Hun in Mirage

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by VaughnMichael

It's ok, I like Fast Forward also and almost everyone here hates that to. *shruggs*

I loved FF! I wrote some FF stuff. If it weren't for the brevity of the writing experience I probably would have enjoyed writing those stories a little more than the Mirage books (but the Mirage books will always win out when it comes to the final product)!

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by CJStyles

I don't mind the blending of universes and just want a freakin good story. Which I'm sure it will be

There will be elements people will expect, but I'm hoping there's a lot in there people won't...

Thanks for the faith though CJ!

[Jester]

Indeed that's what matters. If a character works in the other universes fine, but the story better be top notch.

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm actually more satisfied with this story than I was with #36 and #50. There's an emotional thrust to it that I'm hoping people dig. It also follows up on some of the things mentioned throughout #36, and starts the ball rolling for the rest of my stories next year, but at the same time, I think it's fairly well contained (at least, as much as Tales #36 was).

[Andrew NDB]

I'll check it out with an open mind, of course, but like Rose I'm pretty fundamentally against reverse-polinating the Mirage universe with things from the children's spinoffs.

I do like the Bane comparison... I could see such a character working in Mirage. It doesn't hurt that I'm a huge Bane fan. And of course if Laird is over your shoulder advising you to go ahead and do Hun... what are you going to say?

If it were me I'd do a Hun-like character, taking things the things that "work" about him in the 4Kids toons and developing him into someone new entirely... though still leaving people with enough that they would be thinking, "Yeah, this guy is kind of the Mirage equivalent of Hun."

It's just, when you actually go ahead and give him the name Hun it seems like you're kind of automatically forcing all sorts of comparisons between him and the toon version... which isn't fair to the character you're trying to create.

My $.02.

[TristanHuwJones]

He's of far less moral fibre than Bane, trust me.

Again, I can see where both you and Rose are coming from, and while part of me dug the idea of having a Hun equivalent, the similarities were so striking that I, like Peter, was constantly thinking as I was writing the outline: "I should just make it Hun." And again, the original character WAS modeled off Hun.

Good point on the comparisons too, but if the character I'm creating essentially is Hun, I'd rather have readers make those comparisons than have people say "he's a rip off of Hun, why not just make him Hun?"

Hopefully, people will come away thinking "Man(/Woman)! Imagine if Hun were like that in the cartoon!"

[CJStyles]

I don't mind a few similarities between the toon and Mirage's version, but I'd like to see a fresh spin, which you said we'd see. Being a fan and writing fan fictions I'm a sucker for taking establish characters and putting spins on them or changing their origins and what not. I'm curious to get my hands on this comic tough. I still need to get "To Serve and Protect" (broke and haven't started my job yet).

I'm curious to see how Hun will tie in to the upcoming stories

[TristanHuwJones]

There are elements being kept, because I think there are elements to Hun's past in particular that work exceptionally well, but even those elements will have a slightly more in depth twist to them. Like Serve And Protect (when you get round to checking it out) there will be some reading between the lines, because I love speculating when I read something and I don't think any writer should take his audiences intelligence for granted and have to really spell things out, but it's all in place. I've also tried to make him something of a wildcard for Casey. There are elements of Casey as a character that I don't think have ever really been looked at properly, and I'm using Hun to try and show new sides to Casey, or push the lesser seen sides.

I'm also a big fan of fan fiction (well, good fanfiction, I've seen a lot of bad fan fiction, and some really disturbing fan fiction as well), but I don't want this to read like fan fiction, so hopefully it won't!

[CJStyles]

I'm sure it won't. And I agree, I have read some crazy fan fics and some bad ones..

[odupianist]

Tristan, I'm interested in hearing why you hate Bishop so much, and not in the way Vaughn does.

[TristanHuwJones]

I got very tired, very quickly of Bishop. The same way I grew tired of the Shredder. I didn't mind him when he first came on the scene, I thought he was a neat new villain to throw into the mix, but eventually it was ALL Bishop. He became the new Shredder. The more I found out about Bishop, the less I liked him. The fact that he was "ageless", the cloning thing, the obsession, the ninja-skills. I think he worked perfectly in FF, and I enjoyed him in that to be honest, but I think it was mainly a case of overkill, for me at least, in the 2k3 series. Too much, too soon. There were some really great moments where I thought "if he was more like this all the time I wouldn't mind him".
I think he works great as a reluctant ally/sometimes villain.

Ultimately it could just be that he reminds me too much of Agent Smith from the Matrix movies... I hate those films.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Ultimately it could just be that he reminds me too much of Agent Smith from the Matrix movies... I hate those films.

Finally I'm not alone in my hate of the Matrix movies! lol

[TristanHuwJones]

I hate them with the fury of a thousand territorial baboons on heat dude. I was kind of enjoying the first one until that superman bit right at the end. Then I hated it.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I hate them with the fury of a thousand territorial baboons on heat dude. I was kind of enjoying the first one until that superman bit right at the end. Then I hated it.

lol well I mostly don't like them because I think Keanu Reeves is a terrible actor.

[The Big Bad]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I got very tired, very quickly of Bishop. The same way I grew tired of the Shredder. I didn't mind him when he first came on the scene, I thought he was a neat new villain to throw into the mix, but eventually it was ALL Bishop. He became the new Shredder. The more I found out about Bishop, the less I liked him. The fact that he was "ageless", the cloning thing, the obsession, the ninja-skills. I think he worked perfectly in FF, and I enjoyed him in that to be honest, but I think it was mainly a case of overkill, for me at least, in the 2k3 series. Too much, too soon. There were some really great moments where I thought "if he was more like this all the time I wouldn't mind him".
I think he works great as a reluctant ally/sometimes villain.

While I won't disagree with your assesment of the guy, it seems to me that, given this and previous comments on the Triceratons (you mentioned finding them tiring after their first appearance), it takes very little for a character to become over-used in your eyes. Sure, Bishop became prominent very quickly after his introduction, but over-used? I just don't see it. The guy appeared in nine episodes (most of them comprising the invasion arc) in season 3, eight in season 4, and three episodes on both Seasons 5 and 6--twenty three out of ninety episodes. Prominent? "ALL Bishop"? I'd say no.

But anyways, back to the topic: Hun in the comics? Cool; I'm glad to see that he's made Canon Immigrant status, and am optimistic that he'll be done justice. Still, I hope that the two incarnations are kept distinct and separate; I don't want to learn while watching season 8 of the cartoon that Original Flava Hun's real name is also Hunter Mason. I'm also (somewhat irrationally) that Hunter's superior standing on the canonicity scale (Mirage comic books > 4Kids cartoon) will somehow diminish the original character seem like the lesser version--still, that's somewhat inevitable; I'd rather that happen than Hun not being used.

And out of curiousity, how do you feel is the Original Flava Hun not being done justice in the 'toon? I know he's grown less prominent as time has gone by (although it seems like that will be reversed with Back to the Sewers), I've liked the low-key progression of the character since season 3 and feel that more prominence would be a disservice, since I feel any long Purple Dragons arc would feel too much like a rehash of the Shredder's.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

While I won't disagree with your assesment of the guy, it seems to me that, given this and previous comments on the Triceratons (you mentioned finding them tiring after their first appearance), it takes very little for a character to become over-used in your eyes. Sure, Bishop became prominent very quickly after his introduction, but over-used? I just don't see it. The guy appeared in nine episodes (most of them comprising the invasion arc) in season 3, eight in season 4, and three episodes on both Seasons 5 and 6--twenty three out of ninety episodes. Prominent? "ALL Bishop"? I'd say no.

Fair call, as I said, a lot of my dislike for the character probably stems back to the Agent Smith thing And you know how it is when you don't like something, it seems to dominate whatever it's part of, no matter how good the good is?

I'll be honest too, I think the thing with him being the Rat King kinda hacked at me too. I wouldn't've minded it if it was some other hapless idiot that Bishop screwed over (which would've made Bishop a much more sinister character), rather than Bishop being rather ego-maniacal and creating a super human race in his image.

As I said, there are a lot of things that I thought were cool about the character, but I think the execution of certain plot points revolving around him could've been a lot better, and would have enhanced the character indefinitely (the Rat King example being one).

It's not so much that I get tired quickly of characters or aspects, it's when there's too much in one go, almost like an overdose, that I get wary. I was fine with the Triceratons, but I think having Space Invaders and World's Collide be such a fast and furious thing and have it happen relatively early was what made me lean against it. Sure, there were some decent sized arcs between the last Triceraton story and these ones, but personally, I feel it would've been better to have it AFTER Bishop was introduced and just prior to the Ninja Tribunal.

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

But anyways, back to the topic: Hun in the comics? Cool; I'm glad to see that he's made Canon Immigrant status, and am optimistic that he'll be done justice. Still, I hope that the two incarnations are kept distinct and separate; I don't want to learn while watching season 8 of the cartoon that Original Flava Hun's real name is also Hunter Mason. I'm also (somewhat irrationally) that Hunter's superior standing on the canonicity scale (Mirage comic books > 4Kids cartoon) will somehow diminish the original character seem like the lesser version--still, that's somewhat inevitable; I'd rather that happen than Hun not being used.

Hun's intro to the Mirage Universe serves a very distinct purpose, at least in the stories I'm planning (and telling) next year (and hopefully beyond). Hopefully, as things go on, the two Huns will be distinctly different, but at the same time, not so much that one completely outweighs the other (as you said). Think about the similarities and differences between characters that appear in both the comics and the cartoons. There are some very distinct differences, but when you strip them right back, they're essentially the same person.

The other thing is that you're not going to get all of Hun in this issue. He's going to be appearing again. I don't want to slam you with too much character development in one issue (goes back to what I said before). He's part of a larger puzzle, which will probably start to become apparent when other characters show up (one does in Hun's intro).

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

And out of curiousity, how do you feel is the Original Flava Hun not being done justice in the 'toon? I know he's grown less prominent as time has gone by (although it seems like that will be reversed with Back to the Sewers), I've liked the low-key progression of the character since season 3 and feel that more prominence would be a disservice, since I feel any long Purple Dragons arc would feel too much like a rehash of the Shredder's.

I think he's being done justice in the cartoon, I think he's working fine (though I hate seeing him getting screwed over by the Shredder ). But he's a character that, if you removed the boundaries of the target audience, you could do so much more with. There are stories I have planned with Hun that you probably couldn't do in a Saturday morning cartoon. There's an aspect to the Turtle universe that has never really been properly explored, revolving around the criminal element of NYC after City at War. Where have all the other big syndicates been while the Shredder and the Foot were dominant? Where was the mob? What happened to the Purple Dragons? What happens to the territory the Foot held now that Karai has reformed them? We know that there was a heavy gang presence in New York... what happened?

And on the Purple Dragon arc: it can definitely be done. With the Shredder, it was all about the Turtles, Splinter and the Foot. Casey and April were just ancillary characters caught in the crossfire.
You throw Hun into the mix, the character focus shifts. The turtles are still the core characters of the book, but the story focus is on these other characters.
You're going to see that the encounter in issue #36 has had some definite repercussions, especially with Leonardo. Consequences are a big part of the Turtles mythology, and all the stories I've got coming along are consequences of something, and will have consequences themselves.

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by VaughnMichael

lol well I mostly don't like them because I think Keanu Reeves is a terrible actor.

Keanu Reeves acts??? Is that what he's attempting to do??? I don't like him either and I despise the Matrix movies. The first one bored me so I changed the channel....Yeah that's right...I've never seen the ending

I LOVE LOOOVE Animatrix but regular Matrix is meh. To me Keanu is still the long haired hippy of Bill and Ted's Adventures.

[Andrew NDB]

Strictly out of curiosity, but what did you hate about Neo doing the Superman at the end of Matrix 1?

[TristanHuwJones]

At the time the Matrix came out, it was being billed as this big 5 star action movie that was smart. The amount of hype this thing was getting, particularly because it was filmed here, was ridiculous. That made me wary.
Anyway I saw this, and thought okay, he's doing all this crazy ****, he's the master of the matrix, cool. It was all well within the boundaries of the believability set at the time (remember, this was before sequels), UNTIL that moment. Why shoot out of the phone booth Superman style? If he had've just walked away in slow-mo, I wouldn't've cared, but that came totally out of the blue and left me scratching my head. Why did that happen? Of course, later, I find that the sequels are happening and the sequels come out and it all makes sense, but at the time, a webcomic version of me would have a big WTF?! floating above its head.
I guess ultimately, I was going in looking for anything not to like about this movie. About two thirds the way in I was coming around and starting to enjoy it, but that Superman thing just yanked me straight out of the movie I'd just been watching and turned it into something else entirely.

I saw the second Matrix and thought it was terrible. Never even bothered with the third.

I DID really enjoy most of the Animatrix...

[Roseangelo]

I fell asleep when I saw the Matrix... and that was in one of those Cinema Cafe places, so I actually laid down on a bench seat.