New Star Wars Cartoon: Star Wars: Clone Wars

[InsaneZane]

Originally Posted by Nturtle

Except for the weird witchy 2 lightsaber lady, thats kind of weird...

I think that's a re-incarnated 'Kamari Vosa'... if anyone knows who I'm talkin about

BTW.. it is romored that Episode III will be subtitled.
"Circle of the Force"
lame, huh???

[Knuckles]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Well, I disagree. I dunno why. I just think people's expectations for the prequels were WAY too high. That can be expected, though, when there's a 20-year buildup for them.

Lucas even said the story and everything for I-III wasn't as strong as the "classic" trilogy, that's why he made those first. It seems like Episodes I and II are mostly the buildup for Episode III more than stand-alone movies, and I for one am fine with it. To each their own I guess.

Well said. I'm with you on that. Basically, the prequels get a lot of unnecessary criticism, and it's, (no offense to anyone here, just an observation based on my experience) sorta become the "cool" thing to do to criticize them. It's very easy to jump on the SW-hating bandwagon, and say Lucas ruined Star Wars, but what people seem to forget is that they're his movies, not theirs. He has every right to do what he wants with them, and his story is law in the Star Wars universe. That's why Boba Fett's previous character history had to be rewritten after Attack of the Clones for example, and written off as stories he orchestrated to hide his past. Heck, if Lucas decides to put tap dancing Jedi in Episode III, then so be it if that's his vision. His movies, his choice. Personally, if I had created a magnificent movie trilogy 20 years ago, and then returned to film the backstory trilogy years later, I'd be pretty offended if people criticized me for ruining my own story. His story, his choice. I'm really more disappointed with some of the expanded universe literature than the prequels, even though they're (rightfully) not official, as nothing that isn't explictly stated or shown in the movies, (or directly approved by Lucas himself) is not "official." The Yuuzhan Vong invasion stories that take place during the New Jedi Order spring to mind. But as far as the prequels go, they need to be cut some major slack. There's no way they could be the second coming that everyone was hoping for. They serve the purpose of explaining how and why the events that occur in Episodes IV-VI came to be. It's showing why this guy Anakin Skywalker was such a big deal, and how and why he made the transformation from good Jedi Knight to evil Darth Vader, dark lord of the Sith. It's showing what Obi-Wan Kenobi, the wise old Jedi who started Luke Skywalker on the path to Jedi Knighthood, and restoring the Jedi Order, was like in his youth, and just where he might have gone wrong with Anakin. It's showing the glory and extravagance of the Old Republic which transformed into the evil Galactic Empire, and how a corrupt and evil politician/Sith lord was able to become its Emperor. It's showing how powerful the legendary Jedi Knights really were, and why Yoda deserved to be called "Master." It's the prologue, and I'd say it's pretty darn good for a prologue.

[cqb101]

Originally Posted by Knuckles

Well said. I'm with you on that. Basically, the prequels get a lot of unnecessary criticism, and it's, (no offense to anyone here, just an observation based on my experience) sorta become the "cool" thing to do to criticize them. It's very easy to jump on the SW-hating bandwagon, and say Lucas ruined Star Wars, but what people seem to forget is that they're his movies, not theirs. He has every right to do what he wants with them, and his story is law in the Star Wars universe. That's why Boba Fett's previous character history had to be rewritten after Attack of the Clones for example, and written off as stories he orchestrated to hide his past. Heck, if Lucas decides to put tap dancing Jedi in Episode III, then so be it if that's his vision. His movies, his choice. Personally, if I had created a magnificent movie trilogy 20 years ago, and then returned to film the backstory trilogy years later, I'd be pretty offended if people criticized me for ruining my own story. His story, his choice. I'm really more disappointed with some of the expanded universe literature than the prequels, even though they're (rightfully) not official, as nothing that isn't explictly stated or shown in the movies, (or directly approved by Lucas himself) is not "official." The Yuuzhan Vong invasion stories that take place during the New Jedi Order spring to mind. But as far as the prequels go, they need to be cut some major slack. There's no way they could be the second coming that everyone was hoping for. They serve the purpose of explaining how and why the events that occur in Episodes IV-VI came to be. It's showing why this guy Anakin Skywalker was such a big deal, and how and why he made the transformation from good Jedi Knight to evil Darth Vader, dark lord of the Sith. It's showing what Obi-Wan Kenobi, the wise old Jedi who started Luke Skywalker on the path to Jedi Knighthood, and restoring the Jedi Order, was like in his youth, and just where he might have gone wrong with Anakin. It's showing the glory and extravagance of the Old Republic which transformed into the evil Galactic Empire, and how a corrupt and evil politician/Sith lord was able to become its Emperor. It's showing how powerful the legendary Jedi Knights really were, and why Yoda deserved to be called "Master." It's the prologue, and I'd say it's pretty darn good for a prologue.

Well said!

[Leo656]

I concur. My biggest problem with the prequels isn't the story, it's the fact that big bad Anakin Skywalker has been portrayed as a whiny punk who *I* could kick the crap out of. But that's more because of the fact that Hayden Christensen is a lousy actor. But ah well, actors aren't as good as they were 20 years ago and that, my friends, is fact. Lucas had a LOT more to work with when he cast the movies back then... even if Carrie Fischer was coked out of her head for most of it.

[Reznorite420]

*high fives Kunkles, cqb, and Leo*

At last, some people who realize that the only reason most people dissed the first 2 prequels was because they expected them to be like the original trilogy, when in fact they're slightly different universes.

Oh, and BTW, another reason Lucas made episodes 4, 5, and 6 first was because he didn't have the technology to make the prequels come to life at the time.

[Leo656]

Yeah that too. Forgot about that.

[ironhelix]

Originally Posted by Knuckles

Well said. I'm with you on that. Basically, the prequels get a lot of unnecessary criticism, and it's, (no offense to anyone here, just an observation based on my experience) sorta become the "cool" thing to do to criticize them. It's very easy to jump on the SW-hating bandwagon, and say Lucas ruined Star Wars, but what people seem to forget is that they're his movies, not theirs. He has every right to do what he wants with them, and his story is law in the Star Wars universe. That's why Boba Fett's previous character history had to be rewritten after Attack of the Clones for example, and written off as stories he orchestrated to hide his past. Heck, if Lucas decides to put tap dancing Jedi in Episode III, then so be it if that's his vision. His movies, his choice. Personally, if I had created a magnificent movie trilogy 20 years ago, and then returned to film the backstory trilogy years later, I'd be pretty offended if people criticized me for ruining my own story. His story, his choice. I'm really more disappointed with some of the expanded universe literature than the prequels, even though they're (rightfully) not official, as nothing that isn't explictly stated or shown in the movies, (or directly approved by Lucas himself) is not "official." The Yuuzhan Vong invasion stories that take place during the New Jedi Order spring to mind. But as far as the prequels go, they need to be cut some major slack. There's no way they could be the second coming that everyone was hoping for. They serve the purpose of explaining how and why the events that occur in Episodes IV-VI came to be. It's showing why this guy Anakin Skywalker was such a big deal, and how and why he made the transformation from good Jedi Knight to evil Darth Vader, dark lord of the Sith. It's showing what Obi-Wan Kenobi, the wise old Jedi who started Luke Skywalker on the path to Jedi Knighthood, and restoring the Jedi Order, was like in his youth, and just where he might have gone wrong with Anakin. It's showing the glory and extravagance of the Old Republic which transformed into the evil Galactic Empire, and how a corrupt and evil politician/Sith lord was able to become its Emperor. It's showing how powerful the legendary Jedi Knights really were, and why Yoda deserved to be called "Master." It's the prologue, and I'd say it's pretty darn good for a prologue.

I agree 100%. I have always been of the opinion that everything will make a lot more sense once Episode III hits in 2005. Also, most everybody who has seen the original trilogy saw through a much younger set of eyes. One other thing that bugs me about people's criticism of the Star Wars universe is the "midi-chlorians" or however the hell it is spelled backstory. People got all in an uproar over this when it was brought up, talking about how it was never mentioned in the original trilogy. Well, it was never mentioned because there was no need to, duhhhh. Episode I-III is backstory compared to IV-VI. People should keep an open mind. I can guarandamntee you that if I-III was filmed 20 years ago and IV-VI is done now that people would be one of two things: A)-not be so critical of episodes I-III and instead be critical of IV-VI, or 2)-not be so critical at all about any of them.

How did this turn into a Star Wars message board?

[Oxnard Hamster]

BTW.. it is romored that Episode III will be subtitled.
"Circle of the Force"
lame, huh???

Well, you have to take rumors with a grain of salt. A lot of people thought Episode II would be called either "The Clone Wars" or "Rise of the Empire."
And I agree that the main reason Episodes I and II are trashed so much is because people's expectations were too high.
The only thing that upsets me is the fact it looks like we won't get to see The Clone Wars in the actual movies.
And I hope Episode III has some more action. It seems like I and II are just build up.

[Karpo_007]

They aren't dissed just because they aren't as good as originals, they are dissed because they aren't really goo movies, Star Wars or not. Phantom Menace was like a Disney movie with "Oops, I blew up space ship" kind of things, not to mention Jar Jar Binks. Laso the writing isn't that good, it's full of cheesy lines.

Actors in Phantome Mebace are ok, McGregor and Neesson do their job well. But Episode 2... Hayden Kristennsen enough said. Also cheesy line return and I got personally bored while watching the movie.

They are certainly no Oscar Winners, Except in the Special effect department. Those are the only first class hing about the movies, along side with ligh saber battles. Many people look this movies trough Star Wars glasses, and can't see their faults. Understandable, I have similar thing with the TMNT most of the time. But I have lerned to critisize movies as such, just movies, where Story, Directing, Plot development and Actor performances decide if the movies are good or not.

New Star Wars aren't entirely bad, As A Star Wars fan I can watch them and enjoy them even, but I can still see why they won't be classics. Most people don't critisize them because it's cool, there really is reason to.

About "It's Lucas' Story", thats right. But it isn't only Lucas that made the great first trilogy. I have written long posts about this before, So Il put it shorter this time[Well as short as I can]. Gary Kurtz, the producer of New Hope and Empire Strikes back is highly responsible of he greatness of thos two films. Especially the Darkest Star Wars movie, Empire Strikes back. That movie is worldwide considered the Best Star Wars movie, and I agree to this to.

This is the part where "It's Lucas' Story" comes in. Director of Empire Irvin Kershner, had many disagrements with Lucas about Empire. Lucas wanted to do some things diffrently, and Kershner wasn't a director he could controll, he did his own way. This is what cuased some trouble Between Lucas and Kurtz and he wasn't involved on Return of Jedi. Return of Jedi was originally going to be a dark movie, like Empire, and Han Solo was supposed to die in it. It wasn't supposed to be a copy of first movie, And there wasn't supposed to be a Death Star two. Thats how Kurtz wanted it, but Lucas decided to redo the whole thing, And Ewoks reigned.

Of course, it was his choice. Jedi still made lots of money and yes, is a good movie. Of course it doesn't reach the glory of Empire, and lost all the darker elements, but it still works as a whole. I consider it even better than New hope.

So why aren't New episodes as good? Few things, Lucas has witten most of the dialogue himself. And as imaginative as he is, he isn't a skilled movie director. I consider both Empire and Jedi to be better than New Hope, and those two were directed by other directors[altough Lucas chose Richard Marquand to direct Jedi because he could contrill him, unlike Kershner].

And yes, the high expetations do play a part in it to. It's been 20 years, wolrd has changed and Lucas has changed. It is his story, he has right to turn it whatever he wants, but it still doesn't make the movies especially good.

I don't have high hopes for episode 3, but after First two episode it has potetntial to be the best one of them. Episode 2 was a huge step from Phantom menace, there is a chance that Episode 3 will be more that another special effect rollercoaster. Let's hope for the best.

PS. Yes I do know a lot about Star Wars, I have studied it for a long time and written several papers for school about it. Post might contain typos, it's late and there is to much text to go trough... Hopefully there isn't anything unclear.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Hmmm, I didn't know there was a new Star Wars cartoon coming. Guess I'll have to tape that too.

[Oxnard Hamster]

I don't blame it on Christenson. I think for some reason, they decided to make the Jedi order very stoic, when Luke in 4-6 more or less had a believable personality; he just had special abilities in the force.

[Leo656]

Actually, Hayden Christensen is, for what it's worth, the ONLY thing about Episode II that I didn't like, I though his performance was awful. It didn't kill the movie for me, but it did make it less enjoyable.

[Karpo_007]

He is the only really bad actor I can point in Epiosde 2.

[Eye of Sarnath]

One thing I don't understand is, why the hell do people want "dark" movies? Just because something is "dark" doesn't mean it's better, and you're crazy if you think otherwise. Are "dark" movies more successful? No. People could care less if it's "dark" as long as it's good. Personally, I think this "dark" thing is load of ********. Maybe that's why I enjoyed The Phantom Menace so much. I didn't go in thinking (like so many people did) "OMG, it's gotta be super-dark! Anakin's gotta be a rapist and a serial killer!" And because people didn't get what they were expecting, they were dissapointed. And believe me, that is what most of the fans wanted (see the message boards on theforce.net for proof). I wasn't dissaponited, and you know why? I didn't have any expectations, except to be entertained for two hours.

People complain about bad acting. Well, was Frank Oz's performance half-assed? Was Ahmed Best's performance half-assed? How many of the CGI characters have bad voice work? Make no mistake, the real stars of the prequels are very much the CGI characters and the brilliant animators behind them.

I think it's worth mentioning, that there is one area where the prequels are better than he original movies: the music. The music in AotC pretty much kicks the crap out of every other movie (Star Wars or otherwise).

That rant was longer than I expected...

[Karpo_007]

It seem someone is completetly missing the point... But since you hate darker movies, I guess you don't like Empire, or New TMNT for that matter. Both are darker than originals. And you wont like Episode 3 either, Lucas has said in every interview that Episode 3 will be the darkest one of the three.

Also, it seems to me you don't know what darker movies really are. It doesn't mean it will need to have rapists, it means no "OOOPS" after blowing a space ship, or "Meesa in BIIIGGG DOODDOOO!" or Jar Jar in general for that matter.

Few Examples: Matrix: Reloaded is dark, American Pie is light. One thing you did got right, it doesn't mean that darker movies are better, It's a matter of opinion really. And I do prefer Terminator and Matrix over American Pie and Dude where's My car. I like all those movies tough.

Bad acting: Natalie Portman, Hayden Kristenseen to name a few. Portman is not a bad actress, but that role she cannot act. Or it might be Lucas' weakness as a director. If you have watched any interviews, you know He hardly directs the actors, Just says something like, "lets try it again" but not giving guidance how to do it.

About the music, you have a good point there. John Williams is probably the Best composer in the movies business, The music is probably the best thing about New Star Wars movies.

[Eye of Sarnath]

Now tell me: where in that post did I say I hate dark movies? Uh-huh, I thought so. I didn't.

[Karpo_007]

why the hell do people want "dark" movies? Just because something is "dark" doesn't mean it's better, and you're crazy if you think otherwise. Are "dark" movies more successful? No. People could care less if it's "dark" as long as it's good.

Sorry if you didn't mean that, that the impression I got. And you are right it's not the darkness that makes movies like Terminator or Matrix good, it's good story, good actors and directing etc etc. But the lack of darkness is not the reason why New Star Wars movies arent very good. It's the lack of good story, and actor performances. Most actors there are could do a lot better, And I do belive it's strongly beacuse Lucas's directing.

New episodes won't be remembered after 20 years like original trilogy, but if you aren't expecting them to be great movies, but accept them as just a piece of good entertainment, you can enjoy the movies. This has been my attitude after Episode I, but the oldest Star Wars fans can't seem to see the new episodes that way.

[Kameko]

Just found this thread. All I can say is:

Sweet Lord in Heaven, WHY???

[Raven]

[TheShredder]

Check this out
78 Reasons to Hate Star Wars: Episode I
http://www.lanceandeskimo.com/chefel...8reasons.shtml
64 Reasons to Hate Star Wars: Episode II
http://www.lanceandeskimo.com/chefel...4reasons.shtml