Early Apologies - Page 3

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 08:28 PM

Yeah, I didn't figure you meant me, cuz like I said, I personally think a lot of what you've said makes sense. I was just saying that it really is kinda funny that one of the people that really doesn't mind debating these kinds of issues is one of the people that agrees with you, that's all.

CookSux · 04-19-2003, 09:52 PM

Hmm how about instead of a debate we post valid sound points on your case. Since you are leaning towards evolution here's what I, and many other scientists, have discovered.

It is true that there is no proof of macroevolution. Fossil records and such aren't enough, and it's merely just a bias from scientists who believe that it is from so called evolution. You all should realize that Darwin himself turned Christian in his later days, and debunked his whole theory on evolution. Sure it's true that microevolution happens, such as bacteria growing resistant to antibiotics, but it's not enough for such drastic changes in macroevolution. If we consider an arm to be a machine and say that it came from a fin, it's ridiculous. An arm is made up of many parts working in a complex system. Evolution requires things to progress in a step by step progression over many years. So basically it'd start off as a tiny nub and etc. If we put in natural selection into play, what the heck kind of advantage is it in the grand scheme of things? So it'd be nearly impossible for that to happen... plus it'd take an incredibly long time. Not only this, but evolutionists don't have solid facts when it comes to mapping out species. Either way, I just think that most of you don't know what you're talking about and regurgitating what they heard in their science class. Plus let's add in the whole Big Bang Theory. Sure it's possible that two nuclear atoms hurtling through space randomly smacked each other from out of no where, but it doesn't just happen. The energy it would require is immeasurable and almost impossible for it to happen without some supernatural hand in the big picture. The creation of life itself, saying that we came from single celled organisms? That's ludicrous. First of all, if we're all talking about things being random... there are 55 unique codes of RNA for something to be created. For life to first start, the organism must be able to replicate itself. So this creature must have two sets of these "randomly" crated genes. Scientists have figured, that if such a random occurance happened, the total amount of RNA is larger then the size of the Earth. I'm a little skeptical when people say that things just happened out of no where, especially with these facts. It all has to do with information. For example, if you put a group of monkies in front of a computer and left them there for many years, sure it's possible that somewhere in that garbled mess would be Shakespeare's Hamlet. But just because it's there doesn't mean that the monkey meant anything. Shakespeare wrote Hamlet with a meaning and could also bust out many plays in a single year. Just because random codes of genetic makeup are being pumped out doesn't mean that they stand for anything. BTW scientists have newly discovered that our genetic makeup is more similar to whales than monkies. Does that mean we come from whales? Besides, let's say that Leonardo DaVinci made two paintings. They're both similar because they both came from the same artist. So monkies resemble human beings... they're just another piece of art if you ask me.

**GK Punk** · 04-19-2003, 10:04 PM

Just want to point out to everyone, Krang has already said he plans to lock all religious conversations now days, so just becareful in the direction your debate goes... and Please don't tell anyone what not to believe in

CookSux · 04-19-2003, 10:19 PM

Yeah, but I'm willing to get a strike as long as I get my point across. Besides, I'm not really debating the whole Evolution vs Creationism thing for the sake of being a Christian. I'm just pointing scientific findings out as they are in the real world.

**GK Punk** · 04-19-2003, 10:19 PM

Well aslong as you know what could happen

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 10:24 PM

Cook, I like ya, really, I just don't wanna see anymore arguments. That's my only problem.

And I'm gonna speak my p.o.v. on the entire thing, trying hard to keep religion out of it as much as possible.

I, myself, am an agnostic. I don't so much have strict beliefs as I do ideas. I believe God may exist, but not to the point where I would ever feel right telling someone that their ideas or beliefs is wrong.

For example, some of Tokka's arguments make sense to me, therefore I lean towards them a little bit more. But I'm not gonna stand up and say they're right, just like I'm not gonna stand up and say you or anyone else is.

I can not and would never say anyone else is right or wrong about stuff like that, for one reason: If there is a God, I'm pretty sure I'm not Him, and therefore I do not know everything (as hard as it may be to believe).

The whole debate is arrogant, because it operates under the assumption that the speaker, no matter WHAT they believe, knows the intricate details of life, creation, and everything else. And we DON'T. Nobody does.

There is no right or wrong. There's you, there's me, there's what you believe and there's what I believe. Somewhere along the way, we believe some of the same things. Somewhere else along the way, our points of view differ.

There's no right or wrong beliefs, just different. I wish people would understand that more often, because then humankind in general would be a lot more tolerant, and there would be a lot less conflict in the world.

And that's as serious as I'm gonna get for one weekend. Enjoy it while it lasts.

CookSux · 04-19-2003, 10:30 PM

Regardless of how bad it is for spitting my mouth, I tend to speak my mind very easily. I know that it isn't good to rebuke people for believing in their own thing. Besides, I'm not forcing anyone to believe anything. It's just that when it comes down the to cold hard facts, I'm very stubborn about it. Oh well, I'll probably get my 1 and only warning, but I say that it's worth it... it's not like that's set in stone.

**Machias Banshee** · 04-19-2003, 10:34 PM

*shakes head, whimpering*

why...why....why.....

look, guys...we had this mess happen last night...I didnt get much sleep cuz of it....i had lil sleep cuz i got up for the cartoon....its that special time.....this is not a good time to start up this stuff....

Look, no matter what youre beliefs, they are YOURS. Do not try and get "points across" or "explain your reasonings"....

please, get off the subject of macroevolution, creation vs. evolution, all that... I'm geting cramped from locking so many threads in such a short time....

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 10:35 PM

I'unno, I dont think a warning is due really. You havent resorted to knocking anyone personally, that I've seen, and that's when these things get outta hand. Like BIC's thread yesterday was doomed from the first post when he made a crack about heretic.

It's not so much the idea of debates about sensitive issues, it's that when it comes to stuff like religion nobody ever wants to admit that they might be wrong about anything so oftentimes personal attacks get thrown in because people run out of ways to actually support their argument. That's when threads get locked and people get warnings.

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 10:38 PM

((raises eyebrow at Machias...))

"That special time"...? "Cramps"?

Uh oh... look out, everyone, we got a menstruating reptile on our hands! We DEFINITELY don't wanna make her mad!

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 10:45 PM

Hey, c'mon, that was clever! None of YOU thought of it!

**Machias Banshee** · 04-19-2003, 10:47 PM

*Shmucks Leo upside the head with her army boot*

CookSux · 04-19-2003, 10:48 PM

I don't want to think about that.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-19-2003, 10:52 PM

I think Leo has the right idea.
But, for the record belief in evolution does not make someone an athiest!
For all any of us knows, evolution my be a system for God(or gods) to improve on their work.
Personally I go with the Zenist philosophy on the subject:
It matters not why or how things are, but that they are!

BTW Don't let this get out of hand or "Brother Tetsu" will need to make another sermon!

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-19-2003, 10:54 PM

At least I won't pick on you Machi,
I'm a guy with a good attitude about menstration.

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 10:54 PM

HALLELUJAH, Brother Tetsu!

...which reminds me... did you rinse out the collection plate since last night?

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-19-2003, 10:55 PM

Of course!

CookSux · 04-19-2003, 10:56 PM

Actually people are either creationists, or naturalist/materialist when it comes to the start of life. But on your comment about evolution being a system for God (or gods) improving their work... wouldn't that just make God imperfect from the start? And if God (or gods) was imperfect, then what's the point in believing in him?

**Machias Banshee** · 04-19-2003, 10:56 PM

oh god...gutter mind... ew ew ew ew ew ew ewwwwwww!!!

~~Leo656~~ · 04-19-2003, 11:00 PM

Maybe God would use evolution as a tool, I'unno. Maybe He prefers not to get involved directly. I know that if I had a job like his I'd try not to get my hands dirty too much either. Too much work. What good is being omnipotent if you never have time to enjoy it?

Besides, if God actually did get his hands dirty He woulda smacked me around on general principle by now for being such a jackass. Not to mention what I did to Brother Tetsu's collection plate.

04-19-2003, 09:52 PM	#42
CookSux Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sparta Posts: 928	Hmm how about instead of a debate we post valid sound points on your case. Since you are leaning towards evolution here's what I, and many other scientists, have discovered. It is true that there is no proof of macroevolution. Fossil records and such aren't enough, and it's merely just a bias from scientists who believe that it is from so called evolution. You all should realize that Darwin himself turned Christian in his later days, and debunked his whole theory on evolution. Sure it's true that microevolution happens, such as bacteria growing resistant to antibiotics, but it's not enough for such drastic changes in macroevolution. If we consider an arm to be a machine and say that it came from a fin, it's ridiculous. An arm is made up of many parts working in a complex system. Evolution requires things to progress in a step by step progression over many years. So basically it'd start off as a tiny nub and etc. If we put in natural selection into play, what the heck kind of advantage is it in the grand scheme of things? So it'd be nearly impossible for that to happen... plus it'd take an incredibly long time. Not only this, but evolutionists don't have solid facts when it comes to mapping out species. Either way, I just think that most of you don't know what you're talking about and regurgitating what they heard in their science class. Plus let's add in the whole Big Bang Theory. Sure it's possible that two nuclear atoms hurtling through space randomly smacked each other from out of no where, but it doesn't just happen. The energy it would require is immeasurable and almost impossible for it to happen without some supernatural hand in the big picture. The creation of life itself, saying that we came from single celled organisms? That's ludicrous. First of all, if we're all talking about things being random... there are 55 unique codes of RNA for something to be created. For life to first start, the organism must be able to replicate itself. So this creature must have two sets of these "randomly" crated genes. Scientists have figured, that if such a random occurance happened, the total amount of RNA is larger then the size of the Earth. I'm a little skeptical when people say that things just happened out of no where, especially with these facts. It all has to do with information. For example, if you put a group of monkies in front of a computer and left them there for many years, sure it's possible that somewhere in that garbled mess would be Shakespeare's Hamlet. But just because it's there doesn't mean that the monkey meant anything. Shakespeare wrote Hamlet with a meaning and could also bust out many plays in a single year. Just because random codes of genetic makeup are being pumped out doesn't mean that they stand for anything. BTW scientists have newly discovered that our genetic makeup is more similar to whales than monkies. Does that mean we come from whales? Besides, let's say that Leonardo DaVinci made two paintings. They're both similar because they both came from the same artist. So monkies resemble human beings... they're just another piece of art if you ask me. __________________ http://http://cooksux.deviantart.com/ http://www.xanga.com/cooksux http://www.myspace.com/cooksux

04-19-2003, 10:19 PM	#44
CookSux Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sparta Posts: 928	Yeah, but I'm willing to get a strike as long as I get my point across. Besides, I'm not really debating the whole Evolution vs Creationism thing for the sake of being a Christian. I'm just pointing scientific findings out as they are in the real world. __________________ http://http://cooksux.deviantart.com/ http://www.xanga.com/cooksux http://www.myspace.com/cooksux

04-19-2003, 10:30 PM	#47
CookSux Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sparta Posts: 928	Regardless of how bad it is for spitting my mouth, I tend to speak my mind very easily. I know that it isn't good to rebuke people for believing in their own thing. Besides, I'm not forcing anyone to believe anything. It's just that when it comes down the to cold hard facts, I'm very stubborn about it. Oh well, I'll probably get my 1 and only warning, but I say that it's worth it... it's not like that's set in stone. __________________ http://http://cooksux.deviantart.com/ http://www.xanga.com/cooksux http://www.myspace.com/cooksux

04-19-2003, 10:48 PM	#53
CookSux Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sparta Posts: 928	I don't want to think about that. __________________ http://http://cooksux.deviantart.com/ http://www.xanga.com/cooksux http://www.myspace.com/cooksux

04-19-2003, 10:52 PM	#54
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	I think Leo has the right idea. But, for the record belief in evolution does not make someone an athiest! For all any of us knows, evolution my be a system for God(or gods) to improve on their work. Personally I go with the Zenist philosophy on the subject: It matters not why or how things are, but that they are! BTW Don't let this get out of hand or "Brother Tetsu" will need to make another sermon! __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

04-19-2003, 08:28 PM	#41
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Yeah, I didn't figure you meant me, cuz like I said, I personally think a lot of what you've said makes sense. I was just saying that it really is kinda funny that one of the people that really doesn't mind debating these kinds of issues is one of the people that agrees with you, that's all.

04-19-2003, 10:04 PM	#43
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	Just want to point out to everyone, Krang has already said he plans to lock all religious conversations now days, so just becareful in the direction your debate goes... and Please don't tell anyone what not to believe in

04-19-2003, 10:24 PM	#46
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Cook, I like ya, really, I just don't wanna see anymore arguments. That's my only problem. And I'm gonna speak my p.o.v. on the entire thing, trying hard to keep religion out of it as much as possible. I, myself, am an agnostic. I don't so much have strict beliefs as I do ideas. I believe God may exist, but not to the point where I would ever feel right telling someone that their ideas or beliefs is wrong. For example, some of Tokka's arguments make sense to me, therefore I lean towards them a little bit more. But I'm not gonna stand up and say they're right, just like I'm not gonna stand up and say you or anyone else is. I can not and would never say anyone else is right or wrong about stuff like that, for one reason: If there is a God, I'm pretty sure I'm not Him, and therefore I do not know everything (as hard as it may be to believe). The whole debate is arrogant, because it operates under the assumption that the speaker, no matter WHAT they believe, knows the intricate details of life, creation, and everything else. And we DON'T. Nobody does. There is no right or wrong. There's you, there's me, there's what you believe and there's what I believe. Somewhere along the way, we believe some of the same things. Somewhere else along the way, our points of view differ. There's no right or wrong beliefs, just different. I wish people would understand that more often, because then humankind in general would be a lot more tolerant, and there would be a lot less conflict in the world. And that's as serious as I'm gonna get for one weekend. Enjoy it while it lasts.

04-19-2003, 10:34 PM	#48
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	shakes head, whimpering why...why....why..... look, guys...we had this mess happen last night...I didnt get much sleep cuz of it....i had lil sleep cuz i got up for the cartoon....its that special time.....this is not a good time to start up this stuff.... Look, no matter what youre beliefs, they are YOURS. Do not try and get "points across" or "explain your reasonings".... please, get off the subject of macroevolution, creation vs. evolution, all that... I'm geting cramped from locking so many threads in such a short time....

04-19-2003, 10:35 PM	#49
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I'unno, I dont think a warning is due really. You havent resorted to knocking anyone personally, that I've seen, and that's when these things get outta hand. Like BIC's thread yesterday was doomed from the first post when he made a crack about heretic. It's not so much the idea of debates about sensitive issues, it's that when it comes to stuff like religion nobody ever wants to admit that they might be wrong about anything so oftentimes personal attacks get thrown in because people run out of ways to actually support their argument. That's when threads get locked and people get warnings.

04-19-2003, 10:38 PM	#50
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	((raises eyebrow at Machias...)) "That special time"...? "Cramps"? Uh oh... look out, everyone, we got a menstruating reptile on our hands! We DEFINITELY don't wanna make her mad!

04-19-2003, 10:45 PM	#51
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Hey, c'mon, that was clever! None of YOU thought of it!

04-19-2003, 10:47 PM	#52
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Shmucks Leo upside the head with her army boot

04-19-2003, 10:54 PM	#55
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	At least I won't pick on you Machi, I'm a guy with a good attitude about menstration. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

04-19-2003, 10:55 PM	#57
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	Of course! __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

04-19-2003, 10:56 PM	#58
CookSux Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sparta Posts: 928	Actually people are either creationists, or naturalist/materialist when it comes to the start of life. But on your comment about evolution being a system for God (or gods) improving their work... wouldn't that just make God imperfect from the start? And if God (or gods) was imperfect, then what's the point in believing in him? __________________ http://http://cooksux.deviantart.com/ http://www.xanga.com/cooksux http://www.myspace.com/cooksux

04-19-2003, 11:00 PM	#60
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Maybe God would use evolution as a tool, I'unno. Maybe He prefers not to get involved directly. I know that if I had a job like his I'd try not to get my hands dirty too much either. Too much work. What good is being omnipotent if you never have time to enjoy it? Besides, if God actually did get his hands dirty He woulda smacked me around on general principle by now for being such a jackass. Not to mention what I did to Brother Tetsu's collection plate.