For Wrestling Fans... - Page 3

*That Matt Guy* · 03-16-2003, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWEFreakazoid

ROFLMAO!!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! WORST WRESTLEMANIA EVER WAS WRESTLEMANIA 2000 (16) There is so many good matches this wrestlemania, i dont understand how you can even say that!

I have watched wrestling for years, I have seen it all. And besides, nothing can ever compare to that Undertaker vs Mankind "Hell In Cell" match they had few years ago at Summerslam (I think it was Summerslam) They don't even do cool stuff like that anymore.; and their "hardcore" matches are pure crap except for maybe the ladder matches. It's only a matter of time before the WWE throws in the old Austin vs Undertaker card again!

*R-iZZy* · 03-16-2003, 01:11 PM

Rock vs Stone Cold - Stone Cold (Rock made his presence felt already, it's time Stone Cold comes back with a bang!)

Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon - Vince McMahon (Vince always manages to get his way when it comes to PPVs)

Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Kurt Angle (Well... he did beat him on SD!)

Booker T vs. Triple H - Booker T (He's gotta avenge what Evolution has done to Goldust)

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - HBK (If Jericho can't be Triple H and HBK can... then it's almost obvious that HBK has this one)

Undertaker / Nathan Jones vs. Big Show / A-Train - Undertaker/Nathan Jones (Nathan is psycho crazy... and Undertaker, well, his name speaks for himself)

Los Guerreros vs. Team Angle vs. Chris Benoit / Rhyno - Chris Benoit/RhYno (I'm sayin' this because RhYno is my favorite wrestler... ever since I saw this bull-built figure in ECW... and Chris Benoit is so dang tough and dangerous. Two dangerous people together means trouble)

Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio - Matt Hardy v1.0 (I always liked Matt more than Jeff, because I knew he could really make a name for himself. Rey is my favorite cruiserweight, but I'ma be serious... Matt is one tough cookie to beat.)

**GK Punk** · 03-16-2003, 07:07 PM

you know what's really sad? I was talking to my brother, and he pointed out how long we've been watching wrestling... 19 years.. we started shortly after wrestlemania 1. Jeezus that makes me feel old

~~Leo656~~ · 03-16-2003, 07:39 PM

Rock vs Stone Cold - I honestly couldn't care less. I'm BEYOND sick of BOTH of them, and I'm even more sick of them fighting each other. This one's up in the air, since Rock's leaving in a month to do another movie while Austin might need time off to rest his neck. Still, I'm gonna say Austin because he just came back and Vince has to kiss his ass as much as possible so he doesn't take his ball and go home again.
WINNER: Stone Cold

Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon - The only match I actually care about. If Vince put himself over Hogan at the biggest show of the year I'd never forgive him. I can see him doing it, because Vince is a moron, but on the other hand you have to figure that Vince has a bit more historical perspective than that. Plus the word is that Hogan and the WWE have agreed to terms on a new contract, so it looks like Hogan will be around for a few more months at least. Nostalgia plus a new contract means Hogan goes over.
WINNER: Hogan

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - This one is a gimme. It's sad, because it could have been a great, great match, but with Angle's broken neck this one is even more of a dead giveaway than HBK-Austin from Wrestlemania 14. Brock wins in a short match booked to protect Angle's neck, maybe using a bearhug or Angle's own Anklelock instead of the F5.
WINNER: Brock Lesnar

Booker T vs Triple H - I'd give anything for Booker to shoot on Trips during the match and kick him in the kneecap for those "people like you" and "nappy hair" comments. I really could have done without all the racist undertones that come with this angle. Then again, they've been hinting that Trips was a racist all the way back to the DX-Nation of Domination feud, so maybe it's not surprising. Nostalgia and logic says that the face (Booker) goes over, but Trips is Trips, so I don't see him laying down. Trips with a screwjob.
WINNER: Triple H

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - Actually, I have to change an earlier statement. This match interests me, if only because I've never seen it. Jericho is amazing, and Michaels is surprisingly capable given his physical condition, so this match oughta be good. Personally, Jericho making Shawn tap to the Walls of Jericho would be a stand up and cheer moment for me. Not to mention it would give Jericho some much-needed credibility that he hasn't had since Trips stripped him of it last year at 'Mania. Still, the fans will want to see Michaels win at the biggest show of the year, so HBK will go over clean with a Superkick.
WINNER: HBK

Undertaker/Nathan Jones vs Big Show/A-Train - This match is going to be terrible. When The Undertaker is the most athletic guy in the match, you know you're in trouble. Taker and Jones have to go over, since this match was put together only because Taker never loses at Wrestlemania. Originally it was planned to be Taker vs Jones, but Jones's "new guy" momentum might have meant Taker jobs, and that just doesn't happen. Taker and Jones win in a trainwreck of a match (no pun intended), but it might be interesting if Jones starts lactating again mid-match.
WINNERS: Undertaker and Nathan Jones

Los Guerreros vs Team Angle vs Chris Benoit and Rhyno - This match oughta be good. I definitely smell a title change, as Angle's neck surgery and impending abscence means Hass and Benjamin are just about due to get sent back down to Velocity tapings. I'd love for Rhyno and Benoit to take it, but that would require making Benoit look good, and that just doesn't happen. I think Eddy and Chavo take it and cement their nonsensical face turn.
WINNERS: Eddy and Chavo Guerrero

Matt Hardy vs Rey Misterio - This'll probably be the opening match, unless we get a Raw Tag Title match added to the card. Rey's knees are hurting again, and Matt frankly has no storyline outside the Cruiserweight belt, so the safe bet would say Matt retains. However, if it is the opener, the face should win to get the crowd hot right off the bat, necessitating a Misterio win. Personally, weighing all the factors, I'll say Rey wins, only to drop the strap back to Matt in a week or two and take a few weeks off, then come back and form a tag team with the incoming Ultimo Dragon.
WINNER: Rey Misterio

It's definitely the best Wrestlemania ever in the "big names" category, it's just too bad that injuries, age and politics might keep most of the matches from reaching their full potential.

*That Matt Guy* · 03-16-2003, 07:42 PM

I don't think wrestling will ever be good again unless they bring back La Parka.

beaker · 03-16-2003, 08:49 PM

Watched part of the Raw recap last night. Ok, how the HELL can any so called fan accept this garbage? Do you not see the way The Rock is now when he speaks? Yes, in the ring he is IMHO the best damn exiciting wrestler today, but the man's new gimmick doesnt work...and nothing is conving like in the ol days. The backstage skits and soap opera stuff is lame, and I wish they never started that crap in the late 90's.

Ok, yeah they got huge big name matches for WM...but they cant seem to make the buildup interesting at all. ITs like just big names for the sake of big names.

greatpandaonita · 03-16-2003, 10:35 PM

Quote:

I don't think wrestling will ever be good again unless they bring back La Parka.

My god, I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

~~Leo656~~ · 03-16-2003, 10:49 PM

I hate Flex, always have, so his "new gimmick" doesn't bother me. In truth, I can ONLY tolerate him when he's a heel. When he's a heel, he's kind of funny; when he's a face, he's just annoying. It's the basis of his character: he's cocky, conceited and thinks he's better than everyone. That kind of character only works with a heel; it's far too shallow. For example, Mick Foley pointed out in his second book that his team with Flex was supposed to, in the long run, give Flex a more rounded character. Flex was eventually supposed to start becoming more of a friend to Mankind; in the end, though, all Flex did was act like he was disgusted to even be around Mankind, even though they were supposed to be friends and partners, and it hurt the angle.

As for his wrestling, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Flex isn't exciting to me, he doesn't "electrify" me... he just isn't very good. His moves are sloppy and repetitive, his punches and kicks are absolutely terrible, his submission holds (especially the Crap-Shooter) are loose to the point of piss-poor, and only Scotty 2 Hotty has a worse finisher. His selling is a joke; either he no-sells completely or flops around the mat like a fish (complete with open-mouthed gasping, furthering the simile). His only advantage over the other "main eventers" is that everything he does is fast, whereas the others are hampered by age, injuries, or a combination.

As for the writing, yeah, it is bad, and that's what you can expect when the people writing wrestling shows are people that used to write for "Friends" and "Seinfeld". The shows are going to suck until the people in charge (Vince and Steph) wake up and realize that spontaneity is vital to wrestling. Ever get the feeling watching Raw and Smackdown these days that the words coming out of the wrestlers mouths seem almost forced? It's because almost every word they say is being written for them, and the result is a bunch of professional athletes trying (and failing) to be actors. It doesn't work.

At Wrestlemania 5, Hulk Hogan gave an incredible promo before his match with Randy Savage, in which he compared the match to an earth-shattering eruption that would split open the Earth and swallow the arena, etc etc etc. It was completely overblown, hyperbolic, and over the top, but never once did it feel "fake". And you know why? Because Hogan in all likelihood made that promo up in his head five minutes before the red light came on. Why? Because NOBODY in their right mind would actually write a script like that. And that's good, because scripted, poorly-delivered, poorly-acted interviews and backstage skits are a big part of what sucks about wrestling right now.

And the matches? Same problem. Everything feels too choreographed, too scripted, too "fake". A few years ago, guys would be told the finish, asked to work in a few key spots, then go to the ring and put together a match. Nowadays you have guys like Flex who actually rehearses his matches in full sometimes in the weeks before they go on. The result might be crisp and clean and fast-paced, but it just looks too homogenized. I miss when it actually looked like there was a struggle in the ring, not a poorly-acted ballet.

As for the buildup to Wrestlemania, it could be worse. The heat between HHH and Booker is a joke and an insult, but the other matches aren't too bad. Hogan-Vince is coming together nicely, HBK-Jericho has been pretty much fine since January except the pointless side feud with Test... Brock-Angle is slipshod, but that makes sense when they didn't even know week to week if the match would even happen. And the rest of the stuff is the usual filler that nobody ordering the show cares about anyway. Much as I love Benoit, the Smackdown Tag Title match isn't going to sell a single PPV.

*That Matt Guy* · 03-16-2003, 11:05 PM

I think one of the WWE's problems is their giant roster, there isn't enough time to showcase all of the talent. That was also one of WCW's major flaws at one time.

**GK Punk** · 03-16-2003, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaker

Watched part of the Raw recap last night. Ok, how the HELL can any so called fan accept this garbage? Do you not see the way The Rock is now when he speaks? Yes, in the ring he is IMHO the best damn exiciting wrestler today, but the man's new gimmick doesnt work...and nothing is conving like in the ol days. The backstage skits and soap opera stuff is lame, and I wish they never started that crap in the late 90's.

Ok, yeah they got huge big name matches for WM...but they cant seem to make the buildup interesting at all. ITs like just big names for the sake of big names.

Here's an Idea... If als you are going to do is come in her to talk trash, then go to a different thread. I really hate it when people think they are better because "I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

greatpandaonita · 03-17-2003, 12:37 AM

Quote:

"I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

I watched wrestling in the 80s. Wrestling sucked back then as all matches involved talent enhancement matches and the big money matches were at ppv's.

It's weird, I feel that Rock is at his best mic work since his last run as a heel vs. Mankind. His ringwork is acceptable but hardly earthshattering. Let us just say that I would rather watch Rock wrestle than say A-Train or Big Show, or Undertaker. My god, is that gonna be a horrible match.

**GK Punk** · 03-17-2003, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatpandaonita

Quote:

"I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

I watched wrestling in the 80s. Wrestling sucked back then as all matches involved talent enhancement matches and the big money matches were at ppv's.

It's weird, I feel that Rock is at his best mic work since his last run as a heel vs. Mankind. His ringwork is acceptable but hardly earthshattering. Let us just say that I would rather watch Rock wrestle than say A-Train or Big Show, or Undertaker. My god, is that gonna be a horrible match.

Actually, I wasnt saying wrestling was better in the 80s, im just sick of talking to wrestling fans on the internet that hate it now, because it was "better" in the 80's. Im a lifelong Wrestling fan, and I get sick of hearing these things from people who only watch it during the "wrestling is cool" days like the Mid 80s and Mid 90s

*That Matt Guy* · 03-17-2003, 02:38 AM

I don't think wrestling was that great in the 80s, in those days the WWF claimed professional wrestling was real

I guess the 80s were great because of the Hulkster...

beaker · 03-17-2003, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunger_kittie

Here's an Idea... If als you are going to do is come in her to talk trash, then go to a different thread. I really hate it when people think they are better because "I WATCHED IN THE 80'S! YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU LIKE IT NOW!" The 80s are over

Let me say this. I was one of the world's biggest, and I MEAN biggest wrestling fans from 1986 when I first saw WWF Superstars in a New York airport...til last year when I realized it was just falling apart...

I can attest nothing beat the WWF of the late 80's. That was a magical time. The worst time besides now was 93-96...dear god that just sucked.
The WWF worked best when it was spontanous, edge of your seat, 'dangerous'...the 'new' era of WWE is beyond pathetic, to the point I question how people can even watch it.

When I say how big a fan I *was*...I followed wrestling like nobodies business for over a decade. The smallest indie circuit promotions to the WWF, and NWA(WCW) I even tried to pursue a career on the indie circuit.
I went to countless house cards, tv tapings, PPV's. Ive talked with the wrestlers, and knew vastly so much about the politics and ins and outs of the business, before every mark out there learned all the secrets when the internet came around. soon every kid out there was doing backyard matches, the WCW was falling apart, and the internet ruined every damn plotline. There is virtually no move, hold, term, word, secret, or politic I dont know about the wrestling game up until a few years ago.

However, my enthusiasm for wrestling has not been all that great since 1998 or so. There is no more wrestling. When vince bought WCW, it was the end of the sport as we knew it. They bungled what could have been the coolest wrestling fan wet dream ever(WWF vs WCW/ECW), the bungled ECW in general, theybungled the nWo plot, and now they are bungling what little show they have. The WWE is PURE 100% unadulterated crap, and Im sure a lot of current and former WWF people would back that statement up. There is no creaitivty, no spontanaity, no draw, no originality, no innovation, no excitement...pretty much there is no reason to watch or be a fan anymore. Its sad, Ive devoted a remarkable amount of time to 'sports entertainment' over the years, so when I say wrestling sucks now thats not just a blind wild accusation, thats th ecold hard facts. Vinve and them just dont care anymore. Dont think for a moment they wouldnt parade Rock in a diaper and bonnet reciting showtunes...its all about the dollar, as they could give a crap about excitement.

**GK Punk** · 03-17-2003, 04:09 AM

okay, but the point to my post was Don't come in this thread, if you are going to Insult us for liking it still, as you began to do in your last post. If someone posted something about DBZ you won't see me go in there and say "people are dumb for liking that lame show"

*R-iZZy* · 03-17-2003, 09:21 AM

But I agree... the moment Vince bought WCW and ECW... that practically ruined everything!!! Do you know when the WWF was at its highest popularity? When it was competing with two other big-named feds (WCW and ECW). He had to take things to the extreme to beat his competition. And with the angles he did, they attracted us crazy fans. Personally, I think he beat WCW... but I don't think anyone would have compared to ECW!!!

When Vince bought WCW and ECW... he could've made the best war ever! He had the opportunity to make this the biggest war you could ever witness... but it ended up nothing but WWF vs. Alliance matches, no angles, a bunch of traitors, and the classic "let's settle this once and for all". It was one of the best things to see, but it wasn't THE best angle to watch.

And now that Vince killed the war, he killed all interest. What needs to happen is the rebirth of WCW and/or ECW. But Vince isn't using the talent to his advantage. Look at this... you have the most thugged-out wrestler of ECW (Taz) becoming a clown behind an announcer's booth... you have people like Justin Credible, one of the baddest ECW Heavyweight Champs ever, now just becoming a jobber for small people and rookies. You have Steiner as Triple H's play thing... Heyman has no power like he did in ECW, he's just a bald-headed band wagoner that climbs aboard the lackey express for big-time wreslters... you make Raven a rookie killer... Dudley Boyz are ALMOST doing their part, but tables are barely used when they set them up... Tommy Dreamer is just some guy with a kendo stick now... and RhYno... well, I think his level of iniquity has drastically plummeted... OH MY GOODNESS... the worst mistake EVER was what he did to nWo!!! THE WORST EVER!!! When they first started out, they were badasses as they should've, but then this recruiting thing began and almost everyone split up worse than The Beetles.

If Vince had not been so caught up in his own indulgences, he would've figured that killing his competition would kill him as well.

I'm still the biggest wrestling fan ever... for I watch whatever I can, buy the video games, wrestle backyard, and everything else... but I can only ask, where has old school wresting gone? Where have the interest gone? Where has ANYTHING gone?

beaker · 03-18-2003, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Turtle Nincompoop

But I agree... the moment Vince bought WCW and ECW... that practically ruined everything!!! Do you know when the WWF was at its highest popularity? When it was competing with two other big-named feds (WCW and ECW). He had to take things to the extreme to beat his competition. And with the angles he did, they attracted us crazy fans.

Exactly, so when I see these fans try to defend the current WWF ...its just sad. Its like saying "wow, I really love what Lucas is doing with the new Star Wars films!"

there is very little incetive to endure even 5 minutes of the current WWE...its beyond embarassing and I hope the company either shapes up or ships out. Man, where is the real E-C-Dub when you need it?

*R-iZZy* · 03-18-2003, 08:47 AM

Well don't get them wrong... though the storylines can't compete to the old ones, doesn't mean they're terrible now! They are good, but not great! WWF (I hate the E) is still holding strong and still grabs my attention, but sometimes you have to let the past go and accept new things. That's what I did... and I'm still loving wrestling, just like I love those darn turtles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaker

Man, where is the real E-C-Dub when you need it?

Seriously!!! That was my favorite federation, even before WWF and WCW combined. The whole point of wrestling is violence... and that's what Heyman gave us back then. Too bad all ECW stars became jobbers in the WWF... which pretty much pissed me off.

beaker · 03-18-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Turtle Nincompoop

Well don't get them wrong... though the storylines can't compete to the old ones, doesn't mean they're terrible now! They are good, but not great! WWF (I hate the E) is still holding strong and still grabs my attention, but sometimes you have to let the past go and accept new things. That's what I did... and I'm still loving wrestling, just like I love those darn turtles.

Having watched wrestling extensively for over a decade and a half...and knowing people that used to be int he business/and or know the ins and out...believe when I say an overhwelming lifelong hardcore WWF fans are extremely displeased for the last year with the WWF(I also refuse to say "E" just baucse of some court ordered BS)

When the ECW angle was real, back in the fall of 1996...when it was unscripted and the WWF genuinely didnt want them interfering with matches, live hotline shows, etc...that was when it was 'truly edgy'

Best 3 moments ever in the least decade of WWF:

ECW invades Raw
WWF invaders WCW on live TV(d-x at nitro)
ECW interferes unnounced during a sept 1997 PPV and the subesequent RAW, both not apprived.

the 1997 ECW angle, when it became psuedo scripted, was brilliant...in 1997/early 1998(Tyson, DX invading Nitro) you iddnt know what was scripted or shoot...and that was the magic. Thats all gone now, as is ECW...the single most exciting thing to hit wrestling since the nWo. This, combined with horrible writing and comedy brings me to say I have absolutely zero respect for the WWF, find it painful to watch even 5 minutes of(since they hardly even have actual matches, or exciting high flyers) and am completely puzzled why any fan can just blindly accept this garbage.

Bottom line the WWF does not care about innovation or appealing to fans. No, they count on the fans being blind to the fact they SUCK beyond belief.
Unless you wanna see rippling pecks and horrific skits that make MadTV look like Law and Order...there is zero reason to pay any mind to the modern WWF.

*R-iZZy* · 03-18-2003, 03:00 PM

Those have got to be some of the most valid points... but you can always look forward to seeing some kind of comedy... like Goldust. If you were still watching, you'd crack up. I recognize that his stuff is fake, but to believe in it just for the hell of it is what makes me keep going. When I lose faith in the WWF... that's when I'll truly stop for good. But until then, I'm gonna be dedicated to them.

03-16-2003, 01:11 PM	#42
R-iZZy The Long Con Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: G'ville, FL (Gator Country), USA Posts: 3,007	Rock vs Stone Cold - Stone Cold (Rock made his presence felt already, it's time Stone Cold comes back with a bang!) Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon - Vince McMahon (Vince always manages to get his way when it comes to PPVs) Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Kurt Angle (Well... he did beat him on SD!) Booker T vs. Triple H - Booker T (He's gotta avenge what Evolution has done to Goldust) Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - HBK (If Jericho can't be Triple H and HBK can... then it's almost obvious that HBK has this one) Undertaker / Nathan Jones vs. Big Show / A-Train - Undertaker/Nathan Jones (Nathan is psycho crazy... and Undertaker, well, his name speaks for himself) Los Guerreros vs. Team Angle vs. Chris Benoit / Rhyno - Chris Benoit/RhYno (I'm sayin' this because RhYno is my favorite wrestler... ever since I saw this bull-built figure in ECW... and Chris Benoit is so dang tough and dangerous. Two dangerous people together means trouble) Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio - Matt Hardy v1.0 (I always liked Matt more than Jeff, because I knew he could really make a name for himself. Rey is my favorite cruiserweight, but I'ma be serious... Matt is one tough cookie to beat.) __________________

03-16-2003, 08:49 PM	#46
beaker Hench Mutant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 483	Watched part of the Raw recap last night. Ok, how the HELL can any so called fan accept this garbage? Do you not see the way The Rock is now when he speaks? Yes, in the ring he is IMHO the best damn exiciting wrestler today, but the man's new gimmick doesnt work...and nothing is conving like in the ol days. The backstage skits and soap opera stuff is lame, and I wish they never started that crap in the late 90's. Ok, yeah they got huge big name matches for WM...but they cant seem to make the buildup interesting at all. ITs like just big names for the sake of big names. __________________ .:\\.:beaker:.//:. let the 80's entropy begin!

03-17-2003, 09:21 AM	#56
R-iZZy The Long Con Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: G'ville, FL (Gator Country), USA Posts: 3,007	But I agree... the moment Vince bought WCW and ECW... that practically ruined everything!!! Do you know when the WWF was at its highest popularity? When it was competing with two other big-named feds (WCW and ECW). He had to take things to the extreme to beat his competition. And with the angles he did, they attracted us crazy fans. Personally, I think he beat WCW... but I don't think anyone would have compared to ECW!!! When Vince bought WCW and ECW... he could've made the best war ever! He had the opportunity to make this the biggest war you could ever witness... but it ended up nothing but WWF vs. Alliance matches, no angles, a bunch of traitors, and the classic "let's settle this once and for all". It was one of the best things to see, but it wasn't THE best angle to watch. And now that Vince killed the war, he killed all interest. What needs to happen is the rebirth of WCW and/or ECW. But Vince isn't using the talent to his advantage. Look at this... you have the most thugged-out wrestler of ECW (Taz) becoming a clown behind an announcer's booth... you have people like Justin Credible, one of the baddest ECW Heavyweight Champs ever, now just becoming a jobber for small people and rookies. You have Steiner as Triple H's play thing... Heyman has no power like he did in ECW, he's just a bald-headed band wagoner that climbs aboard the lackey express for big-time wreslters... you make Raven a rookie killer... Dudley Boyz are ALMOST doing their part, but tables are barely used when they set them up... Tommy Dreamer is just some guy with a kendo stick now... and RhYno... well, I think his level of iniquity has drastically plummeted... OH MY GOODNESS... the worst mistake EVER was what he did to nWo!!! THE WORST EVER!!! When they first started out, they were badasses as they should've, but then this recruiting thing began and almost everyone split up worse than The Beetles. If Vince had not been so caught up in his own indulgences, he would've figured that killing his competition would kill him as well. I'm still the biggest wrestling fan ever... for I watch whatever I can, buy the video games, wrestle backyard, and everything else... but I can only ask, where has old school wresting gone? Where have the interest gone? Where has ANYTHING gone? __________________

03-18-2003, 03:00 PM	#60
R-iZZy The Long Con Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: G'ville, FL (Gator Country), USA Posts: 3,007	Those have got to be some of the most valid points... but you can always look forward to seeing some kind of comedy... like Goldust. If you were still watching, you'd crack up. I recognize that his stuff is fake, but to believe in it just for the hell of it is what makes me keep going. When I lose faith in the WWF... that's when I'll truly stop for good. But until then, I'm gonna be dedicated to them. __________________

03-16-2003, 07:07 PM	#43
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	you know what's really sad? I was talking to my brother, and he pointed out how long we've been watching wrestling... 19 years.. we started shortly after wrestlemania 1. Jeezus that makes me feel old

03-16-2003, 07:39 PM	#44
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Rock vs Stone Cold - I honestly couldn't care less. I'm BEYOND sick of BOTH of them, and I'm even more sick of them fighting each other. This one's up in the air, since Rock's leaving in a month to do another movie while Austin might need time off to rest his neck. Still, I'm gonna say Austin because he just came back and Vince has to kiss his ass as much as possible so he doesn't take his ball and go home again. WINNER: Stone Cold Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon - The only match I actually care about. If Vince put himself over Hogan at the biggest show of the year I'd never forgive him. I can see him doing it, because Vince is a moron, but on the other hand you have to figure that Vince has a bit more historical perspective than that. Plus the word is that Hogan and the WWE have agreed to terms on a new contract, so it looks like Hogan will be around for a few more months at least. Nostalgia plus a new contract means Hogan goes over. WINNER: Hogan Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - This one is a gimme. It's sad, because it could have been a great, great match, but with Angle's broken neck this one is even more of a dead giveaway than HBK-Austin from Wrestlemania 14. Brock wins in a short match booked to protect Angle's neck, maybe using a bearhug or Angle's own Anklelock instead of the F5. WINNER: Brock Lesnar Booker T vs Triple H - I'd give anything for Booker to shoot on Trips during the match and kick him in the kneecap for those "people like you" and "nappy hair" comments. I really could have done without all the racist undertones that come with this angle. Then again, they've been hinting that Trips was a racist all the way back to the DX-Nation of Domination feud, so maybe it's not surprising. Nostalgia and logic says that the face (Booker) goes over, but Trips is Trips, so I don't see him laying down. Trips with a screwjob. WINNER: Triple H Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - Actually, I have to change an earlier statement. This match interests me, if only because I've never seen it. Jericho is amazing, and Michaels is surprisingly capable given his physical condition, so this match oughta be good. Personally, Jericho making Shawn tap to the Walls of Jericho would be a stand up and cheer moment for me. Not to mention it would give Jericho some much-needed credibility that he hasn't had since Trips stripped him of it last year at 'Mania. Still, the fans will want to see Michaels win at the biggest show of the year, so HBK will go over clean with a Superkick. WINNER: HBK Undertaker/Nathan Jones vs Big Show/A-Train - This match is going to be terrible. When The Undertaker is the most athletic guy in the match, you know you're in trouble. Taker and Jones have to go over, since this match was put together only because Taker never loses at Wrestlemania. Originally it was planned to be Taker vs Jones, but Jones's "new guy" momentum might have meant Taker jobs, and that just doesn't happen. Taker and Jones win in a trainwreck of a match (no pun intended), but it might be interesting if Jones starts lactating again mid-match. WINNERS: Undertaker and Nathan Jones Los Guerreros vs Team Angle vs Chris Benoit and Rhyno - This match oughta be good. I definitely smell a title change, as Angle's neck surgery and impending abscence means Hass and Benjamin are just about due to get sent back down to Velocity tapings. I'd love for Rhyno and Benoit to take it, but that would require making Benoit look good, and that just doesn't happen. I think Eddy and Chavo take it and cement their nonsensical face turn. WINNERS: Eddy and Chavo Guerrero Matt Hardy vs Rey Misterio - This'll probably be the opening match, unless we get a Raw Tag Title match added to the card. Rey's knees are hurting again, and Matt frankly has no storyline outside the Cruiserweight belt, so the safe bet would say Matt retains. However, if it is the opener, the face should win to get the crowd hot right off the bat, necessitating a Misterio win. Personally, weighing all the factors, I'll say Rey wins, only to drop the strap back to Matt in a week or two and take a few weeks off, then come back and form a tag team with the incoming Ultimo Dragon. WINNER: Rey Misterio It's definitely the best Wrestlemania ever in the "big names" category, it's just too bad that injuries, age and politics might keep most of the matches from reaching their full potential.

03-16-2003, 07:42 PM	#45
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	I don't think wrestling will ever be good again unless they bring back La Parka.

03-16-2003, 10:49 PM	#48
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I hate Flex, always have, so his "new gimmick" doesn't bother me. In truth, I can ONLY tolerate him when he's a heel. When he's a heel, he's kind of funny; when he's a face, he's just annoying. It's the basis of his character: he's cocky, conceited and thinks he's better than everyone. That kind of character only works with a heel; it's far too shallow. For example, Mick Foley pointed out in his second book that his team with Flex was supposed to, in the long run, give Flex a more rounded character. Flex was eventually supposed to start becoming more of a friend to Mankind; in the end, though, all Flex did was act like he was disgusted to even be around Mankind, even though they were supposed to be friends and partners, and it hurt the angle. As for his wrestling, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Flex isn't exciting to me, he doesn't "electrify" me... he just isn't very good. His moves are sloppy and repetitive, his punches and kicks are absolutely terrible, his submission holds (especially the Crap-Shooter) are loose to the point of piss-poor, and only Scotty 2 Hotty has a worse finisher. His selling is a joke; either he no-sells completely or flops around the mat like a fish (complete with open-mouthed gasping, furthering the simile). His only advantage over the other "main eventers" is that everything he does is fast, whereas the others are hampered by age, injuries, or a combination. As for the writing, yeah, it is bad, and that's what you can expect when the people writing wrestling shows are people that used to write for "Friends" and "Seinfeld". The shows are going to suck until the people in charge (Vince and Steph) wake up and realize that spontaneity is vital to wrestling. Ever get the feeling watching Raw and Smackdown these days that the words coming out of the wrestlers mouths seem almost forced? It's because almost every word they say is being written for them, and the result is a bunch of professional athletes trying (and failing) to be actors. It doesn't work. At Wrestlemania 5, Hulk Hogan gave an incredible promo before his match with Randy Savage, in which he compared the match to an earth-shattering eruption that would split open the Earth and swallow the arena, etc etc etc. It was completely overblown, hyperbolic, and over the top, but never once did it feel "fake". And you know why? Because Hogan in all likelihood made that promo up in his head five minutes before the red light came on. Why? Because NOBODY in their right mind would actually write a script like that. And that's good, because scripted, poorly-delivered, poorly-acted interviews and backstage skits are a big part of what sucks about wrestling right now. And the matches? Same problem. Everything feels too choreographed, too scripted, too "fake". A few years ago, guys would be told the finish, asked to work in a few key spots, then go to the ring and put together a match. Nowadays you have guys like Flex who actually rehearses his matches in full sometimes in the weeks before they go on. The result might be crisp and clean and fast-paced, but it just looks too homogenized. I miss when it actually looked like there was a struggle in the ring, not a poorly-acted ballet. As for the buildup to Wrestlemania, it could be worse. The heat between HHH and Booker is a joke and an insult, but the other matches aren't too bad. Hogan-Vince is coming together nicely, HBK-Jericho has been pretty much fine since January except the pointless side feud with Test... Brock-Angle is slipshod, but that makes sense when they didn't even know week to week if the match would even happen. And the rest of the stuff is the usual filler that nobody ordering the show cares about anyway. Much as I love Benoit, the Smackdown Tag Title match isn't going to sell a single PPV.

03-16-2003, 11:05 PM	#49
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	I think one of the WWE's problems is their giant roster, there isn't enough time to showcase all of the talent. That was also one of WCW's major flaws at one time.

03-17-2003, 02:38 AM	#53
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	I don't think wrestling was that great in the 80s, in those days the WWF claimed professional wrestling was real I guess the 80s were great because of the Hulkster...

03-17-2003, 04:09 AM	#55
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	okay, but the point to my post was Don't come in this thread, if you are going to Insult us for liking it still, as you began to do in your last post. If someone posted something about DBZ you won't see me go in there and say "people are dumb for liking that lame show"