Can the TMNT brand survive a "bad" Turtles movie?

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

People mostly rag on III for the costumes being inferior to the first two movies. Aside from that and a few lame jokes, the movie wasn't bad at all.

Wouldn't call it bad by any means.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Cipher

It is a bad movie. If you think it is anything other than a bad movie, it is because of nostalgic attachment.

Solid voice work on the characters, wonderful animatronic FX, decent musical score, acting that wasn't that bad at all (Ernie Reyes Jr. and company weren't That bad), no 'shaky cam' in fight scenes (or scenes in general, which hurts most action movies in today's age), capable fight choreography, some lines that make you laugh ("A little Too Raph"), and some actual (small, but appreciated) moments of the characters acting like an actual family (goofing with each other, etc).

And yes, of course that's just my opinion.

So yeah, I like the film. And no, it's not just for 'nostalgic attachment'.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

People mostly rag on III for the costumes being inferior to the first two movies. Aside from that and a few lame jokes, the movie wasn't bad at all.

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

Wouldn't call it bad by any means.

Thank you both! Glad to know I'm not the only one. I actually liked it BETTER than SotO, for the time-travel aspect, the deeper story, (yes, it WAS, with much more to it than a simple "stop Shredder" plot) and the acting being generally better. I also liked the tone better. It struck more of a balance between the seriousness of the first and the goofiness of #2. Raph's moments of bonding with Yoshi, Mikey's crush on Mitsu- it was all subtle but effective. Much more so than Shredder trying to get revenge by making his own mutants. And that "Super Shredder" ending- ugh.... I almost lost all suspension of disbelief there. Keno and Prof. Perry were the best things about #2, IMHO.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think it's even debatable that TMNT III is a stronger film than TMNT II.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I do think TMNT II is much stronger than part 3, so I'd disagree with that. But to each their own.

Part II had a consistent tone, while part 3's tone fell hard on its' face. The 'seriousness' that part 3 tried to have just failed miserably, and the goofiness in part 3 was both annoying and unfunny (at least, to me, there were some actual fun moments in part 2).

The 'Mikey having a crush on Mitsu' was so pointless, tiny, and inconsequential that it might as well not have been in the flick.

The 'Raph dealing with Yoshi' seemed more like a plot point so that the kid could show Raph the scepter. And it didn't make a lick of sense considering it was Mikey who saved him from the fire, and Leo who gave him mouth to mouth. And yet the kid becomes friends with Raph?

Part 3 had the weakest villains (aside from the 2007 film), lamest jokes, worst costumes, complete waste of Casey Jones (even the Keno character had more to do with the plot in part 2, than Casey in part 3), Splinter looks like he was dunked in a vat of grease at KFC, and the Turtles looked like they have not only buck teeth but moles all over their bodies (they looked ready to belong to a Leper Colony).

And the voice work of Splinter, Raph, and Donnie in part 3 were pretty bad (yes, I do think Corey Feldman is a bad voice for Donatello and just does not fit the character at all...and I think he actually did the voice of Slash very well on the 2k12 cartoon series, so I give him credit for that).

Voice work was much better in part 2. And there were fun, little 'family moments' in part 2 that were nowhere to be found in part 3.

But that's just a couple things, and it's just my own opinion on the flick. Didn't mean to put this thread off track. Just wanted to defend part 2, at least a little bit. But I know I'm in the minority on that.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I don't think it's even debatable that TMNT III is a stronger film than TMNT II.

Are you saying II was better? In what way? It had a much more simple plot consisting mainly of Shredder wanting revenge, and not much else outside of Don questioning their origins. It went too far into the "goofy" range at times, and what seriousness there might have been got lost as a result.

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

I do think TMNT II is much stronger than part 3, so I'd disagree with that. But to each their own.

Part II had a consistent tone, while part 3's tone fell hard on its' face. The 'seriousness' that part 3 tried to have just failed miserably, and the goofiness in part 3 was both annoying and unfunny (at least, to me, there were some actual fun moments in part 2).

The 'Mikey having a crush on Mitsu' was so pointless, tiny, and inconsequential that it might as well not have been in the flick.

The 'Raph dealing with Yoshi' seemed more like a plot point so that the kid could show Raph the scepter. And it didn't make a lick of sense considering it was Mikey who saved him from the fire, and Leo who gave him mouth to mouth. And yet the kid becomes friends with Raph?

Part 3 had the weakest villains (aside from the 2007 film), lamest jokes, worst costumes, complete waste of Casey Jones (even the Keno character had more to do with the plot in part 2, than Casey in part 3), Splinter looks like he was dunked in a vat of grease at KFC, and the Turtles looked like they have not only buck teeth but moles all over their bodies (they looked ready to belong to a Leper Colony).

And the voice work of Splinter, Raph, and Donnie in part 3 were pretty bad (yes, I do think Corey Feldman is a bad voice for Donatello and just does not fit the character at all...and I think he actually did the voice of Slash very well on the 2k12 cartoon series, so I give him credit for that).

Voice work was much better in part 2. And there were fun, little 'family moments' in part 2 that were nowhere to be found in part 3.

But that's just a couple things, and it's just my own opinion on the flick. Didn't mean to put this thread off track. Just wanted to defend part 2, at least a little bit. But I know I'm in the minority on that.

I'll agree about the costumes, and Casey could have had more of a role (though it was never about him so much as his "possible ancestor" Whit) but I disagree with most of the rest. The score was so much better, and fit the overall theme and tone of the movie. (Yoshi's Theme in particular is beautiful). And say what you will about Feldman as Don, to me he IS the voice of the movie Donnie, and always will be. There is nothing wrong with Donnie having a deeper and rougher voice, it actually makes him stand out better from his brothers. His voice was just fine, especially when he's muttering to himself while studying the scepter at the beginning, or later when he's trying to figure out how to build a replacement. Feldman's voice made it sound more like someone who spends a lot of time talking to himself and probably doesn't sleep much due to always working on projects. He's got the "sleepless workaholic rasp" that I'd expect Donnie to have. And it works well with the easy-going delivery he gives. Everyone else's voices were the same, so I don't understand why there would be any problems there.

As for the villains, I liked them. They were more a threat due to their conflict with the villagers, rather than threatening the Turtles directly. Both were after the scepter, which made them a threat to the Turtles getting home, as well. It wasn't "we want to kill them" kind of threat, it was a "if they get it back first, we're stuck here for good" threat- which almost becomes a moot point later on when two of them decide they don't want to leave after all! But that still left the rebellion to deal with, and they did understand that the scepter would have to be found and Kenshen returned in order to end the war. The villains weren't even really "bad" except for Walker, they just had opposing goals. Norinaga was trying to put down a rebellion, and Walker was simply supplying the weapons- and apparently had some motives of his own for keeping it going.

Mikey's crush was subtle, but it was actually pretty important, both in terms of Mitsu's worry for Kenshen, and in his wanting to stay behind at the end. He's the turtle who most wants to be accepted and belong somewhere, and the fact that the villagers were willing to welcome them made him question why they were going back at all. His budding interest in her underscored the larger issue of wanting to be able to live in the open- and it was just the most obvious sign of his deeper need. The argument at the end over whether to return never would have happened without him and Raph wanting to remain there with Mitsu and Yoshi.

Speaking of Yoshi, although Mikey and Leo saved him, they really had very little to do with him afterward. It was Raph who was the first one to actually TALK to him. Yoshi was Raph's talk with Splinter from the first movie coming full circle. He saw himself in the boy, and that clearly made an impression on him. And being the protective sort he is, he wanted to make sure Yoshi got to enjoy being a kid as long as possible. He was showing his softer side there, and that was one of the major reasons for the decision later about possibly staying in the past.

Also, there WERE plenty of "family" moments, like when they are talking about splitting up and April reminds them that they are brothers, or when they are by the stream and Raph goes into his little commentary about nature and how much cleaner the water is, etc. or at the beginning when they are trying to cheer him up just before April arrives with the scepter.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

As we all know, bad movies can potentially damage a brand to the point where it bombs the franchise for a few years until it reboots. Common examples are:

- Batman and Robin damn near killed the entire Batman movie franchise for years. Its not only considered the worst comic book movie of all time (that's well known anyway), but it completely soured Batman, Robin, Mr. Freeze, and Bane especially in the eyes of the general public

- Superman IV bombed the Superman franchise in theaters for nearly 20 years. Even Superman Returns was poorly received, which kept the franchise out of theaters for another couple of years until Man of Steel.

- The Green Lantern movie bombed, completely killed the franchises chances of taking off in the mainstream

- Spiderman 3 ruined the original Spiderman trilogy, eventually leading to the films to be rebooted.

- X-men the Third stand almost ruined the X-men movie franchise entirely, but its now going through a second wind.

etc.


While the Turtles franchises has had some less than stellar movies before, they either came at already the waning days of the franchise (TMNT III), or nobody was even aware the movie existed outside of hardcore fans in the first place (TMNT 4 in 2007).


However thanks to Nick the TMNT franchise is probably at the most popular its ever been since around 1992, and this new movie is already well known to the masses thanks to the controversy of the following:

1. Rumors of alien Turtles
2. Michael Bay
3. Megan Fox
4. White Eric Sachs Shredder
5. The leaked script which was horrible


Do you think if this movie bombs with terrible reviews in theaters, that it could potentially damage the TMNT brand? What possible impact could it have on the rest of the franchise?

Cyber, I have to you credit you do make some really good points. The only way this movie hurts the franchise if its as bad as "Avatar the Last Airbender" That pretty much all, but killed the franchise.....

I wish they would just do a movie trilogy based on the original Mirage continuity.
Something like Movie 1 would be like issue 1 or 1 and 2.
Movie 2 would be Leonardo Micro and return of the shredder issues maybe have it end with the turtles getting to North Hampton.
Movie 3 would be of course Return to NY.

Then if you all that would go over well the next obvious movie would be about City at War of course.

But, I feel this would definitely make the turtles a mainstream success.
Maybe aim for a pg-13 rating..

[Vegeta]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

If it can survive you, it can survive anything.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Thank you both! Glad to know I'm not the only one. I actually liked it BETTER than SotO, for the time-travel aspect, the deeper story, (yes, it WAS, with much more to it than a simple "stop Shredder" plot) and the acting being generally better. I also liked the tone better. It struck more of a balance between the seriousness of the first and the goofiness of #2. Raph's moments of bonding with Yoshi, Mikey's crush on Mitsu- it was all subtle but effective. Much more so than Shredder trying to get revenge by making his own mutants. And that "Super Shredder" ending- ugh.... I almost lost all suspension of disbelief there. Keno and Prof. Perry were the best things about #2, IMHO.

People are too quick to bash. Hold onto one thing and keep repeating it. What ugh said I'd spot on. I still support the second movie as well though.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

People are too quick to bash. Hold onto one thing and keep repeating it.

Kinda like you with regards to the Nick series.

Everyone, I present to you the king of hypocrites. Crown him accordingly.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by Powder

Kinda like you with regards to the Nick series.

Everyone, I present to you the king of hypocrites. Crown him accordingly.

I have tons of reasons to hate the "show". Not just one and they're valid. You're just butt hurt.

[Jester]

So...what are the?

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

I have tons of reasons to hate the "show". Not just one and they're valid. You're just butt hurt.

Just like others have tons of reasons to hate TMNT III. Doesn't make them right or wrong. It just means they don't like the movie.

It's no different than your opinion of the Nick show. You not liking the show doesn't make it a bad show. It just means you don't like it. Opinions don't equal facts. Your 'valid' reasons are only your opinions.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Are you saying II was better? In what way? It had a much more simple plot consisting mainly of Shredder wanting revenge, and not much else outside of Don questioning their origins. It went too far into the "goofy" range at times, and what seriousness there might have been got lost as a result. .

No, I'm saying III was better. Re-read my post.

II was nonsense. Though I loved it as a 10 year old.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No, I'm saying III was better. Re-read my post.

II was nonsense. Though I loved it as a 10 year old.

I would've liked to see more of a badass karate pizza man.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No, I'm saying III was better. Re-read my post.

II was nonsense. Though I loved it as a 10 year old.

II was silly but I still felt like it had some cool moments, such as the junkyard scene where Raph...thought he saw a ghost. The costumes were well done. It also seemed like the family dysfunction/drama was still sort of an element.

When I think back to III I'm not really sure what to think of it. It's an awkward and slightly pointless memory that I have of the third film. What did it have going that II didn't?

[Jester]

The Turtles actually use their weapons.
Time travel, including a use of the Time Scepter from the comics.
The implication, if you wanna read into it a little, that Norinaga is Shredder's ancestor and that Mitsu is Yoshi's.
A better general story.

[gutterpunk13]

I think everyone just needs to chill out. Its like the star trek reboot and the DC renumbering, even if this version of the turtles is terrible we still have the original iterations and the new cartoon and IDW comics to fall back on as before. They've been around this long they're not going anywhere.



Does anyone know if there is a way to add this to my DVD? It's a pain keeping my VCR around just for one movie..

[Jester]

Originally Posted by gutterpunk13

It's so easy a the forum fool can do it!

[CyberCubed]

I actually enjoy the second and third movies equally. They're both a massive step down from the first movie, but I can enjoy the highlights of both movie quite a bit.