Your honest opinion of the 1987 cartoon - Then and Now - Page 3

*Refractive Reflections* · 08-09-2014, 06:15 PM

I still enjoy the series very much, but of course the slapstick can be extreme and the plots can feel forced (the European vacation sideseason) or forgettable at times, but the series was chucking out 40+ episodes a season in the 3rd and 4th seasons, so there's bound to be some clunkers there. I think when most people complain about the comedy (breaking the fourth wall and bad puns), episodic nature (plot being solved within each episode), and animation errors, it reflects more on the cartoons of the time (80s and 90s) rather than just the OT itself.
Most shows (not only children's shows but a significant amount of adult shows as well) of the time couldn't be serial since there was no internet or DVR for viewers to catch up on the more intricate details of the characters, much less know how the episodes were in order, plus it was the syndicated nature of television which could easily attract new viewers.

One thing that made the series alluring for me is the show recognizing how outlandish and ridiculous the TMNT concept is in the first place (it was most common whenever OT Raphael applied "real world" logic to the bizarre situations they got into), and building its charm from there rather than starting off pretentiously as most action-adventure cartoons do with consistent melodrama (especially with cartoons of the 90s). I think it's probably one of the more important key aspects of the series, and one of the humblest, because almost any superhero franchise and its concept is absurd or ridiculous in itself in comparison to the real world. If I really wanted to watch stone-cold crime-fighting drama that paralleled the cruelty of real life, I would choose programming that was more realistic and relatable to the human experience rather than with monsters, mutants, aliens, etc.

*neatoman* · 08-09-2014, 06:17 PM

When I first watched it I didn't think very highly of it but I didn't dislike it. I thought it was just a cartoon that didn't really stand the test of time.

Now that I have exposed myself to much of what is considered good TMNT material and watched about 30-50 episodes of the cartoon I have gotten a bit of distaste for it. Now I understand what a lazy waste of potential it is.

Ninja Tiptup · 08-09-2014, 06:23 PM

The old cartoons will always be fun. Some of the ideas were creative for the time. The comedy holds up decently and while it's light on action the slapstick fighting could be rather clever.

It doesn't take itself seriously and that's a plus. We all know it is ridiculous campy light-hearted froth that occasionally tried to teach a lesson.

The 5 part pilot is still the best the series has to offer despite its many animation errors. There are some gems among the massive amount of episodes that follow but none quite recapture the feel of those first 5 IMO.

When I was a kid it was the greatest thing I had ever seen but now I see how they were largely going through the motions and throwing ideas at a dart board every week and it all feels so cookie-cutter.

*CyberCubed* · 08-09-2014, 06:27 PM

The original TMNT cartoon is a lot like the Pokemon anime. Its entertaining even though we all realize its repetitive. Shredder/Bebop/Rocksteady "blast off" like Team Rocket (by running into the module or portals), and the overall plot of the show is just Shredder/Krang trying to take over the world every week.

It's kind of funny when you realize how similar the original TMNT cartoon is to Pokemon in terms of format. Especially considering the length.

*Netkeeper* · 08-09-2014, 06:44 PM

So does that make 2k3 like Pokémon Origins? :V

*Wildcat* · 08-09-2014, 11:12 PM

I grew up watching it and have up to season 4 on DVD.

Honestly I do not think its as ridiculous as most consider it to be. Take out the humor element and the storylines and characters are actually quite interesting.

They were not anymore outrageous than sci-fi/action cartoons of today that are portrayed more seriously and get praised for be gritty and grown up.

*ssjup81* · 08-10-2014, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, to be fair it was also the times, I don't think most cartoons were all that deep or perfect back then, not like they are today. The irony being that many who work on the cartoons of today were prob adults who used to watch the old ones and have helped bring cartoons to what the are now... so who we calling blind. lol

Only thing stopping it from reaching any kind of potentials of some kind or another is the need and/or wait for the right people to come along and have the ability to do it.

Yes, you're right. Most shows at the time aimed at kids were for full on entertainment purposes only. The shows were also very episodic back then so that kids can always tune in without having to worry about missing something.

*Shark_Blade* · 08-10-2014, 06:22 AM

The first Season is still one of the best cinematic piece in history imo.

CowabungaMikey · 08-10-2014, 10:02 AM

I joined the fandom only 1,5 years ago. The 2012 cartoon brought me in, and I got excited to see the more older stuff. I LOVED the 1987 cartoon. Loved it. I don't think it will ever leave. The characters were fantastic, the voice-actors perfect, and most of the time it got some nice animation.

Technogeek29 · 08-10-2014, 10:31 AM

I loved it as a kid watched my VHS I asked/begged my parents to buy to oblivion. Couldn't be helped I just really liked the show. Occasionally will go to youtube and watch my favorite episodes although not many since a lot of my favorites are Donatello and Michelangelo centric episodes. I have no problem watching it today but man some episodes are very hard to stomach even my favorites have a few groan moments here and there.

I skipped Next Mutation thankfully and saw 2k3 following and became a big fan of that, although not at first and didn't start watching it really until season 2. I felt at the time 2k3 was a rip off of the 80's toon so it just outright turned me off. But I was a huge Sci-fi nut and Turtles in Space was my cup of tea.

*neatoman* · 08-10-2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

So does that make 2k3 like Pokémon Origins? :V

That would be a mostly correct analogy, yes.

~~ABrown~~ · 08-10-2014, 04:41 PM

As an adult I still find the original cartoon entertaining. Though it did have its share of stinkers. My favorite seasons are the "red sky" seasons. They were what I had always wished that the TMNT cartoon had been like when I was a kid.

*oldmanwinters* · 08-10-2014, 05:22 PM

Overall, I like the show more now than I did when I was a kid.

And that's saying quite a bit.

Type 97 Chi-ha · 08-10-2014, 06:15 PM

The original five episodes were rather weak (of course it was uncertain if the show would succeed or what direction it was to take), the series became refined after that, but once the show went to CBS, it went downhill. Some good episodes, but a lot of silly or otherwise bad ones. (Presumably because it had so many bad villains that weren't Krang and Shredder to face.)

ryukenden · 08-10-2014, 06:24 PM

When I was a kid, it was the best thing ever. As an adult, I still kind of enjoy it. The first three seasons in particular. Even as a kid, I hated Mikey replacing his chucks with a grappling hook.

*Powder* · 08-10-2014, 06:27 PM

I love it to death but at the same time I have really come to resent it & what it did to the brand. It's funny, it's my childhood, often thoroughly entertaining, but it also represents the death of an adult oriented TMNT. I still watch it all the time (as recently as last week) but my views of it have changed over the years as I came to be familiar with the comics & whatnot.

mikey22 · 08-10-2014, 06:37 PM

every season has at least one great episode

season 1 no doubt wish they kept the animation

season 2 was well written for the most part as well

season 3 who didnt love don in the trenchcoat episode w/ the maltese hampster where everyone gets captured

season 4 the fish episode was a good action one

season 5- casey jones w/ the exericse buffs

seaon 6- the rock episode w/ trag. had great potential to be better but trag pussying out got me mad

seaon 7- ahh the end of the original them song era... the night of the rogues and the dirk savage episode were good fun

season 8 wrath of rat king

season 9... hmmmm one of those 2nd mutation ones were kinda fun

season 10- the turtles in time episodes w/ krang and shredder coming bak. i didnt like lord much but he had a good voice actor

~~Leo656~~ · 08-10-2014, 06:41 PM

Powder: Yeah. I kind of hate it for how it's permanently kept TMNT in a little kids' toybox, never to grow or evolve or expand. Like when they're working on a movie, and they go, "Don't worry, there's pizza", it's like, "Gee, thank God, I was worried for a second you were gonna bury me with boring stuff like story or character development. Thank GOD someone is gonna crack wise about pepperoni. You had me nervous."

More than anything the show itself does "wrong", I resent it for making sure TMNT can never "grow up" with the audience the way Superman, Batman, etc. have.

*Powder* · 08-10-2014, 06:47 PM

Right, the OT became the standard for all future media, the basis for comparison & source for pulling inspiration. Short of maybe The Next Mutation (which isn't ALL bad), it's the worst place to take cues from, yet they all do...

~~Leo656~~ · 08-10-2014, 06:57 PM

Yeah, same way no matter what Neal Adams, Denny O'Neil, and Jim Aparo did with Batman for decades, "Batman" to the public at large was just Adam West in pantyhose until the '89 movie flipped that sh*t on its head, (mostly) for good. But even now, 25 years and several movies and thousands of comics about "dark Batman" later, thanks to that show, every newspaper or magazine article about comics still has "BAM! POW! Comics Aren't Just For Kids Anymore!" as a sub-header, because of how prevalent those "sound effects" were played for laughs on the Adam West show.

As long as people are going to willingly perpetuate the notion that TMNT is a "silly kids' property" with no room for depth or nuance, it's never going to outgrow that show. I think that's a real shame. I mean, I've accepted it, but I'm not thrilled about it, and it's entirely the show's "fault". It would be nice if there was TMNT product for "everyone" who's a fan, but that'll never happen. And no, I don't count comic books that most people can't find and won't read, I mean in the "wider" media arena of movies and TV. Even in live action, TMNT is only ever going to be a cartoon.

08-09-2014, 06:15 PM	#41
Refractive Reflections Mad Scientist $Refractive Reflections's Avatar$ Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,371	I still enjoy the series very much, but of course the slapstick can be extreme and the plots can feel forced (the European vacation sideseason) or forgettable at times, but the series was chucking out 40+ episodes a season in the 3rd and 4th seasons, so there's bound to be some clunkers there. I think when most people complain about the comedy (breaking the fourth wall and bad puns), episodic nature (plot being solved within each episode), and animation errors, it reflects more on the cartoons of the time (80s and 90s) rather than just the OT itself. Most shows (not only children's shows but a significant amount of adult shows as well) of the time couldn't be serial since there was no internet or DVR for viewers to catch up on the more intricate details of the characters, much less know how the episodes were in order, plus it was the syndicated nature of television which could easily attract new viewers. One thing that made the series alluring for me is the show recognizing how outlandish and ridiculous the TMNT concept is in the first place (it was most common whenever OT Raphael applied "real world" logic to the bizarre situations they got into), and building its charm from there rather than starting off pretentiously as most action-adventure cartoons do with consistent melodrama (especially with cartoons of the 90s). I think it's probably one of the more important key aspects of the series, and one of the humblest, because almost any superhero franchise and its concept is absurd or ridiculous in itself in comparison to the real world. If I really wanted to watch stone-cold crime-fighting drama that paralleled the cruelty of real life, I would choose programming that was more realistic and relatable to the human experience rather than with monsters, mutants, aliens, etc.
$Refractive Reflections is offline$

08-09-2014, 06:23 PM	#43
Ninja Tiptup Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 1,451	The old cartoons will always be fun. Some of the ideas were creative for the time. The comedy holds up decently and while it's light on action the slapstick fighting could be rather clever. It doesn't take itself seriously and that's a plus. We all know it is ridiculous campy light-hearted froth that occasionally tried to teach a lesson. The 5 part pilot is still the best the series has to offer despite its many animation errors. There are some gems among the massive amount of episodes that follow but none quite recapture the feel of those first 5 IMO. When I was a kid it was the greatest thing I had ever seen but now I see how they were largely going through the motions and throwing ideas at a dart board every week and it all feels so cookie-cutter. __________________ It's weird to be normal, and it's normal to be weird.

08-09-2014, 06:44 PM	#45
Netkeeper tactical blackquill Join Date: May 2014 Location: Texas, but not for much longer Posts: 3,645	So does that make 2k3 like Pokémon Origins? :V __________________

08-09-2014, 11:12 PM	#46
Wildcat Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 3,513	I grew up watching it and have up to season 4 on DVD. Honestly I do not think its as ridiculous as most consider it to be. Take out the humor element and the storylines and characters are actually quite interesting. They were not anymore outrageous than sci-fi/action cartoons of today that are portrayed more seriously and get praised for be gritty and grown up. __________________ Nothing can survive the will to stay alive, cause if you try, you can do anything.

08-10-2014, 10:02 AM	#49
CowabungaMikey Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2013 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 661	I joined the fandom only 1,5 years ago. The 2012 cartoon brought me in, and I got excited to see the more older stuff. I LOVED the 1987 cartoon. Loved it. I don't think it will ever leave. The characters were fantastic, the voice-actors perfect, and most of the time it got some nice animation. __________________ Cowabunga says it all!

08-09-2014, 06:17 PM	#42
neatoman Overlord Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Stockholm Posts: 11,070	When I first watched it I didn't think very highly of it but I didn't dislike it. I thought it was just a cartoon that didn't really stand the test of time. Now that I have exposed myself to much of what is considered good TMNT material and watched about 30-50 episodes of the cartoon I have gotten a bit of distaste for it. Now I understand what a lazy waste of potential it is.

08-09-2014, 06:27 PM	#44
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,841	The original TMNT cartoon is a lot like the Pokemon anime. Its entertaining even though we all realize its repetitive. Shredder/Bebop/Rocksteady "blast off" like Team Rocket (by running into the module or portals), and the overall plot of the show is just Shredder/Krang trying to take over the world every week. It's kind of funny when you realize how similar the original TMNT cartoon is to Pokemon in terms of format. Especially considering the length.

08-10-2014, 06:22 AM	#48
Shark_Blade Emperor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,909	The first Season is still one of the best cinematic piece in history imo.

08-10-2014, 10:31 AM	#50
Technogeek29 Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Huntsville Posts: 1,486	I loved it as a kid watched my VHS I asked/begged my parents to buy to oblivion. Couldn't be helped I just really liked the show. Occasionally will go to youtube and watch my favorite episodes although not many since a lot of my favorites are Donatello and Michelangelo centric episodes. I have no problem watching it today but man some episodes are very hard to stomach even my favorites have a few groan moments here and there. I skipped Next Mutation thankfully and saw 2k3 following and became a big fan of that, although not at first and didn't start watching it really until season 2. I felt at the time 2k3 was a rip off of the 80's toon so it just outright turned me off. But I was a huge Sci-fi nut and Turtles in Space was my cup of tea.

08-10-2014, 04:41 PM	#52
~~ABrown~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,831	As an adult I still find the original cartoon entertaining. Though it did have its share of stinkers. My favorite seasons are the "red sky" seasons. They were what I had always wished that the TMNT cartoon had been like when I was a kid.

08-10-2014, 05:22 PM	#53
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,489	Overall, I like the show more now than I did when I was a kid. And that's saying quite a bit. __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

08-10-2014, 06:15 PM	#54
Type 97 Chi-ha Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brookfield, IL Posts: 1,333	The original five episodes were rather weak (of course it was uncertain if the show would succeed or what direction it was to take), the series became refined after that, but once the show went to CBS, it went downhill. Some good episodes, but a lot of silly or otherwise bad ones. (Presumably because it had so many bad villains that weren't Krang and Shredder to face.)

08-10-2014, 06:24 PM	#55
ryukenden Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 383	When I was a kid, it was the best thing ever. As an adult, I still kind of enjoy it. The first three seasons in particular. Even as a kid, I hated Mikey replacing his chucks with a grappling hook.

08-10-2014, 06:27 PM	#56
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,945	I love it to death but at the same time I have really come to resent it & what it did to the brand. It's funny, it's my childhood, often thoroughly entertaining, but it also represents the death of an adult oriented TMNT. I still watch it all the time (as recently as last week) but my views of it have changed over the years as I came to be familiar with the comics & whatnot.

08-10-2014, 06:37 PM	#57
mikey22 Stone Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: IL Posts: 682	every season has at least one great episode season 1 no doubt wish they kept the animation season 2 was well written for the most part as well season 3 who didnt love don in the trenchcoat episode w/ the maltese hampster where everyone gets captured season 4 the fish episode was a good action one season 5- casey jones w/ the exericse buffs seaon 6- the rock episode w/ trag. had great potential to be better but trag pussying out got me mad seaon 7- ahh the end of the original them song era... the night of the rogues and the dirk savage episode were good fun season 8 wrath of rat king season 9... hmmmm one of those 2nd mutation ones were kinda fun season 10- the turtles in time episodes w/ krang and shredder coming bak. i didnt like lord much but he had a good voice actor

08-10-2014, 06:41 PM	#58
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Powder: Yeah. I kind of hate it for how it's permanently kept TMNT in a little kids' toybox, never to grow or evolve or expand. Like when they're working on a movie, and they go, "Don't worry, there's pizza", it's like, "Gee, thank God, I was worried for a second you were gonna bury me with boring stuff like story or character development. Thank GOD someone is gonna crack wise about pepperoni. You had me nervous." More than anything the show itself does "wrong", I resent it for making sure TMNT can never "grow up" with the audience the way Superman, Batman, etc. have.

08-10-2014, 06:47 PM	#59
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,945	Right, the OT became the standard for all future media, the basis for comparison & source for pulling inspiration. Short of maybe The Next Mutation (which isn't ALL bad), it's the worst place to take cues from, yet they all do...

08-10-2014, 06:57 PM	#60
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Yeah, same way no matter what Neal Adams, Denny O'Neil, and Jim Aparo did with Batman for decades, "Batman" to the public at large was just Adam West in pantyhose until the '89 movie flipped that sh*t on its head, (mostly) for good. But even now, 25 years and several movies and thousands of comics about "dark Batman" later, thanks to that show, every newspaper or magazine article about comics still has "BAM! POW! Comics Aren't Just For Kids Anymore!" as a sub-header, because of how prevalent those "sound effects" were played for laughs on the Adam West show. As long as people are going to willingly perpetuate the notion that TMNT is a "silly kids' property" with no room for depth or nuance, it's never going to outgrow that show. I think that's a real shame. I mean, I've accepted it, but I'm not thrilled about it, and it's entirely the show's "fault". It would be nice if there was TMNT product for "everyone" who's a fan, but that'll never happen. And no, I don't count comic books that most people can't find and won't read, I mean in the "wider" media arena of movies and TV. Even in live action, TMNT is only ever going to be a cartoon.