Brad Fuller talks about the TMNT Movie

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Agree, there have been some good comic films. And I suppose you can argue that the time constraints can also be seen as a benefit as it can lead to a more coherent, tightly structured plot whereas there's more room for filler in a television series. Sort of like setting lower word limits in essays to keep the writer focused and eliminate waffling.

What's your favourite comic book film other than the 90 film? With you being a Superman fanboy I'm guessing it's the original Reeve film.

Mine is the Dark Knight or Batman 1989. Not exactly original, but they were great.

Ooof, that's actually really tough, because even the ones I love I'm kind of hard on. Like, I do love the Reeve film, but the ending just ruins it for me. Even when I was four I cried bullsh*t on the cheap ending. It's a great movie, but that kind of ruins it, too; the movie itself was too good to end THAT way. Likewise, the Donner cut of Superman II is a terrific movie, but the fact that it's so patched-together makes me hesitant to recommend it to some people, even though as its own film it's got the overall best narrative of any Superman film, especially the restored scenes with Clark and Jor-El in the Fortress. It just looks "off" in spots and I can get by it but I know some people can't.

In some ways "Batman Begins" might be my overall favorite, because once you get past the fact the Joker isn't in it, it's the best self-contained super-hero movie ever made. You can come in knowing nothing about the character, and by the end you know everything important there is to know, it sets up the entire mythology perfectly, and its only deviations from the source material are so minor and inconsequential they're barely noticeable. "Dark Knight" may be a better film and gets all the hype, but it's still a sequel, and thus doesn't work as perfectly as its own self-contained piece of work. If a person factors in faithfulness to the source as well as actually being a very well-done movie in its own right that anyone could enjoy whether they read comics or not, "Batman Begins" came closer than any movie ever has.

I actually prefer "Superman Returns" to the other Superman films; it's a bit melancholy, and Lois was painfully miscast, but it was very true to the spirit of both the books and the earlier films, it's still the best-looking Superman film by far, and also has the best music. They made some choices that I personally wouldn't have made, but I'll forever argue it has far more going For it than Against it. I slightly put it over the Reeve films for a few small reasons, mostly Routh's Clark being less of a dork and there overall being less silly humor and flat jokes than the original film.

Keaton's Batman is great, too, and I'd say it's definitely in my top 5, I'm just not entirely a fan of Joker being the one who killed his parents. As its own thing it's terrific, though. I don't think I ever met 5 people who didn't like that movie.

[TigerClaw]

But if they do introduce Bebop and Rocksteady in a sequel, Are they gonna mutate humans, or they are just gonna get a rhino and warthog, and reproduce the same experiment, they did with the Turtles and Splinter in the 1st film, In hopes of creating Mutants that they can control, To take on the turtles?

the problem is doing the animal to mutant, The mutants would have to take years to adjust in existence and understand the world they live in.

When doing human to mutants, The mutants retains all the memories and self awareness when they used to be human.

So it'll be interesting what approach they will take if they bring those two in a sequel.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ooof, that's actually really tough, because even the ones I love I'm kind of hard on. Like, I do love the Reeve film, but the ending just ruins it for me. Even when I was four I cried bullsh*t on the cheap ending. It's a great movie, but that kind of ruins it, too; the movie itself was too good to end THAT way. Likewise, the Donner cut of Superman II is a terrific movie, but the fact that it's so patched-together makes me hesitant to recommend it to some people, even though as its own film it's got the overall best narrative of any Superman film, especially the restored scenes with Clark and Jor-El in the Fortress. It just looks "off" in spots and I can get by it but I know some people can't.

In some ways "Batman Begins" might be my overall favorite, because once you get past the fact the Joker isn't in it, it's the best self-contained super-hero movie ever made. You can come in knowing nothing about the character, and by the end you know everything important there is to know, it sets up the entire mythology perfectly, and its only deviations from the source material are so minor and inconsequential they're barely noticeable. "Dark Knight" may be a better film and gets all the hype, but it's still a sequel, and thus doesn't work as perfectly as its own self-contained piece of work. If a person factors in faithfulness to the source as well as actually being a very well-done movie in its own right that anyone could enjoy whether they read comics or not, "Batman Begins" came closer than any movie ever has.

I actually prefer "Superman Returns" to the other Superman films; it's a bit melancholy, and Lois was painfully miscast, but it was very true to the spirit of both the books and the earlier films, it's still the best-looking Superman film by far, and also has the best music. They made some choices that I personally wouldn't have made, but I'll forever argue it has far more going For it than Against it. I slightly put it over the Reeve films for a few small reasons, mostly Routh's CLark being less of a dork and there overall being less silly humor and flat jokes than the original film.

Keaton's Batman is great, too, and I'd say it's definitely in my top 5, I'm just not entirely a fan of Joker being the one who killed his parents. As its own thing it's terrific, though. I don't think I ever met 5 people who didn't like that movie.

Nice post. Yeah, I don't like the fact that Napier killed Bruce's parents in 89 film either, rather than Joe Chill. However, it's a minor annoyance. Nicholson (I've already said I love him) and Keaton make the film brilliant.

Begins is a very underrated film, and you're right about it being self-contained. I've met a few people who consider it the highlight of the trilogy, and I can certainly see why.

You're right about what you say on Reeve's Superman. But bear in mind it was made in the seventies, so there was bound to be some cheesy humour there. For its time it was certainly revolutionary and paved the way for comic book films, as Superman paved the way for superheroes (but was superseded by Batman, that comment will make you rage a bit )

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

or they are just gonna get a rhino and warthog, and reproduce the same experiment, they did with the Turtles and Splinter in the 1st film

Betting probably that. However hoping they go human. OR at least add the human DNA element to the story. (And then make it true for the Turtles as well and further a storyline in them discovering and understanding who they are.)

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Betting probably that. However hoping they go human. OR at least add the human DNA element to the story. (And then make it true for the Turtles as well and further a storyline in them discovering and understanding who they are.)

I can totally see the Foot Clan try to replicate what happened before, and create two creatures that they hope to counter the Turtles.

Which is what The Shredder did in Secret of the Ooze.

In fact, What if they borrowed some bits from Secret of the Ooze, in order to bring in Bebop and Rocksteady.

[Leo656]

I'm more or less expecting it to be similar. They'll probably try to play it just a little more "serious". The way they debuted Tokka and Rahzar kind of took the piss out of the rest of the movie. I doubt they'll go the same route, Bebop and Rocksteady will inevitably be stupid but I bet they try to, at first, make them appear to be a credible threat.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I can totally see the Foot Clan try to replicate what happened before, and create two creatures that they hope to counter the Turtles.

Which is what The Shredder did in Secret of the Ooze.

In fact, What if they borrowed some bits from Secret of the Ooze, in order to bring in Bebop and Rocksteady.

I can see where you're coming from, but I have a feeling they will start human.

It's yet another opportunity for them to do a little stunt casting and have R&B be human for quite a while, saving on CGI costs, until the third act when they inevitably become mutants, and we get some weak 5 minute brawl.

More to the point, I would hope that they retain the human origin. While I wouldn't be thrilled by the plan I laid out above, I think human mutation has more impact on a character, than animal mutation. It's addition Vs subtraction, in a sense, as the turtles gained some humanity, while R&B lose some of theirs.

If they start as animals, we also lose the human persona's.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by newhire13

Well technically they did it, they just didn't do it the way you expected them to. I mean the entire film was about their origin and what their existence means, it just wasn't the standard version of that story.

That was my point. It seemed that TigerClaw was suggesting that the movie didn't have time to do the full origin but as I pointed out they actually did a longer origin

I wouldn't say I didn't expect it seeing as I'd read the interview from Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated and even prior to that it was obvious the rout they were going to take. That being said I was still gobsmacked about the learning ninjitsu from a book thing.

So it was along the lines the origin I was expecting but not the origin I wanted and I'd strongly argue the origin they should have used. The Yoshi and Saki rivalry has been in every version in some form and is arguably the most important aspect of their origin. It certainly is if the main villain is Shredder himself.

I'd say the majority of the fans are with me on that. Heck months prior to the confirmation they'd be no Yoshi/Saki rivalry many of this movie's defenders argued vehemently it would be. One of them even called me stupid because it was "so obvious" they were going the IDW reincarnation rout and they swallowed all the guff about how the makers were all big fans and sticking true to core elements etc.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

But if they do introduce Bebop and Rocksteady in a sequel, Are they gonna mutate humans, or they are just gonna get a rhino and warthog, and reproduce the same experiment, they did with the Turtles and Splinter in the 1st film, In hopes of creating Mutants that they can control, To take on the turtles?

the problem is doing the animal to mutant, The mutants would have to take years to adjust in existence and understand the world they live in.

When doing human to mutants, The mutants retains all the memories and self awareness when they used to be human.

So it'll be interesting what approach they will take if they bring those two in a sequel.

In all seriousness I'd imagine if they went with the animal to mutant rout they'd treat it Secret of the Ooze, IDW and the 80s and current animated series do that they instantly mutate and either magically already know or quickly learn human-like behavior.

I personally wouldn't care for that at all. It works fine in the context of cartoons because their world is well...cartoonish but in any version with even a hint of realism it's stupid. I don't care for it in the IDW books and while I've said it doesn't bother me in the cartoon it's still at the back of my mind that it's stupid given they highlighted and made a big deal the turtle didn't instantly mutate.

I'd personally prefer they had some kind of mutagen assisted DNA splicing going on with human Bebop and Rocksteady as volunteers as they did in the original show. I've always thought a more serious take would have them strapped down ala 'Enter the Shredder' but have tubes pumping substances in them while they writhe in pain or maybe they're in giant tubes of liquid ala Woverine getting bonded with the adamantium.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I wouldn't say I didn't expect it seeing as I'd read the interview from Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated and even prior to that it was obvious the rout they were going to take.

Wow. He seriously said that?

This just makes me dislike Leibesman even more. Horrible director.

[TigerClaw]

Plus the sequel will have to further explain the Ooze, Even though April as a child said it came from outer space, You could take that she was told that as a joke by the scientist. But it could actually be from outer space, so who knows.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I wouldn't say I didn't expect it seeing as I'd read the interview from Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated and even prior to that it was obvious the rout they were going to take. That being said I was still gobsmacked about the learning ninjitsu from a book thing.

If he actually said that he can go f*ck himself.

Maybe too complicated for HIM and the other untalented hacks on the crew who worked on this movie, but maybe not complicated for people with talent.

I'd say the majority of the fans are with me on that. Heck months prior to the confirmation they'd be no Yoshi/Saki rivalry many of this movie's defenders argued vehemently it would be. One of them even called me stupid because it was "so obvious" they were going the IDW reincarnation rout and they swallowed all the guff about how the makers were all big fans and sticking true to core elements etc.

I wish I'd saved allllll those posts from certain posters that were sooooo sure the movie would have this or that and...lo and behold...it friggin' didn't.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

Wow. He seriously said that?

This just makes me dislike Leibesman even more. Horrible director.

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

If he actually said that he can go f*ck himself.

Pretty much...

"They do become mutants because of Mutagen," says Liebesman (who says that the film will not include the exact "Daredevil"-inspired origin from the comic). "For me, as a fan, it's a very satisfying origin. We discussed, 'Should we do the exact Eastman thing?' The problem is, it becomes very complicated. People who aren't fans will just be like, 'What the f-- is going on?' There's already so much complication in terms of Splinter being formed because he was Shredder's nemesis who stole his girlfriend. It's just that then you start opening a whole bunch of doors that became very complex to explore in this film."

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=120723

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

Maybe too complicated for HIM and the other untalented hacks on the crew who worked on this movie, but maybe not complicated for people with talent.

Well I have a bit of trouble with Leibesman. Is he that shortsighted or is he just a point and click monkey that does exactly producers want? I'm honestly not sure which would be better.

I wish I'd saved allllll those posts from certain posters that were sooooo sure the movie would have this or that and...lo and behold...it friggin' didn't.

Indeed. Then again some of them seem convinced all that was missing in this movie will be in the sequel. I'm not holding my breath.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Plus the sequel will have to further explain the Ooze, Even though April as a child said it came from outer space, You could take that she was told that as a joke by the scientist. But it could actually be from outer space, so who knows.

The mutagen was already explained in the movie. It's a cure for this deadly disease that no one has ever heard of.

At very least that might go some way to say why the turtles almost instantly heal after getting shot and why it was used to save Splinter's life. I wonder if they actually thought of that or if it's a case of monkeys and typewriters.

I don't think it needs further explanation. In fact it's best forgetting the whole thing otherwise you have to wonder why Shredder and Sacks wouldn't just do the whole plan again. The certainly have the means and the resources to do so.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated

So complicated that Shredder was supposedly killed off how soon in the original comics? Don't overcomplicated it on your own and you could probably at least give an overview of that pretty fast.

Or is it more like "we want to insert our own ideas in parts of it that shouldn't have it inserted." (For some reason I feel that "no means no" is fitting to say there...)

Still wish Yoshi had simply been a guy working in the lab, would have been so easy.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Galactus

The mutagen was already explained in the movie. It's a cure for this deadly disease that no one has ever heard of.

At very least that might go some way to say why the turtles almost instantly heal after getting shot and why it was used to save Splinter's life. I wonder if they actually thought of that or if it's a case of monkeys and typewriters.

I don't think it needs further explanation. In fact it's best forgetting the whole thing otherwise you have to wonder why Shredder and Sacks wouldn't just do the whole plan again. The certainly have the means and the resources to do so.

If they plan on using the Mutagen on Humans to create Bebop and Rocksteady, They would have to reverse engineer it to work on humans then. If that was a so called cure for Humans, That only mutates animals in contact with it. They would have to fix is so that it has the same affect on human beings.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

If they plan on using the Mutagen on Humans to create Bebop and Rocksteady, They would have to reverse engineer it to work on humans then. If that was a so called cure for Humans, That only mutates animals in contact with it. They would have to fix is so that it has the same affect on human beings.

You have a point. PD Mutagen doesn't have the same properties as FW's does.

Oh... the horror.

Somebody stop this train.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Reading these quotes from the director, as well as the quotes from Brad Fuller...all I can say is that the people behind this flick have a case of FOSS.

What's that?

take Full Of Spit Syndrome...then change a letter...

[chrisdude]

The man clearly explains that what he learned from this movie, was to focus on the adults who loved ninja turtles as a kid. The movie absolutely wasn't made, "for children." If anything, we should be upset that he forgot all about children, and made no reference to, and drew no inspiration from the current cartoon. He said the kids don't have "the background," as if the cartoon didn't exist.

[TigerClaw]

With the sequel coming in 2016, Two years have passed since the Shredder and the Foot Clan tried, and was stopped from spreading a virus in NYC. If he survived that fall, I'm sure he would want to retaliate, And get Baxter Stockman to reverse engineer the Mutagen, to test it on Humans, He would want to create some super soldiers within his Foot Clan to take on the Turtles.

What if they introduce the Purple Dragons in the sequel, and two of its rejects got recruited by the Shredder, and became the two test subjects for this new mutagen, Which resulted in Bebop and Rocksteady.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The man clearly explains that what he learned from this movie, was to focus on the adults who loved ninja turtles as a kid. The movie absolutely wasn't made, "for children." If anything, we should be upset that he forgot all about children, and made no reference to, and drew no inspiration from the current cartoon. He said the kids don't have "the background," as if the cartoon didn't exist.

Well, in fairness the show itself probably wasn't all that old when the meat if this film was being worked on.

They seem to have pulled Donnie's lankier build from it, as well as the blue eyes on Leo and Mikey, though I imagine the initial writing may have been happening before the show even premiered. Fingers crossed maybe they will pull a little more from it for the next.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, in fairness the show itself probably wasn't all that old when the meat if this film was being worked on.

They seem to have pulled Donnie's lankier build from it, as well as the blue eyes on Leo and Mikey, though I imagine the initial writing may have been happening before the show even premiered. Fingers crossed maybe they will pull a little more from it for the next.

What could they pull from the Show besides the whole Donnie crushing over April thing, Since Mikey has that covered in the movie.