular, as to where TMNT isn't. TMNT makes sense, has a storyline, and looks good*I mean really for a Saturday Morning cartoon this show looked good* Now TMNT has no shading really it just looks like some generic crap show on WB Kids.

True man. But there are still anime shows that I like(including Naruto).

It's sad there are no standards anymore. And you can make a psuedo-anime trash show, or just horribly dub a pre-exsisting one and bank off of it. Meanwhile shows like TMNT, Samurai Jack, and JLU which are true testaments to great american animation, are constantly given the shaft.

There needs to be another uprising. Disney, Nickelodeon, and WB all need to start going back to thier roots and pounding out excellent cartoons, rather than just pumping out the same old generic stuff.

Oh people, please don't start with the whole 'anime is the work the devil' thing. It's not like the US doesn't have its share of stupid, pointless cartoons. Has anyone seen Archie's Weird Mysteries? Yeesh.

Yes, unfourtunatley I have. But still, my theory is that when alot of anime shows started coming over sees, starting with Pokemon, it's just caused some american animators to slack off a bit.

[ZariusTwo]

Anime HAS stifiled american animation to the point it's nothing but pointless explosions and exposistion substituting for card commercials, even an anime fan like me wants every anime off of American air waves. Heck I hav'nt seen a good new anime in years except for the new Guyver anime. Alchemist was awesome, but it was by no doubt the last of a dying breed. Narutard sucks, it's only now wrapping up a filler arc before heading into the second stage of the Manga.

"Archie's Weird Mysteries" comes from the sadder days of DIC, a company that once aced modern day anime with M.A.S.K, Inspector Gadget, and Sonic SATAM.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

True man. But there are still anime shows that I like(including Naruto).
It's sad there are no standards anymore. And you can make a psuedo-anime trash show, or just horribly dub a pre-exsisting one and bank off of it. Meanwhile shows like TMNT, Samurai Jack, and JLU which are true testaments to great american animation, are constantly given the shaft.
There needs to be another uprising. Disney, Nickelodeon, and WB all need to start going back to thier roots and pounding out excellent cartoons, rather than just pumping out the same old generic stuff.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Anime HAS stifiled american animation to the point it's nothing but pointless explosions and exposistion substituting for card commercials, even an anime fan like me wants every anime off of American air waves. Heck I hav'nt seen a good new anime in years except for the new Guyver anime. Alchemist was awesome, but it was by no doubt the last of a dying breed. Narutard sucks, it's only now wrapping up a filler arc before heading into the second stage of the Manga.
"Archie's Weird Mysteries" comes from the sadder days of DIC, a company that once aced modern day anime with M.A.S.K, Inspector Gadget, and Sonic SATAM.

Amen to what the both of you said...those are my exact thoughts!

[raphaelprime]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Meanwhile shows like TMNT, Samurai Jack, and JLU which are true testaments to great american animation, are constantly given the shaft.

Yeah, but Samurai Jack not as much, its won an emmy, or golden globe or one of the big awards.

[Draconic]

The only problem with anime is that the decent ones, such as Paranoia Agent, Gantz and Hellsing, are not as popular as the crappy Yugi-oh, Pokemon, and Inu Yasha.

With the introduction of anime, more people have become interested in cartoons as a form of entertainment for all ages, and likely one of the reasons we can watch the TMNT without an alarming amount of ridicule we would have in the '80's. Also, while many minds have been warped beyond repair due to the introduction of anime, these are likely minds that wouldn't have been missed. And as unoriginal as anime may appear, it cannot be denied that it has inspired many people to pick up a pencil and start taking art seriously.

I'm not saying that American-made cartoons couldn't do the same in the magnitude that anime has, I'm just saying it didn't. Although, I will concede that most of these are "wanna-be no-talent" artists, regardless the interest in art is a step in the right direction.

If you don't like anime, so be it, it's probably not for you and that's cool, but to make generalized statements about how anime is degrading American society without acknowledging the benefits, is to make yourself look dumber than you might have yourself appear.

-Draconic

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

What benifets. If you consider hordes of baddly dubbed animes like Yu-Gi-Oh and Bobobo that are making so good American cartoons can't get the respect they deserve a benifit, then it's all good.

There are anime shows I like too, but theres just too much of it. It's getting to the point where we'll never have shows like Gargoyles or The Tick again.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Draconic

With the introduction of anime, more people have become interested in cartoons as a form of entertainment for all ages

Any mainstream portion of the audience sees anime as nothing more than three things: DBZ, Pokemon, and bad dubbing. That's it, anything else is a minority bonus who become enlightened, god bless CN and AS for knowing that and airing Bebop and Alchemist before they became only known through the minority interest

I'm not saying that American-made cartoons couldn't do the same in the magnitude that anime has, I'm just saying it didn't.

That's BS. Several people I know began drawing when they saw Ren and Stimpy and The Simpsons.

[Spitfire]

I like 3 anime shows. The new Hellsing*The old one is garbage, it butchered the manga*, Outlaw Star*Which is really funny*, and Cowboy Bebop.

I also like a few movies, like Princess Monoke. Other then that I havn't seen any other anime I like. The rest of it is all the same crap with bad production values and horrible plot. Even when I watched it subbed it still sucks. And Cartoon Network and 4Kids dubbing everything left and right and airing it isn't helping at all.

Now we got shows like Teen Titians that are forced to use this stupid style. It's like anime made by amercians...I just can't stand it. And now TMNT is at this level.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

That's BS. Several people I know began drawing when they saw Ren and Stimpy and The Simpsons.

exactly that's what me into art as a kid I just loved how everything looked!
those shows and the turtles.

[Unrealman]

I concur this anime influence needs to stop, leave anime to the japanese. A minority anime like Berserk would never aired on Cartoon Network or 4kids TV. it's just not as popular as Naurto, DBZ or Pokemon even though it has much better art and animation then all those shows combine. Heck does any one outside of Berserk's cult following even know the anime exists.

anime Berserk is missing a couple of things from the manga, First it doesn't tell you much about Gattsu past, like the fact that during his childhood he was molest by a dark skin mercenary ( Male). second unlike the manga , the anime never fully tells you what happen during the eclipse. Berserk is also missing some small tidbits from the manga here and there.

anime Berserk may not live up to the manga it's based on, but it's certainly alot better than most anime that's shown on Television these days.

Edit: This Fast Foward thing sucks as, I saw it on youtube and couldn't even get past the first episode. I Like what little bit I saw of the old 2k3 Cartoon before Cartoon Network took it down. I never had time to watch the old 2k3 on fox because it was never on when I awoke up at 3pm in afternoon.

[raphaelprime]

Anime isn't everyones favorite style i know. But i do like a little of it, mainly just the art of some, course the only anime i've really ever watched is FF:Unlimited and dbz/gt(and not the cleaned up CN version) and TMNT:SupermanLegend

[iris]

Originally Posted by Unrealman

...leave anime to the japanese.

Let's leave all the ninja stuff to the Japanese, too, how about that?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by iris

Let's leave all the ninja stuff to the Japanese, too, how about that?

....No, he has a point, America trying it either means few get the point nor grasp the art.

[iris]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

....No, he has a point, America trying it either means few get the point nor grasp the art.

That's absurd. "America" isn't one entity. Neither is "the Japanese," for that matter. And America is a mash off all sorts of cultures to begin with. Cultures affect each other through individual interaction as well as mass media. Stuff made for the masses is usually of inferior quality, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted just because not everyone can appreciate the art. Japan has its share of low-quality anime as well.

[ZariusTwo]

No, the art is abused, when it's done properly, (SRMTHFG), people don't watch it, the best efforts come from emulating the style of the older school territories (PPG), Teen Titans is a great series, but it's animation grates on my nerves because it's not emulating anime, it's using it as a ratings card

Japan clearly grasps western animation, otherwise Bebop would'nt be regarded as a great balance of anime and western influence

[iris]

Yeah, the art is abused, but isn't that true of any art? Most ends up being exploited for profit, in the hands of certain people. The Ninja Turtles franchise itself contains all extremes of that (the very good and the very bad). Doesn't mean nobody gets it... clearly some people do. But the low quality stuff simply outcompetes the higher quality stuff on the market, in most cases. I guess it's less about art and more about economics: How do you mass-market a specialty product? In the case of TMNT 2K3, you apparently have to turn it into an infomercial for toys.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Is that really all to the TMNT there is now. Is that what all cartoons are for 30 minute toy comercials? You know, I actually envy the Japanese, because theyr'e cartoons are regarded with respect. Here, theyr'e look down upon like kiddie crap. It's BS like that, that makes me just want to up and move to Japan or something.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Is that really all to the TMNT there is now. Is that what all cartoons are for 30 minute toy comercials? You know, I actually envy the Japanese, because theyr'e cartoons are regarded with respect. Here, theyr'e look down upon like kiddie crap. It's BS like that, that makes me just want to up and move to Japan or something.

...Most of their work without the dub latley has been kiddie crap, I don't just hate the DUBS of One Peice, Naruto, and Inyushua, I hate them period. Alchemist was a return to form of the old school shows that dominated CN like Gundam Wing, Macross, and Bebop, not this enlongated DBZ wannabes

[iris]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Is that really all to the TMNT there is now. Is that what all cartoons are for 30 minute toy comercials?

No, that's definitely not what I'm saying. But advertising has always been part of network television, and the toy biz has always comprised a large part of adverts during shows targeted at kids. Along came certain shows that just lent themselves to toy merchandizing (not to mention toys that lent themselves to cartoon shows) and you had a lucrative partnership. Who here didn't have Transformers toys? This developed well before 1987 (beginning in earnest around 1983), so it's possible, and maybe probable, that merchandizing potential has always been considered along with anything else TMNT offers.

I actually think that with the advent of DVR technology and the ability to skip ads, we are going to be seeing many more product placements and merchandizing woven into shows. Check out the way Smallville hawks albums, for one example. Somebody save me.