What is it that this new series has...

[Coola Yagami]

I also meant normal fans, not just Technodromers. Casuals and random kids wouldn't know there was a cancelled season 5 and just watch Fast Forward as is.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Are you joking? When it was airing for the first time it was critically acclaimed and put on the same level as the DC cartoons that were airing at the time.

proof? not trying (too hard) to bust your chops, but you make a lot of these really matter of fact, sometimes sweeping statements. i just feel i gotta dig a lil deeper to make sure its not just your opinion being posed as fact...

Originally Posted by The Stryker

I think other than not airing at the same time they're just two completely different shows.

Adventure Time is hitting on a bunch of levels right now. They got kids, teens, parents and the internet/hipster crowd. It's kind of amazing. We'll have to see if Turtles can catch up in terms of sheer awareness and popularity but they aren't in competition

tru dat.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

i dont have cable...do adventure time and ninja turtles air in the same time-slot?

I didn't mean time slot.

Adventure Time is a VERY POPULAR cartoon right now. It snags a huge demographic (kids and their parents and everyone else in between).

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

I didn't mean time slot.

Adventure Time is a VERY POPULAR cartoon right now. It snags a huge demographic (kids and their parents and everyone else in between).

oic.

but i think stryker hit the nail right on the head. they really are two totally different styles of show.

[NinjaMan]

The 2003 toon was good but no where near the level of the DC animated shows. Those cartoons were special. No cartoons of the 2000s compare to them.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

proof? not trying (too hard) to bust your chops, but you make a lot of these really matter of fact, sometimes sweeping statements. i just feel i gotta dig a lil deeper to make sure its not just your opinion being posed as fact...

What proof do I need to give you aside from the fact that the majority of TMNT fans liked it?

I actually find this argument highly bizarre. The 4kids series is not some obscure unknown series you're making it out to be. It was on Saturday mornings for 7 years, it aired on reruns on Cartoon Network for at least 2 years, it had a huge toyline and videogames.

The only difference is it didn't air on Nick, so it didn't air on a channel kids watch as regularly.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What proof do I need to give you aside from the fact that the majority of TMNT fans liked it?

I actually find this argument highly bizarre. The 4kids series is not some obscure unknown series you're making it out to be. It was on Saturday mornings for 7 years, it aired on reruns on Cartoon Network for at least 2 years, it had a huge toyline and videogames.

The only difference is it didn't air on Nick, so it didn't air on a channel kids watch as regularly.

I think it's more of it being a hit with people OTHER than us Turtle fans. Remember, ratings were dropping when we were loving season 4.... and ratings shot up even though we hated Fast Forward.

It just kinda seems the 2K3 show was super-mega-awesome to US, I mean hey, this forum went apeshit when the series was released...... but the Nick version seems to be super-mega-awesome to EVERYONE ELSE and not just us. We have to remember, even if we liked or hated a TMNT related product, our views do not reflect or affect the rest of the 'real world' beyond this forum. Hell, we all could have downright HATED this new show, and it wouldn't have changed how big a hit it is to everyone else.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I think it's more of it being a hit with people OTHER than us Turtle fans. Remember, ratings were dropping when we were loving season 4.... and ratings shot up even though we hated Fast Forward.

It just kinda seems the 2K3 show was super-mega-awesome to US, I mean hey, this forum went apeshit when the series was released...... but the Nick version seems to be super-mega-awesome to EVERYONE ELSE and not just us. We have to remember, even if we liked or hated a TMNT related product, our views do not reflect or affect the rest of the 'real world' beyond this forum. Hell, we all could have downright HATED this new show, and it wouldn't have changed how big a hit it is to everyone else.

I guarantee you if the 4kids series aired on a popular kids network like Nick it would have been just as popular.

Just think of how rich Nick/Viacom is compared to 4kids. 4kids was an anime dubbing company best known for Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh...and then you compare them to Nick who has been around for 30 years.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What proof do I need to give you aside from the fact that the majority of TMNT fans liked it?

I actually find this argument highly bizarre. The 4kids series is not some obscure unknown series you're making it out to be. It was on Saturday mornings for 7 years, it aired on reruns on Cartoon Network for at least 2 years, it had a huge toyline and videogames.

The only difference is it didn't air on Nick, so it didn't air on a channel kids watch as regularly.

of course TMNT fans are going to like it. WE'RE TMNT FANS. that doesn't mean its absolutely loved by all...or even by all of the generation that grew up with it as their first exposure. also, being loved by TMNT fans doesn't automatically make it legendary or as good as any of the other franchises you mentioned.

as for it's obscurity...ummmm...it kinda is.

aside from the logical conclusion that it was hard to keep track of because it often changed time slots and channels...it's just not really a part of the grain of pop culture the way the first one was or the way its looking like the new show might become.

not that i'm someone who should be the basis for the argument, but the reason im just now catching up on the 2k3 series is because i could never really catch it and when i did...it seemed...meh. yes, i'm loving it now, but its because im taking the time and effort to appreciate it. at the time when i was a bit more casual, like all other non-hardcore fans, it just didnt catch my interest.

coola yagami summed it up very well, i think.

and by proof, i meant PROOF.

you said:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Are you joking? When it was airing for the first time it was critically acclaimed and put on the same level as the DC cartoons that were airing at the time.

where are the critical acclaims? what articles are you thinking of that shows it was universally loved and placed along side those other great toons. as i mentioned,

you make a lot of these really matter of fact, sometimes sweeping statements. i just feel i gotta dig a lil deeper to make sure its not just your opinion being posed as fact.

EDIT:

I guarantee you if the 4kids series aired on a popular kids network like Nick it would have been just as popular.

Just think of how rich Nick/Viacom is compared to 4kids. 4kids was an anime dubbing company best known for Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh...and then you compare them to Nick who has been around for 30 years.

you yourself are now saying it was done by an obscure company on an obscure network. :/

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

as for it's obscurity...ummmm...it kinda is.

How on earth is it obscure? Everyone KNOWS it exists. Nobody thinks the Nick cartoon is the first revival of the property since the 80's. Have you ever come across anywhere on the internet that's acting like the Nick show is the first cartoon revival of the property? Nobody is saying, "Hey the Turtles are coming back with a second cartoon on Nick!" because everyone already knows the 4kids series was the first revival.

People also know of the failed Next Mutation series, so I don't know what you're talking about.

aside from the logical conclusion that it was hard to keep track of because it often changed time slots and channels...it's just not really a part of the grain of pop culture the way the first one was or the way its looking like the new show might become.

Nothing ever becomes popular as what comes first. Its the same for any property. Look at Power Rangers and Pokemon, people remember the beginnings of the franchise far more than what they are now.

And I don't think you know how the 4kids series actually aired. It aired on Saturday mornings at 10am EST for 7 years on the same channel. Reruns went to Cartoon Network. It didn't constantly change times.

where are the critical acclaims? what articles are you thinking of that shows it was universally loved and placed along side those other great toons. as i mentioned,

Go online to whereever the 4kids TMNT series is discussed. Read the old review threads for the episodes posted back in 2003-2009 when the show originally aired. Its pretty easy to find with the search feature.

[Cure]

So basically you have no proof and are making stuff up.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Cure

So basically you have no proof and are making stuff up.

Are you actually being serious? Read any review threads for the 4kids series throughout the internet. There are also the old ratings for the 4kids series that if I remember correctly were the highest rated cartoon on its Saturday morning block at the time.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

How on earth is it obscure? Everyone KNOWS it exists. Nobody thinks the Nick cartoon is the first revival of the property since the 80's. Have you ever come across anywhere on the internet that's acting like the Nick show is the first cartoon revival of the property? Nobody is saying, "Hey the Turtles are coming back with a second cartoon on Nick!" because everyone already knows the 4kids series was the first revival.

maybe they know it exists, but ask a "civilian" about any details and i doubt they'd be able to give any...maybe something along the lines of, "they looked sharper..." vague at best.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

People also know of the failed Next Mutation series, so I don't know what you're talking about.

and i don't know what you are.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Nothing ever becomes popular as what comes first. Its the same for any property. Look at Power Rangers and Pokemon, people remember the beginnings of the franchise far more than what they are now.

star trek the next gen is arguably more popular than the original and the star trek reboot is definately more popular than ANY of its predecessors. the dark knight trilogy vs the 80's-90's bat-films comes to mind also. and those are aimed at audiences that arent children. ask an actual child today if they'd prefer new super mario bros to the original. DCaU to Superfriends. THE NICK SHOW TO THE OT OR 2K3...

your arguments weak here.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

And I don't think you know how the 4kids series actually aired. It aired on Saturday mornings at 10am EST for 7 years on the same channel. Reruns went to Cartoon Network. It didn't constantly change times.

really? hahaha! you're honestly so arrogant in your opinions that you're going to conclude that i just didn't know when it was on. dude, the show was syndicated. it aired at different times in different parts of the country. in south texas it DIDNT air for 7 years at the same time on the same channel.

*facepalm*

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Go online to whereever the 4kids TMNT series is discussed. Read the old review threads for the episodes posted back in 2003-2009 when the show originally aired. Its pretty easy to find with the search feature.

AGAIN...of course its going to be loved by turtle fans. AGAIN...

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

that doesn't mean its absolutely loved by all...or even by all of the generation that grew up with it as their first exposure. also, being loved by TMNT fans doesn't automatically make it legendary or as good as any of the other franchises you mentioned.

you've got fan-goggles on, bruh. yes its a great show to us turtle fans but if a casual was to ask me how it compared to Batman TAS or Justice League, i'd be honest and tell them while i love it as a fan, it doesn't hold a candle to those.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Are you actually being serious? Read any review threads for the 4kids series throughout the internet. There are also the old ratings for the 4kids series that if I remember correctly were the highest rated cartoon on its Saturday morning block at the time.

go find some and post em.

[shuriken]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Nothing ever becomes popular as what comes first. Its the same for any property. Look at Power Rangers and Pokemon, people remember the beginnings of the franchise far more than what they are now.

Not necessarily true, some reboots and revivals were more popular than what came before. Not always but sometimes. B:TAS wasn't the first Batman series or Cartoon but it has been considered the best by many for example.
And Power Rangers and Pokemon well the difference with that is they aren't rebooted so much as just a continuation of the same concept with different characters (Power Rangers at least). But whatevs
I personally really enjoy the Nick show. In terms of the 4kids show though, I feel that it took them a bit longer than the Nick show to really become comfortable in its own skin. It did try a a bit too hard to be the more bad-ass TMNT toon. A lot of times it worked, other times it comes off as being unintentionally funny or awkward. And as much as I enjoyed the cartoon, there are some terrible eps strewn about. Eventually I'd like to re-watch it for it's 10 year anniversary in its entirety, and see if i like it as much as I did when i was 14.
But franchises work in cycles and the TMNT have gone through a few in their 28 years of existence.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

maybe they know it exists, but ask a "civilian" about any details and i doubt they'd be able to give any...maybe something along the lines of, "they looked sharper..." vague at best.

You can say that FOR ANY SHOW. Most "casual" fans don't know anything that happened in the original cartoon either outside the basic premise. Who the hell can say off the top of their head what happened in 193 episodes of the original cartoon?

All people remember about it is the Turtles faced Shredder/Krang and the Technodrome in almost every episode. They can't give you episode to episode details either, so what are you talking about?

Can YOU even say what happened in most of the episodes of the OT off the top of your head? Of course not, there's 193 episodes and they all blur together.

and i don't know what you are.
star trek the next gen is arguably more popular than the original and the star trek reboot is definately more popular than ANY of its predecessors. the dark knight trilogy vs the 80's-90's bat-films comes to mind also. and those are aimed at audiences that arent children. ask an actual child today if they'd prefer new super mario bros to the original. DCaU to Superfriends. THE NICK SHOW TO THE OT OR 2K3...

You're talking about massively exposed properties. And the original Star Trek is still what's the "most remembered" due to its impact. Same reason the Star Wars prequel films didn't become more popular than the original trilogy. There are exceptions of course like you've said, but I'm sure you understand.

really? hahaha! you're honestly so arrogant in your opinions that you're going to conclude that i just didn't know when it was on. dude, the show was syndicated. it aired at different times in different parts of the country. in south texas it DIDNT air for 7 years at the same time on the same channel.

If you had the 4kids programming block it probably aired for its entire run. There's no way the series could have lasted close to a decade if it didn't air regularly in more than the east coast.

you've got fan-goggles on, bruh. yes its a great show to us turtle fans but if a casual was to ask me how it compared to Batman TAS or Justice League, i'd be honest and tell them while i love it as a fan, it doesn't hold a candle to those.

Well you're comparing it to great shows. I love the DCAU too, and I'll agree the characterisation and deep stories are above anything TMNT did. But then I'd say the same for the original toon and Nick show too, as entertaining as they are, they sure as hell don't have deep plots.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You can say that FOR ANY SHOW. Most "casual" fans don't know anything that happened in the original cartoon either outside the basic premise. Who the hell can say off the top of their head what happened in 193 episodes of the original cartoon?

All people remember about it is the Turtles faced Shredder/Krang and the Technodrome in almost every episode. They can't give you episode to episode details either, so what are you talking about?

Can YOU even say what happened in most of the episodes of the OT off the top of your head? Of course not, there's 193 episodes and they all blur together.

but when you place it among other ACTUALLY memorable shows (like the DCaU) its just reaching. granted, how memorable the DCaU shows are can just as easily be argued and we'd be stuck in an infinite stupidity loop...

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You're talking about massively exposed properties. And the original Star Trek is still what's the "most remembered" due to its impact. Same reason the Star Wars prequel films didn't become more popular than the original trilogy. There are exceptions of course like you've said, but I'm sure you understand.

oop! gotta call you on that. those prequels sucked because of the shallow banal stories and over produced visual effects. had they been good, who knows how popular (and well received) they woulda been. luckily in the next few years we'll get another chance at this with the star wars franchise. and yes the original star trek is remembered most...by adults. not kids...which was the point i was making.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If you had the 4kids programming block it probably aired for its entire run. There's no way the series could have lasted close to a decade if it didn't air regularly in more than the east coast.

sorry to pop your spit bubble castle there, but it didn't. and maybe it lasted despite that because the country (unfortunately) isn't just made up of south texas and the east coast.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Well you're comparing it to great shows. I love the DCAU too, and I'll agree the characterisation and deep stories are above anything TMNT did. But then I'd say the same for the original toon and Nick show too, as entertaining as they are, they sure as hell don't have deep plots.

actually, YOU compared it to the DCaU. but im glad you agree. heh.

[CyberCubed]

Well all I'm saying is people know the 4kids series exist, and most who have watched it enjoyed the majority of the series.

[Refractive Reflections]

Well, well, well.... lookie what I started.. LOL

I think I have to explain myself a bit though from my earlier comment, but I have to somewhat agree with this...

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

The 2003 toon was good but no where near the level of the DC animated shows. Those cartoons were special. No cartoons of the 2000s compare to them.

Now I was not bad mouthing the 2003 version or that it would eventually have its own unique tone, but its just very "off-putting" when any series (cartoon or any show) starts off comparing itself to another before it even established its own identity. When it started off, I was thinking "OKAY ALREADY. Dang! How long are you gonna keep telling us you're not the OT??"

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I guarantee you if the 4kids series aired on a popular kids network like Nick it would have been just as popular.

Just think of how rich Nick/Viacom is compared to 4kids. 4kids was an anime dubbing company best known for Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh...and then you compare them to Nick who has been around for 30 years.

As for it being MORE popular if it was on Nickelodeon...I doubt Nickelodeon would even bother with that dark toned 2K3 series with a 10 foot pole because the cable station is noted for FAR brighter-themed cartoons.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You can say that FOR ANY SHOW. Most "casual" fans don't know anything that happened in the original cartoon either outside the basic premise. Who the hell can say off the top of their head what happened in 193 episodes of the original cartoon?

All people remember about it is the Turtles faced Shredder/Krang and the Technodrome in almost every episode. They can't give you episode to episode details either, so what are you talking about?

Can YOU even say what happened in most of the episodes of the OT off the top of your head? Of course not, there's 193 episodes and they all blur together.

Hmmm....with this heated remark, your nostalgia/fandom/sentiment for the 2K3 over the OT is CLEARLY showing here. I thought we were focusing on exposure and appeal of any TMNT series to the general public, and not comparing plots of the OT show.

My ending statement on this: As for the "best cartoons of the 2000s"? I know this is a TMNT forum, but really? Are we saying "best" as in popularity or in terms of critics' opinions because those are two completely different things. If the 2K3 was REALLY as popular and captivating as you say, it would have been incorporated into pop culture more (similar to the reboots of Star Trek) rather than prompting the general public about TMNT and a majority of them referring to the late 80s/early 90s phenomena of the OT, movies, arcade, merchandise, etc. (People forget that the OT was even MORE at a disadvantage in its beginnings since its future was completely uncertain [unlike the assured successful TMNT franchise history that the 2K3 series could depend upon] and was a 5 episode story arc trial in syndication. Hindsight is 20/20, but foresight takes a greater vision.) I mean the OT was childish and silly beyond belief at times (like other cartoons), but it still was able to grab hold of the general adult public demographic (outside of the TMNT fandom) which I haven't seen with the 2K3 series.

And a thank you "Zodiac Brave" and "Coola Yagami", for giving some objectivity support into this discussion...

[tmntfannumerouno]

Honestly the fact that it was on Nick wasn't necessarily a good thing for me. The last toon I watched on Nick was Rocket Power and since then not much from them has peaked my interest. But it was the Turtles so I did end up watching and wasn't disappointed. I've been watching ever since.