Who is your favorite Robin?

[CyberCubed]

Can someone explain to me why Jason Todd was hated? Was it simply because he was viewed as a Dick Grayson replacement/knockoff or was it something about his personality?

Why did comic fans hate him in the 80's?

[ZariusTwo]

He was quite arrogant and whiny, very disrespectful to Batman and hard to control. People werent ready for that kind of Robin yet. I understand the writers wanted to make him a challenge for Bruce but the way they did it was'nt very polished. Damien is a better example of how to grow a conceited and angry kid into a disciplined sidekick

[Andrew NDB]

Damian Wayne is definitely the most entertaining Robin that makes the most sense as to why he would be and continue to be.

[Leo656]

Something about an 8-year old kid who runs around decapitating people to "prove himself" and impress his Dad rubbed me wrong from the start. I mean, it just seemed almost like Family Guy where characters just murder people all the time and there's no repercussions; Damian spends all his time in early issues either killing people or trying to kill people, especially Tim, and Bruce is all "Oh, that wacky kid! Ho ho, another pile of gangster head to bury in the yard, eh? Don't worry about it, son, I'm f*cking rich. Now let's go beat up some bad guys. Tim... who the f*ck let you back in the house?!" None of the terrible things Damian did or tried to do seemed to make Bruce very upset, and saying "kids will be kids" when your son is a serial killer is a little bit beyond my suspension of disbelief. And Bruce seemed like a huge dick in that, after everything Tim had gone through recently, having his own Dad murdered, etc., for Bruce to just basically discard him, his adopted son, because his "real" son was around now seemed horrible. I didn't buy any of it.

Further, when they showed glimpses of the future and how things would possibly be with Damian as Batman, I didn't like it. Selling his soul to the Devil, willingly blowing up parts of the city to stop "bad guys"... it went too far away from Batman into "domestic terrorist/full blown villain" for me. As soon as I read issue #666 I said out loud, "Well hopefully none of that will ever happen." Further, I always felt Batman would be smart enough to know that Damian only existed in order to manipulate Bruce and make him a pawn of Talia, Ra's, or both. Obviously he would want to care for his son, but he seemed to just ignore the other half of the kid's parentage way too quickly. I get that they did their best to have Damien evolve and be "redeemed" as the books went on, but I never liked the direction the books went into in general after he was introduced.

I get that a lot of people seem to really like the character, but being honest, I don't get it at all.

[CyberCubed]

I hate the fact that all the Robin's look almost identical with their masks off excluding their heights. They should have at least made one Robin a blonde or have red hair or something. They did it for Flash/Kid Flash/Impulse.

[Leo656]

Part of it (originally) was that when Dick quit and Jason started, there was only a short break in between, and Batman didn't want anyone to catch on that anything was different. The illusion he/they were trying to maintain was that there had only been one Robin. Some of Batman's most common foes like Joker and Catwoman eventually caught on, for various reasons; Two-Face, for example, is Dick Grayson's arch-nemesis in comics canon (slightly pre-dating Deathstroke as his main rival), and while not knowing who Grayson is under the mask, can always tell it's him whether he's Robin, Nightwing or Batman.

But for the most part, the fact that Batman had gone through several partners was a closely-guarded secret; in fact, even Superman never knew Jason Todd was Robin until Bruce told him after Jason's death, despite Clark knowing Bruce Wayne's secret ID. Eventually, more of the super-hero community in the DCU became more open with each other about their IDs, so most of them at least knew who the Robins were, if not Batman, but *most* villain characters were left in the dark about if there really had been more than one Robin. Enough time passed so that it became *rumored* that the first Robin had grown up to be Nightwing, but it was never common knowledge.

Keep in mind, this logic requires the reader to remember/understand that not *every* criminal in Gotham or the DCU is a super-villain or has close contact with Batman and his various Robins. In that context, where some don't even know if Batman exists or is just an urban legend, it's entirely believable that some people could be tricked into thinking there was only one Robin. It was all part of maintaining the Batman illusion.

To that end, while "Jason Todd" was reported killed in an Ethiopian warehouse fire, "Robin" was never reported to have been killed, and only Batman, the Joker, and a few others close to the story originally knew. To the public at large in the DCU, no Robin was ever killed as far as *they* know. Probably because it opens up way too many issues about Batman and child endangerment for the reader to overlook.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I hate the fact that all the Robin's look almost identical with their masks off excluding their heights. They should have at least made one Robin a blonde or have red hair or something. They did it for Flash/Kid Flash/Impulse.

I actually spoke to Dick Giordano, who was in the meeting that created Jason Todd in 1983, about that at a comic con before he passed. He told me that then Titans artist George Prez wanted to make Robin look different by having blonde hair so they did but wrote their way around it having Jason Todd dye his hair. His hair was blonde naturally from Batman#357-#366. To me giving Jason blonde hair like Prez wanted only gave away multiple identities. I guess it was realized and he was given natural black hair afterwards when post-crisis sat in. They gave him the same hair color but a different background than the mimmick background of an orphaned acrobat.

[CyberCubed]

Its possible for the villains not to notice there were multiple Robin's? How? Surely they can figure out the voices/facial structure is a little different not to mention the height?

Surely nobody thought Damian was the same Robin as Tim Drake.

[Leo656]

Again, you have to factor in the idea that the only people who would really be in a position to notice are the main villains who encounter Batman and Robin a lot. They may take up 90% of the stories in the books, but realistically they would only account for about 10-20% of all the crime in Gotham City.

Notice how any bad guys who aren't super-villains are almost always shown as seeing Batman and Robin up close for the first time; they're not in a position to notice or care what Robin looks like, and afterwards they won't remember, as concussions can do that to you.

[CyberCubed]

One thing that always bothers me is how often Batman or Robin were knocked out by the villains and wake up strapped to a chair or something, yet the villains don't take off their masks while they're unconscious to see who they are.

I've lost track how many times Joker has gassed Batman to sleep, yet he never ever peaks behind his mask while he's knocked out. And yet Joker constantly acts like discovering who Batman is would be a great thing yet takes no advantage of it.

[Leo656]

Yeah, that's always just sloppy, lazy writing every time.

Although as far as Joker's concerned, they've repeatedly established that for whatever reason, he entirely doesn't care who Batman is. At all. He has had many chances to find out his identity and goes out of his way NOT to.

I think having Batman be anything but "The Batman" ruins their little "game" in Joker's mind. A recent story showed how Bruce found a Joker playing card in the Batcave very early in his career, strongly implying Joker had at one point found the Cave. Bruce subsequently went to visit Joker in Arkham as Bruce Wayne, and Joker didn't react to him. At that point, Bruce conclusively realized that Joker doesn't care who Batman is behind the mask. He does occasionally ACT like he cares, but that's because he knows Batman is entirely paranoid. "Well, maybe Joker doesn't care... BUT, then again... he MIGHT...." It's all part of the game.

Most other villains would care, though; that's why I hate the "knock out Batman and Robin, detain them, but DON'T unmask them" bit. It's lazy and implausible 99% of the time. Sometimes they bother to show Batman has his mask gimmicked to give an electrical shock to anyone who tries to remove it, but it's rare they bother to go that far and I'd say most people don't know that's a thing.

[CyberCubed]

What villains did find out Bruce was Batman? Hugo Strange is the big one, as well as Ra's and Talia, but I'm pretty sure Catwoman found out too at some point.

Didn't Bane discover it as well after he broke his back?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What villains did find out Bruce was Batman? Hugo Strange is the big one, as well as Ra's and Talia, but I'm pretty sure Catwoman found out too at some point.

Didn't Bane discover it as well after he broke his back?

This is everyone I am aware of:
Hugo Strange-Detective Comics#471
Ra's al Ghul-deduced before 1st appearance in Batman#232
Catwoman pre-crisis(before the events of) Batman#355 and post-crisis Batman#615
Riddler-prior to the events of "Hush"
Hush-prior to the events of "Hush"
Bane-he knows prior to his first appearance as he studies Batman and deduces it
David Caine- the assassin learns in Bruce Wayne:Murderer/ Fugitive
Dr. Hurt aka The Black Glove-between his first appearance in Batman#153 and return in Batman#667.

[Leo656]

Bane figured it out on his own long beforehand.

Catwoman has known off-and-on but somehow usually loses her memory of it.

Being more or less a god I'm sure Darkseid would know, but all humans are lower than worms to him, so he wouldn't care about Batman's secret ID or anyone else's.

Hank Henshaw/Cyborg Superman has all of Superman's powers and more, so if he didn't know, he could find out, but again, probably doesn't care.

The Riddler once figured it out; diagnosed with a brain tumor, he was put into a Lazarus Pit and temporarily gained a heightened sense of knowledge and deductive reasoning. He figured out Bruce was Batman, but decided to save that knowledge for later use. He DID use the knowledge to help Hush organize many of Batman's villains against him in an epic cat-and-mouse game in the "Hush" storyline, but Riddler claimed not to have shared the knowledge with anyone. Hush, however, already knew, being Bruce's childhood friend and having figured it out on his own at some point.

Doctor Hurt/"Thomas Wayne", the mastermind behind The Black Glove in "Batman R.I.P." knew; Thomas Wayne the First was an ancestor of Bruce who was corrupted during a botched Satanic ritual to the demon Barbatos; he apparently gained omnipotence through this, living for hundreds of years to try and kill Batman in the present-day and complete the dark ritual. According to writer/creator Grant Morrison, Hurt/Wayne is in fact The Devil, himself. Some people have argued they don't want to believe that, but Grant created the villain and insists that him being Satan in human form was always the intention from the beginning.

Jezebel Jet was Hurt's pawn in the R.I.P. scheme, pretending to fall in love with Bruce so she could sabotage his mind, creating self-doubt and leaving him vulnerable to The Black Glove's mental attacks and manipulation. So she obviously knew as well.

There were plenty more, I just can't think of them all right now. Suffice to say after 75 years it was bound to slip out a few times.

[The Sewer Lord]

I would like to say making Anarchy into Robin would be a nice move. If he even exists in the New 52.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Catwoman has known off-and-on but somehow usually loses her memory of it.

Yeah, and it's usually in a very lousy way...I remember just pre-crisis, when she was somewhat redeemed and Bruce's on-and-off lover/ally who was in on his secret, she lost her memories and was reverted back to a villian type by The Joker and some electro shock therapy. I don't think the storyline was ever resolved because once the first Crisis was over, the Bat books got "Year One" and boom went Selina's Silver Age history. In this instance, it's because of Barry causing the New 52. Again, no resolution to her and Bruce's current situation where they were getting closer and probably would have finally settled with each other, especially if you factor in how Batman Inc ultimately ends with Bruce losing Damien and Talia. It would have been the perfect way in for Selina.

[Leo656]

I think it's because to the casual mainstream audience, Catwoman is a "villain". Blame how shallow she's been portrayed in most of the TV shows, cartoons, movies etc. "Dark Knight Rises" was about as close as they've come to fully portraying the character. It wasn't perfect (I refuse to make a pun here), but it was way better than the usual, one-note version whose entire motivation begins and ends with her cat fetish (despite the fact her name came from her being a cat BURGLAR, not a crazy cat-lady).

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Zulithe

Damian. Loved the dynamics he brought to the bat family. All the other robins feel so plain compared to him. Course Dick/Nightwing has a lot to offer as well

This. I love his character, too bad they killed him off now.

Seriously wtf were they thinking?

[Zulithe]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

This. I love his character, too bad they killed him off now.

Seriously wtf were they thinking?

Well if the past is anything to go by... he'll return in some form. Maybe it'll be 10 or 20 years but he'll be back!! Not counting the upcoming miniseries about him.

I appreciate the arc Morrison was going for with him, and that he kept him around a lot longer than originally intended, but dammit, he was too good to die! Kill one of the other useless Robins

[CyberCubed]

Damian was killed off probably because they didn't want the idea of a 4th Robin sticking around for long who was Batman's son on top of that. I don't see him returning outside of elseworld tales, unless 20 years from now some writer gets nostalgic or something for Damian Wayne.

DC has pretty much run themselves into a corner with the amount of Robin's they added. Not only is it starting to make Batman look like an idiot, but the aging concept also doesn't make sense, and the idea of Batman letting new Robin's work with him while previous ones get killed doesn't make any sense.

They pulled it off with Tim Drake because he basically forced himself to become Robin, but Batman allowing anyone else to become Robin after Damian will just be idiotic. So Batman loses his son and says, "OK, the Robin job is vacant now, who wants to be my new kid sidekick?" and putting another child's life in danger.

Eventually I can see DC pulling a huge retcon reverting back to the Nightwing and Tim Drake as Robin status quo.