Bebop and Rocksteady

[NinjaPug]

Yeah, I think Bebop and Rocksteady are definitely coming this season based on the leaked toy listing. I cant wait to see their designs.

[n-zero]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

???

People can't rewatch episodes or DVDs? Does it matter how long ago it aired when Season 1 is the most rewatched season of the OT?

But that audience isn't necessarily who the Nickelodeon series is being written for. IDW holds onto things like the human designs of Bebop and Rocksteady because the comic is written for adult fans of the series, who most likely cut their teeth on the OT. The Nickelodeon cartoon, while throwing nods to the OT, is written for a new audience. If it was written with slavish devotion to the OT, April would be a reporter instead of a high school student. Casey would be a one-note Dirty Harry parody. Leatherhead would be a cajun-accented villain rather than the Mirage-based ally. Rat King would be a buff guy wrapped in bandages instead of a zombified plague doctor. Slash would be Bebop's pet instead of Raphael's, and Mutagen Man's name would be "Seymour Gutz" instead of "Timothy."

While the showrunners are old school turtle fans, and often times throw in nods to other old school fans, we need to remember that they are also creators trying to express their own vision, and their main target audience is children who don't come with the baggage of a lifetime of fandom. Human Bebop and Rocksteady were nothing more than a brief setup for their mutant versions, and were relevant for all of ten minutes of a TV pilot. It's not the type of detail that they need to be married to when creating this series. slavish devotion to the look characters designed based on a specific decade's street fashion is not a requirement for the audience they are seeking, and we should trust them to make their own decisions in how they update classic characters rather than insisting that it has to be exactly as we remember it. They haven't let us down yet.

[Coola Yagami]

The thing you seem to keep forgetting (or are too stubborn to admit) is that what happens in IDW doesn't have any bearing in the cartoon. The Nickshow wants to be all new, the IDW comic wants to almost remake the OT with a more mature setting and several Mirage/2K3 elements. OF COURSE they're gonna go with the old designs for Bebop and Rocksteady in the IDW comics since they're going for that whole nostalgia modern remake thing. However, the Nickshow is all about new things, big surprises and new twists on old characters in ways we never could have guessed. If they want to turn Fong and Sid into Bebop and Rocksteady.... or bring in Hun and turn him and that Russian General into Bebop and Rocksteady.... or make them animal mutants, they will.

Hell for all we know, we could have the Russian General be Rocksteady and a black dude with a blonde ponytail named Hun turn into Bebop. Who really knows. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Xever got bitten by a warthog and then...

[CyberCubed]

I view Bebop and Rocksteady's human forms as their characters. If they were just animals prior to mutation they just wouldn't be the same.

Also they shouldn't whitewash Bebop.

[CinematicESP]

If they do show up on the show, I think it will be a dramatically different take on the characters, much like the other new versions of characters we've seen before. I imagine they won't be replacing Dogpound and Fishface as Shredder's goons, but be their own thing.

Also, am I allowed to ask where one might find this leaked toy listing?

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by CinematicESP

Also, am I allowed to ask where one might find this leaked toy listing?

Check out the 2013 TMNT Figures thread in the Toys forum. Look for posts from Hurrijak.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I view Bebop and Rocksteady's human forms as their characters. If they were just animals prior to mutation they just wouldn't be the same.

Also they shouldn't whitewash Bebop.

So in other words... like every other classic character that's shown up in this show so far?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

So in other words... like every other classic character that's shown up in this show so far?

I countered this before. Mutagen Man is a minor character, nobody cares that his human form was different. And Rat King never had a real origin.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I countered this before. Mutagen Man is a minor character, nobody cares that his human form was different. And Rat King never had a real origin.

Mutagen Man hardly counts since he was a one-shot. Rat King was always a muscular looking blonde guy (before 2K3 changed that). That was his trademark appearance. You keep confusing origin with appearance when it comes to Rat King. What does him being a blonde guy have to do with his origin? He easily could have been some blonde guy scientist that somehow got muscular or whatever due to the Mutagen. When you take that into consideration, it really doesn't matter who or what Bebop and Rocksteady were before as long as we get some sort of mutant rhino and warthog. Your points are invalid when we take into account the massive redesigns for Traag, Karai, and Casey.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Your points are invalid when we take into account the massive redesigns for Traag, Karai, and Casey.

Karai and Casey are kids in this version, they're teens just like April. It was obvious they would all look a little different. And even then they're still all recognizable. They had to age these characters down when they decided to write the story they wanted to do.

Yeah Traag is very different, but he's still a rock monsters.

There's no reason for Rocksteady and Bebop not to have memorable human designs similar to their past ones. Of course they won't look exactly the same, but similar traits (like how IDW changed some of their looks but kept them distinct) would be obvious.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Karai and Casey are kids in this version, they're teens just like April. It was obvious they would all look a little different. And even then they're still all recognizable. They had to age these characters down when they decided to write the story they wanted to do.

Yeah Traag is very different, but he's still a rock monsters.

There's no reason for Rocksteady and Bebop not to have memorable human designs similar to their past ones. Of course they won't look exactly the same, but similar traits (like how IDW changed some of their looks but kept them distinct) would be obvious.

Stop confusing IDW's modern remake to Nick's complete re-imagining. Karai, Casey and April do not look like younger versions of themselves. They look like all new characters. I count those as dramatic redesigns. I mean before any of this... teenage April with a ponytail? Karai with blonde hair and dark eyeliner? Casey with face paint and missing teeth?

For all we know, Bebop and Rocksteady could be downright mutant animals. Only Ciro knows for sure.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Stop confusing IDW's modern remake to Nick's complete re-imagining. Karai, Casey and April do not look like younger versions of themselves. They look like all new characters. I count those as dramatic redesigns. I mean before any of this... teenage April with a ponytail? Karai with blonde hair and dark eyeliner? Casey with face paint and missing teeth?

LOL, what? Casey looks like a kid version of Casey. I mean how else would a 16 year old Casey look? Also April is a red head, same as she was in 4kids and the 4th movie and even IDW.

Also if it wasn't for that blonde in the back, Karai just looks like a teenage version of Mirage/4kids Karai.

For all we know, Bebop and Rocksteady could be downright mutant animals. Only Ciro knows for sure.

Given the sheer mass of mutants in this show were previously humans, I'm pretty sure they'll be human too. Dogpound/Xever are blatant expies of Bebop/Rocksteady...and they could have went the animal route with them to begin with but chose to make them humans.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

LOL, what? Casey looks like a kid version of Casey. I mean how else would a 16 year old Casey look? Also April is a red head, same as she was in 4kids and the 4th movie and even IDW.

Also if it wasn't for that blonde in the back, Karai just looks like a teenage version of Mirage/4kids Karai.



Given the sheer mass of mutants in this show were previously humans, I'm pretty sure they'll be human too. Dogpound/Xever are blatant expies of Bebop/Rocksteady...and they could have went the animal route with them to begin with but chose to make them humans.

Um... no? How else would a teenage Casey look... how bout not like that? And like I said in the other post, this April is a whole new design, she doesn't look like the 80's April or the 2K3 April in their teens. There's more to her than just being 'some redhead'. And Karai is a completely different character. I mean she wouldn't even look like Mirage/2K3's daughter/younger sister.

Xever and Bradford were Shredder's men and their mutation was an accident. Unlike the OT, this Shredder had no reason to grab random zoo animals and mutate his thugs into them. Now that Shredder had Chris, Xever and I guess, eventually Tiger Claw... there's no reason for him to suddenly hire two extra thugs. For all we know, the Purple Dragons could be sick of being bossed around by Fishface and all the mutant freaks in general... and decide to mutate two of their own, or they have an accident near some Mutagen...

Either way, just be prepared for however Ciro decides to use them in the show. If I know you, you might still whine about 'but it's not the same' but you'll probably end up liking whatever twist and turns Ciro decided to use for those characters. I haven't heard you once complain 'but Rahzar isn't a mutated wolf, and he's not supposed to be bony and spikey and super fast and agile, and he's not supposed to be Chris Bradford'.

Hell, for all we know, Chris might be the new Baxter for this series and become a new mutant per season. Maybe he and Xever have another mutagen mishap and become Bebop and Rocksteady. Who really knows?

[CyberCubed]

I don't see a younger April/Casey/Karai being that much of a departure. You're probably also thinking about how the CG humans in this show look different than 2D animation by default.

As for Bebop and Rocksteady, I'd rather not see them at all than to suffer through a bastardized version of them. IDW has handled them well so I hope the same happens here.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I don't see a younger April/Casey/Karai being that much of a departure. You're probably also thinking about how the CG humans in this show look different than 2D animation by default.

As for Bebop and Rocksteady, I'd rather not see them at all than to suffer through a bastardized version of them. IDW has handled them well so I hope the same happens here.

Um... no? The CGI has nothing to do with it. That's like saying the TMNT look different with their 3 toes and bandage wraps because of the CGI. I honestly didn't recognize Karai as such until I realized 'oh wait... that's a female ninja... so... omg... THAT'S KARAI???'. As for April, honestly, look at her in the Nick-based comics. If you never heard of the TMNT reboot, would you have thought that kid was April?

As for Bebop and Rocksteady, get ready to be disappointed since they're gonna have an all-new take in this show. Stop bringing up IDW. What part of modern remake VS new re-imagining do you not understand?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

As for Bebop and Rocksteady, get ready to be disappointed since they're gonna have an all-new take in this show. Stop bringing up IDW. What part of modern remake VS new re-imagining do you not understand?

They're both reboots. There is no difference.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

They're both reboots. There is no difference.

Stop being blinded by your own short-sightedness. They are both very different.

The IDW comics choose to go for a modern remake of the old show, heavily rooted in nostalgia, while adding in 2K3, Mirage and all-new elements.

The cartoon show goes for an all new take, re-imagining the characters in bold new dramatic takes.

That's why the IDW comics have a more serious take on the 80's Krang, stone warriors, neutrinos and Bebop and Rocksteady, while the Nick show had a whole evil race of Kraang led by a hivemind leader, a stone golem that isn't even a general/sergeant, and most likely a whole different look/take on Bebop and Rocksteady whenever they happen to appear.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Stop being blinded by your own short-sightedness. They are both very different.

The IDW comics choose to go for a modern remake of the old show, heavily rooted in nostalgia, while adding in 2K3, Mirage and all-new elements.

The cartoon show goes for an all new take, re-imagining the characters in bold new dramatic takes.

That's why the IDW comics have a more serious take on the 80's Krang, stone warriors, neutrinos and Bebop and Rocksteady, while the Nick show had a whole evil race of Kraang led by a hivemind leader, a stone golem that isn't even a general/sergeant, and most likely a whole different look/take on Bebop and Rocksteady whenever they happen to appear.

Both IDW and Nick are reboots, its just that Tom Waltz tries to update past characters rather than do totally new things with them.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Both IDW and Nick are reboots, its just that Tom Waltz tries to update past characters rather than do totally new things with them.

I never said they weren't. But they both do it in completely different ways, so saying there is no difference is being seriously misinformed. In other words, don't get all upset when Bebop and Rocksteady are completely different in the Nick show.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I never said they weren't. But they both do it in completely different ways, so saying there is no difference is being seriously misinformed. In other words, don't get all upset when Bebop and Rocksteady are completely different in the Nick show.

They will be different, but as long as their designs are true to their roots I won't complain.

I definitely don't want to see bones sticking out of them or claws like Dogpound/Rahzar. Yuck.