The Nick TMNT Chronology Thread

[neatoman]

I would say literally none of the summer shorts would count as being part of this show. If anything, most of them seem like pilots for various potential reboots before they settled on Rise. Some of them can't actually be pilots for a reboot of course, it would be stupid to think something as haphazardly slapped together like Boulangerie was a serious attempt to pitch a new show, and the Team-Up shorts are numerous enough for me to think they're just some weird attempt to test some kind of loophole in regards to the FW rights. Though Don vs Raph, Take Time, Pizza Friday, Mecha and Strike Hard all seem like something you could easily build on.

It's true that (if you ignore the differences in art style and casting) some of these could fit into the continuity of the 2012 show, because there are aren't many big contradictions there. It's just that you also have to accept things like how the Kraang suddenly have a very different alien speech pattern from their established alien speech pattern, it just seems like whatever similarities are there (such as April being a teenager) are there because Nickelodeon might have preferred keeping a similar approach going forward.

As for Mecha specifically, I'm not sure I'd buy the idea that the ending of Carmageddon leads to high tech world. Literally just finding a lake to live by was the ending to that episode, not recovering lost technology or anything like that. And I'm pretty sure Mike already went completely over the edge there.

[ToTheNines]

Carmageddon was absolutely meant to be the end. I just think that anything could happen in a quarter century, and with the large mutant population and Cipes as Mikey, it’s the only summer short you could argue would maybe fit in the continuity.

I’m pretty sure Mutant Apocalypse was all out in the Midwest, for whatever reason. For all we know, there could have been an effort to rebuild NYC going on already.

I just think it’s worth noting on the timeline, especially since they gave us the actual year. It’s a little less bleak than the guys just living out their days in the oasis.

[ToTheNines]

Updated for Ciro’s latest short story in the 40th anniversary comic.


It’s exactly 5 years after “The Invasion”, so December 2018 by my count. Which is about a year and a half after season 5 (not counting Mutant Apocalypse obviously).

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Season 3: This is a new one I discovered. I think "Buried Secrets" should come before "A Foot too Big". This allows more time to pass for the Frogs to build their society and formulate their big plan. In turn, it allows the house getting trashed in "Foot too Big" to tie into the big clean up party at the begging of "The Croaking". Also, Donnie was still being kind of creepy towards April in "Buried Secrets", and I feel like "Foot too Big" was supposed to be a turning point for him starting to chill out.

I made a mistake here. The cleanup party was actually at the beginning of “Buried Secrets”, so I think it was meant to be a direct follow up to “A Foot Too Big”.

I still like “Buried Secrets” first because Donatello’s behavior is contradictory to the point of “A Foot Too Big”, but I might change it back anyway. I’ll have to give them both a thorough re-watch.

Any thoughts?

[ToTheNines]

I watched them both and there’s not enough there to warrant switching them. Don isn’t that weird towards April in Buried Secrets, just kinda protective. So I put them back in their original order.

I still don’t like Croaking being right after Buried Secrets, since they have such an intricate tree house and it feels like they have a lot of history, but I guess there’s just a decent time gap in between episodes. You could pad it out with In Dreams, but it’s also kind of unnecessary.

Also went ahead and added the year breakdown into the episode list, I think it looks better now.

[Heyowakka]

I need to do a rewatch sooner than later, I’ve never actually sat down and done a watch through of 2012, just caught the episodes on TV, so it’s been a while.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Well, you know me, I'll always advocate for a rewatch. This show is awesome, and watching it in a binge is much more rewarding than sequentially.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah it’s great. If y’all do a marathon any time soon, let me know what you think of my rearranged episode order of the first 8 episodes. I’ve never received any real feedback/pushback at all, but I think it flows way better.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Yeah it’s great. If y’all do a marathon any time soon, let me know what you think of my rearranged episode order of the first 8 episodes. I’ve never received any real feedback/pushback at all, but I think it flows way better.

I haven't really collected all my thoughts on this in one post, and I just rewatched everything in this cluster except for "Turtle Temper" yesterday, so I'm going to do a quick run down while they're all fresh. I still didn't notice any problems created by this order, only fixes.

New Friend, Old Enemy - I like this much better as the 3rd episode, instead of Turtle Temper. I feel like introducing the Foot ASAP makes sense for a new show, since they're entirely left out of the first 2.

I feel like Mikey's naiveté about being accepted by random humans makes more sense if this comes before Turtle Temper, since they had such a bad experience with Vic.

There's also Leo and Raph's interaction about "finally fighting people for a change". The only mutant Leo calls out is Snakeweed, so this still works as an immediate follow up to “Rise of the Turtles", and omitting Spiderbytez seems kind of weird otherwise.



Metalhead - I like this episode early as possible due to April setting up her webpage to collect information about The Kraang, and she has a tip on them in Turtle Temper. Another reason I like that one later.

There's also the whole plot about Donnie "just having a stick". Which he eventually makes a little more lethal by having a blade pop out and converting it to a naginata (which we don't see until the Baxter episode). So, I think it flows better if you imagine he makes this mod off-screen after Metalhead and then we see the results in the next one. Having the Baxter episode before this makes the naginata feature feel like a very odd omission.



I Think His Name is Baxter Stockman - Stays as episode 5, but I like it after Metalhead for the whole naginata thing. I also like it before Turtle Temper because the turtles are pretty cavalier about confronting a random human, which backfired on them majorly with Spiderbytez. I also like alternating Kraang-centric episodes if at all possible.



Turtle Temper - This one got moved the farthest, but I've pretty much explained why in all the previous descriptions. Even when it first aired, it just felt like it was too soon for this kind of episode. I also like it here because I feel like them getting caught on camera on a rooftop plays directly into how extra cautious they're being at the beginning of Never Say Xever (which I also moved lol).



Never Say Xever - Aforementioned Turtle Temper tie-in. As long as there is no t-phones or mention of April's training, there shouldn't be an issue with this coming before Monkey Brains.

The very end does tie directly into The Gauntlet, but that could still be a few days later and allow Monkey Brains to happen in between.



Monkey Brains - No reason being here other than grouping the previous two together.

[sdp]

I remember when the 2012 show came out there was a prequel story that told the story of the turtles, something that wasn't in Season 1 at least. I don't know why but I think it might've had a narration, it didn't go into details but it still expanded upon their origin. I wonder if that ever got contradicted. I think it was a small book, but I also seem to remember there was a narration or even animation related to it. Anyone remember what I'm talking about?

I'll look for a thread about it here since I found out about it from here basically. I hope it had a thread and wasn't some comment in some pre-release or season1 thread.

[ToTheNines]

Tales from the Turtle Lair interactive comic.

[sdp]

that was it, glad my vague, incomplete comment was enough for you!

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by sdp

that was it, glad my vague, incomplete comment was enough for you!

#autismawareness

I went ahead and added it to the timeline with a link. I had some beef with it back in the day and decided it was non-canon, but I’m sure it’s harmless enough. I’ll try to give it a watch this weekend and double check.

[ToTheNines]

Ok, I listened to it on the way to work. I suppose I considered it non-canon because Leo is already declared leader, which technically doesn't happen until "Rise of the Turtles".

Whatever, I'm leaving it in. It's fun.

Funniest line was from Splinter. "Do not 'come on' me, Raphael"... Pause!

[ToTheNines]

Does anyone consider that awful Wii game to be canon? I remember Ciro or Brandon saying it bridged the gap between seasons 1 and 2, but there’s basically no plot and I feel like there’s countless contradictions with “The Mutation Situation”.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Does anyone consider that awful Wii game to be canon? I remember Ciro or Brandon saying it bridged the gap between seasons 1 and 2, but there’s basically no plot and I feel like there’s countless contradictions with “The Mutation Situation”.

Well, I haven't played that game and I have yet to even bother looking up cutscenes, but I can already tell you that as a general rule with any TV show or movie series, you shouldn't really consider any tie-in media to be canon unless the show/series itself confirms it. It's like how the Dreamwave TMNT comic is clearly meant to be a supplement to the 2003 show and only makes sense if you have watched it, yet gives backstories to Casey and April that are completely contradicted by the show itself down the line, also that game in which Ch'rell was the Shredder before arriving on earth but that one I believe isn't really meant to be in continuity anyway.

When it comes to the 2012 show's own tie-ins, I wouldn't be too bothered even trying to fit them into continuity. That comic where Baxter turns people into robots is infamous for both still depicting him as a fly mutant but stating that Shredder has died, something that just can't happen in the show's continuity.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well, I haven't played that game and I have yet to even bother looking up cutscenes, but I can already tell you that as a general rule with any TV show or movie series, you shouldn't really consider any tie-in media to be canon unless the show/series itself confirms it. It's like how the Dreamwave TMNT comic is clearly meant to be a supplement to the 2003 show and only makes sense if you have watched it, yet gives backstories to Casey and April that are completely contradicted by the show itself down the line, also that game in which Ch'rell was the Shredder before arriving on earth but that one I believe isn't really meant to be in continuity anyway.

Yeah, that's my thinking. Some people on another forum are insisting that it's canon, but I don't see anything that actually ties it in. I'm leaving it out here.

Here are the cutscenes for the hell of it. I forgot how bad the audio was.

When it comes to the 2012 show's own tie-ins, I wouldn't be too bothered even trying to fit them into continuity. That comic where Baxter turns people into robots is infamous for both still depicting him as a fly mutant but stating that Shredder has died, something that just can't happen in the show's continuity.

RobotAnimals? Yeah, that series also featured Splinter and Rahzar, so it just doesn't work anyway.

My personal take on those comics is New Animated Adventures tried pretty hard to stay in continuity. I personally only included issues written by Kenny Byerly, since he was a writer on the show. Everything else was innocuous enough, but basically impossible to place and not worth worrying about as far as continuity goes.

Then with Amazing Adventures and everything after, they were still playing in the 2012 sandbox obviously, but they quit worrying about breaking continuity and just did whatever. They never got too wild, but they were certainly coloring outside of the lines a little more than NAA.

[sdp]

The new Scott Pilgrim game tie in prequel comic has this in the beginning and I love it:


Like neatoman said, any tie in material no matter how much they might say is "canon" isn't really canon even if the director/producer said it was because in the future no one is going to dig up through interviews to go see what's canon, they take into consideration the movies/show and that's it.
Not some obscure comic or video game that was "canon" since it was part of their marketing cycle and once that finished no one cares since it's not making any profit for the IP holder and is just creating restrictions in storytelling.

With that said, I also like to look at all the Expanded Universe stuff from shows/movies i'm watching and try to fit it in and making logical explanations for any retcons, continuity mistakes or contradictions it had or eventually had as new media showed up. I usually divide stuff into 3 categories:

1-No errors: Doesn't contradict anything, likely won't ever be but always a possibility
2-Small errors: Easy or logical explanations
3-Big errors: Requires convoluted explanations or gold medal in mental gymnastics to make it work

Originally Posted by neatoman

you shouldn't really consider any tie-in media to be canon unless the show/series itself confirms it.

Even if it confirmst it, the Special Editions of Star Wars included eferences to Shadow of the Empire, so "canon" and yet that isn't really considered canon anymore even if you have the outrider appearing in A New Hope.
They literally explained "The ship is canon since it appears in the movie, but the story that Dash Rendar had just left because he talked to Han Solo is not necessarily canon".

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Does anyone consider that awful Wii game to be canon?
Some people on another forum are insisting that it's canon, .

Autistic people in fandoms have really loud voices and they get obsessed with canon and word of god. I remember for years in the JP fandom they kept saying JP The Game was canon because the marketing material said it was despite obvious incongruencies, only after each Jurassic World movie made it explicitly noncanon by contradicting it directly over and over, did the fandom start to stop saying that.

Video Games are tough to place as well since they have even less input from the studios even if they're given brief notes on what they want them to be like when Rise of Sin Tzu introduced a new villain to the DCAU canon. The fact that games usually include the actual voice cast and have cutscenes you can view as an "episode" makes you want to include them as well. But yeah most stories end up being like all-stars villain attack so fans can fight against all the characters they love, but that causes inconsistenciesl.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

My personal take on those comics is New Animated Adventures tried pretty hard to stay in continuity. I personally only included issues written by Kenny Byerly, since he was a writer on the show. Everything else was innocuous enough, but basically impossible to place and not worth worrying about as far as continuity goes.

Then with Amazing Adventures and everything after, they were still playing in the 2012 sandbox obviously, but they quit worrying about breaking continuity and just did whatever. They never got too wild, but they were certainly coloring outside of the lines a little more than NAA.

The thing with animated comics it really depends on when they were made, sometimes the licensee's are very strict, sometimes they're looser. Rarely do studios ever give any input on what they're going to do and don't care to contradict anything they let the comic do. I used to be really geeky about this stuff.

Even those writers that take it very seriously have their stories end up becoming hard non-canon. Different comic series usually just end up being more of a "ignore the previous comics" Batman TAS has had at least 3 different animated comics, when the show aired, when JLU was airing, the recent one. It's similar for X-Men TAS and Spider-Man TAS also having comics during their run and ones after.



The really obscure sh-t is when you start to consider the Young Adult novels that no one in the fandom cares about. But those can have some oddly amazing character growth, background expansion that no one cares to revisit and basically impossible to find info of or scans online.

[ToTheNines]

@sdp yeah I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Speaking of the DCAU, one thing that is purely headcanon on my part (but I’m not going to bother putting on this list because an actual episode kinda contradicts it) is the Batman Adventures crossover.

It’s easy to place and I’d rather believe the 2012 turtles actually met Batman in late season 3 and just ignore the whole Wingnut and Screwloose episode.