Killing and Violence In TMNT - Page 3

*Jephael* · 03-28-2003, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan

I grew up with the old cartoon. Call it slapstick humor, call it goofy, call it whatever you want. But it was okay to watch; it was safe. I open up a Mirage comic book, and it's like I've stepped into an alien world. It's hardly recognizeable.

You're not alone, dude. I'm still very partial to the original cartoon show as is Mondo Gecko. I also like the new show for what it is, and I love the paralells between both.

*Duke* · 03-28-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jephael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan

I grew up with the old cartoon. Call it slapstick humor, call it goofy, call it whatever you want. But it was okay to watch; it was safe. I open up a Mirage comic book, and it's like I've stepped into an alien world. It's hardly recognizeable.

You're not alone, dude. I'm still very partial to the original cartoon show as is Mondo Gecko. I also like the new show for what it is, and I love the paralells between both.

I will always love the old show more than the new one but that doesn't mean i don't want alot of violence in a new tmnt projects.

**Karpo_007** · 03-28-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke

There would be absolutely no problem with more violence in the new show. Not that it doesn't have alot more than the original cartoon but they could still get away w/ more. At first i was like man maybe they were pushing the limits the way it is now. I mean it is a kids tv line up but then after last week i discided that they could have the violence of the chain and nobody would complain. Why u ask. I'll tell you why, because when they chose to interrupt the foxbox line up with war coverage. Thats why. I mean you would have to make a cartoon extremely violent to come close to some of the violence they show during the war coverage.

IF TMNT = foxbox line up
and foxbox line up = war coverage
and war coverage = violence
Then TMNT = Violence

There are ceryain rules to waht can be aired at what time. On that slot, they couldn't add more violence. Anyway, I don't think the show really needs it, It's fine as it is.

*Duke* · 03-28-2003, 02:36 PM

Yeah that may be true but you didn't see the violent war coverage they showed during the time slot for the repeat of episode 6.

**Karpo_007** · 03-28-2003, 02:40 PM

That seems to be the thing with TV. They can show war and other violent things that really happen, but they can't do the same with the cartoons. I still think it's stupid to show war report instead of cartoons...

Shellfox · 03-28-2003, 04:12 PM

They show war updates during the Fox Box line up because the people in charge believe that perents watch these shows with their kids (mine never did on sat.), thus they see inturuping the line up as a duty to inform the pernets of a change in the war, despite the fact that you can see the same coverage on several other network channels or cable.

Jason · 03-28-2003, 04:55 PM

Well I've only seen the first few seasons of original cartoon and The Next mutation both of which relatively tame and I can't really comment on the latest show but their was an almost identical debate to this on a Power Rangers board I visit.....

Basically the people were saying that the show would be better if they killed people since it would make it more realistic.
Back in MMPR no one was hurt too much and Saban stuck so much camp comedy into it that it was difficult to take seriously. A lot of the old school fans liked this setup.

In Power Ranger Lost Galaxy - Time Force they made the series more bloody (i.e the rangers are bruised and bleed when attacked). Did this make any real 'improvement' to the show ? NO.

In last years series Power Rangers Wild Force they went all the way and had a plot where the red rangers parent were shown to be killed by the main villain.
There was a huge debate at to whether or not they would come back to life somehow.
The pro killing fans argued that by staying dead it would make the show more mature and realistic, the rest of the fans (including myself) argued that it was a fantasy show and that you don't "need" killing to make a better show.
Even on shows like Buffy, Star Trek, Xena etc. characters have been killed only to reappear later on. It doesn't make the show worse or childish for doing that, if anything it improves the plotline.

Anyway at the end of the series the Red Rangers parent stayed dead and some pro killing fans were glad that Disney made the show more mature. However most fans found the final episodes to be a huge disappointment. In no way did the killing make the show 'better'.

Ninja Turtles was a fun show to watch when I was a kid and that's what I loved about it. If Shredder went round stabbing people some older fans might think it was cool but it wouldn't really add anything to the show. You can still make a show mature without the need for constant killing. If a character in Ninja Turtles was killed off and it was of major significance to the plot then it might work but constant bloody violence for the sake of it ? - No thanks.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 03-29-2003, 12:06 AM

I agree, that violence is only good if important to the plot. I think they should keep the current new show "pure" for the kids and release a darker word-for-word-mirage (all red masks baby!

) Animated video series to be sold at comic shops. Since most comic shops sell anime movies (like Akira) and other mature animated movies (like Heavy Metal) it would be a great place for a TMNT Original Video series!

Oh and cartoon fan, I agree that this war is stupid (He's just attacking Iraq for the oil wells), but don't take it out on us. You can express a dislike for violence without putting us down.

But I understand you're stressed out because you're worried about you're friends, and it's good to worry about them. I know what it's like to worry about someone and, I wish more people cared more about those close to them the way you do.
A kind heart is a great strength
Disrespect for the opinions of others is a great weekness
You certainly have the first one

, just ditch the second one. OK, man?
Sorry for the lecture BTW

Here's an idea, start a topic in Gen Dis for those worried about their friends in the war.

**Karpo_007** · 03-29-2003, 05:46 AM

Thast exampl isn't good. The TMNT was originally a mature comic book. If ninjas attack you with blade weapons, there isn't really any other way. Altough the cartoons always found a way around that.

But the TMNT are not killing foot in the cartoon, It seems thast Only character that has is Shredder. Of course we don't know what will happen to him...

beaker · 03-29-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U2WaTCHer

did u guys ever wish mabie sometimes or something there would be more violence or something in tmnt to sorta make it cooler

How does that make it 'cooler'? Did ya see todays TMNT? Casey wacking a guy on the skull with a bat isnt violent enough?

If ya want a more harder edge look to the upcoming Dreamwave comic.

However, those who want to stand behind a sterile 'safe and clean' goofy ass TMNT can...I think the new show is a great balance myself.

Why does it have to be all out ultra violence or goofy crap?
Balance people, balance!

**Karpo_007** · 03-29-2003, 02:11 PM

You really think the dreamwave will be that violent? I hope it would even go to same realism as Mirage, But I fear it will be just a second archie series. And because they say it's heavily based on the cartoon, this seems more than likely.

Now if you want to see violent and realistic TMNT, read Mirage. In issue 55, [I read last night] We can see fight betwen Raphael and Elite foot ending Raph impaling the guy with his sai. I really doubt we will be seeing violence like this in the dreameave, of course I have heard it's not present in current Mirage either.

Shellfox · 03-29-2003, 02:25 PM

Well considering we see organic creatures (both human and alien) die at the hands of the TFs in the DW comics the odds are good that the TMNT will kill, how much is a diffrent question

**Karpo_007** · 03-29-2003, 02:29 PM

Does that happen in the Armada book? Thats the closest we can compare it with, as they are both based on a cartoon show.

Peanut · 03-29-2003, 04:37 PM

I just personally think anything involving the Ninja Turtles (with the exception of TNM) is just great. Old cartoon. New cartoon. Movies. Comics, Archie and Mirage. I love it all. BTW U2WaTCHer could you PLEASE attempt to use some sort of punctuation or at least proper spelling of simple words. Your posts give me a headache.

**Karpo_007** · 03-29-2003, 05:27 PM

Yes, the TMNT is a franchise with a lot of potential. The TNM is the only Bad TMNT thing I know of. Or maybe COOTS and the christmas specials fall in to smae cathegory.

I have no doubt that the dreamwave comic will be good, but I isn't going to be Mirage. But then again, I have heard that the new Mirage does not live up to the old one either.

*That Matt Guy* · 03-29-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Yes, the TMNT is a franchise with a lot of potential. The TNM is the only Bad TMNT thing I know of. Or maybe COOTS and the christmas specials fall in to smae cathegory.

How can you say that about COOTS? It's a classic!

Shellfox · 03-29-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Does that happen in the Armada book? Thats the closest we can compare it with, as they are both based on a cartoon show.

G1 is a cartoon to Karpo, even if the exact TF universe is in question, but it happens in both G1 and Armada, we see G1 megs reach out and kill a human with his bare hand, as well as possibly killing several others by covering them in a "liquid metal" (I don't know what it was off the top of my head) and in Armada we see megs step on one of the aliens, man half the guy was under megs foot and the other half wasn't all in panel (I don't follow much of Armada sorry)

So theres a good chance DW will have in panel death, which is general important to the plot (yes all the deaths were in some form important to the story)

**Karpo_007** · 03-29-2003, 06:18 PM

Well then it has potential to become more than a second archie series. IF it continues beyond that 5 issues, that is.

I hope it would become a regular comic series, Two ongoing TMNT series worked once, why not again?

Shellfox · 03-29-2003, 06:37 PM

Still most of the killing is done by the machines, so I'm not sure what their stance on organic killing organic is.

As long as is helps the plot I'm all for it, but if someone goes in and kills 2 dozen people for no reason other than it looks good, forget it.

**Karpo_007** · 03-29-2003, 08:30 PM

If it's going to be realistic like Mirage, when ninjas attack you with deadly weapons, there is not much of a choice but to run away or fight. But As I have said the cartoons do find a way around that.

03-29-2003, 12:06 AM	#48
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	I agree, that violence is only good if important to the plot. I think they should keep the current new show "pure" for the kids and release a darker word-for-word-mirage (all red masks baby! ) Animated video series to be sold at comic shops. Since most comic shops sell anime movies (like Akira) and other mature animated movies (like Heavy Metal) it would be a great place for a TMNT Original Video series! Oh and cartoon fan, I agree that this war is stupid (He's just attacking Iraq for the oil wells), but don't take it out on us. You can express a dislike for violence without putting us down. But I understand you're stressed out because you're worried about you're friends, and it's good to worry about them. I know what it's like to worry about someone and, I wish more people cared more about those close to them the way you do. A kind heart is a great strength Disrespect for the opinions of others is a great weekness You certainly have the first one , just ditch the second one. OK, man? Sorry for the lecture BTW Here's an idea, start a topic in Gen Dis for those worried about their friends in the war. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

03-28-2003, 02:36 PM	#44
Duke Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,913	Yeah that may be true but you didn't see the violent war coverage they showed during the time slot for the repeat of episode 6.

03-28-2003, 02:40 PM	#45
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	That seems to be the thing with TV. They can show war and other violent things that really happen, but they can't do the same with the cartoons. I still think it's stupid to show war report instead of cartoons...

03-28-2003, 04:12 PM	#46
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	They show war updates during the Fox Box line up because the people in charge believe that perents watch these shows with their kids (mine never did on sat.), thus they see inturuping the line up as a duty to inform the pernets of a change in the war, despite the fact that you can see the same coverage on several other network channels or cable.

03-28-2003, 04:55 PM	#47
Jason Foot Soldier Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 184	Well I've only seen the first few seasons of original cartoon and The Next mutation both of which relatively tame and I can't really comment on the latest show but their was an almost identical debate to this on a Power Rangers board I visit..... Basically the people were saying that the show would be better if they killed people since it would make it more realistic. Back in MMPR no one was hurt too much and Saban stuck so much camp comedy into it that it was difficult to take seriously. A lot of the old school fans liked this setup. In Power Ranger Lost Galaxy - Time Force they made the series more bloody (i.e the rangers are bruised and bleed when attacked). Did this make any real 'improvement' to the show ? NO. In last years series Power Rangers Wild Force they went all the way and had a plot where the red rangers parent were shown to be killed by the main villain. There was a huge debate at to whether or not they would come back to life somehow. The pro killing fans argued that by staying dead it would make the show more mature and realistic, the rest of the fans (including myself) argued that it was a fantasy show and that you don't "need" killing to make a better show. Even on shows like Buffy, Star Trek, Xena etc. characters have been killed only to reappear later on. It doesn't make the show worse or childish for doing that, if anything it improves the plotline. Anyway at the end of the series the Red Rangers parent stayed dead and some pro killing fans were glad that Disney made the show more mature. However most fans found the final episodes to be a huge disappointment. In no way did the killing make the show 'better'. Ninja Turtles was a fun show to watch when I was a kid and that's what I loved about it. If Shredder went round stabbing people some older fans might think it was cool but it wouldn't really add anything to the show. You can still make a show mature without the need for constant killing. If a character in Ninja Turtles was killed off and it was of major significance to the plot then it might work but constant bloody violence for the sake of it ? - No thanks.

03-29-2003, 05:46 AM	#49
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Thast exampl isn't good. The TMNT was originally a mature comic book. If ninjas attack you with blade weapons, there isn't really any other way. Altough the cartoons always found a way around that. But the TMNT are not killing foot in the cartoon, It seems thast Only character that has is Shredder. Of course we don't know what will happen to him...

03-29-2003, 02:11 PM	#51
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	You really think the dreamwave will be that violent? I hope it would even go to same realism as Mirage, But I fear it will be just a second archie series. And because they say it's heavily based on the cartoon, this seems more than likely. Now if you want to see violent and realistic TMNT, read Mirage. In issue 55, [I read last night] We can see fight betwen Raphael and Elite foot ending Raph impaling the guy with his sai. I really doubt we will be seeing violence like this in the dreameave, of course I have heard it's not present in current Mirage either.

03-29-2003, 02:25 PM	#52
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	Well considering we see organic creatures (both human and alien) die at the hands of the TFs in the DW comics the odds are good that the TMNT will kill, how much is a diffrent question

03-29-2003, 02:29 PM	#53
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Does that happen in the Armada book? Thats the closest we can compare it with, as they are both based on a cartoon show.

03-29-2003, 04:37 PM	#54
Peanut Second Gear Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The New World Posts: 15,422	I just personally think anything involving the Ninja Turtles (with the exception of TNM) is just great. Old cartoon. New cartoon. Movies. Comics, Archie and Mirage. I love it all. BTW U2WaTCHer could you PLEASE attempt to use some sort of punctuation or at least proper spelling of simple words. Your posts give me a headache.

03-29-2003, 05:27 PM	#55
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Yes, the TMNT is a franchise with a lot of potential. The TNM is the only Bad TMNT thing I know of. Or maybe COOTS and the christmas specials fall in to smae cathegory. I have no doubt that the dreamwave comic will be good, but I isn't going to be Mirage. But then again, I have heard that the new Mirage does not live up to the old one either.

03-29-2003, 06:18 PM	#58
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Well then it has potential to become more than a second archie series. IF it continues beyond that 5 issues, that is. I hope it would become a regular comic series, Two ongoing TMNT series worked once, why not again?

03-29-2003, 06:37 PM	#59
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	Still most of the killing is done by the machines, so I'm not sure what their stance on organic killing organic is. As long as is helps the plot I'm all for it, but if someone goes in and kills 2 dozen people for no reason other than it looks good, forget it.

03-29-2003, 08:30 PM	#60
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	If it's going to be realistic like Mirage, when ninjas attack you with deadly weapons, there is not much of a choice but to run away or fight. But As I have said the cartoons do find a way around that.