Clarification of Dark Leo and Dark Raph - Page 4

Werecat · 10-26-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Ever since season 1, I really thought they WERE going to go for a "Dark Donnie" angle. You know, with the Tang Shen parallels with him, Casey, and April.

Could still happen, though.

You're right. Shredder wants retromutagen; Donnie is considered sort of the weakest member of the group fighting-wise (Heck, Mikey has TWO weapons!). Growing up, I wonder if Donnie was curious as to why Leo and Raph trained with metal weapons while he was given a stick.

The only way Donnie would join the Foot willingly was if April rejected him, which looks like it's not going to happen after "A Foot Too Big.".....unless there was a huge misunderstanding and Casey lied to Donnie, making him THINK that April didn't want him, but that would be way too douchy on Casey's part.

I actually started a fan fiction awhile back where Donnie goes through something like this. I want to keep writing it, but i have this weird thing about writing AU fan fictions. I like my stories to be as accurate as possible without derailing the original storyline. Still......(sees unfinished documents on computer)

No no no. That plot is extremely offensive. Donnie turning dark just because a girl rejects him. That plot just serves to subliminally tell girls/males that if they reject someone then the person would turn evil and do them harm. Basically herding them into unwanted relationships. You're basically supporting the whole "Girl, if you reject a guy you will die" mentality. Just a poor taste to begin with.

I dunno about you. But shizz like this can be bad for the next generation to get stuck in their head.

A story needs to have a meaning. The Donnie Darko shizz is poor taste and has no reason other then to explore your fantasies. lol Donnie Darko.

I have no clue what they have for this Dark Raph plot. But I know the reason and moral of the story is gonna be about overcoming corruption. There will be no poor tasting subliminal message such as the one present in the whole Dark donnie. Basically reminding me of Twilight, the whole point of the story is to tell girls that their life has no meaning if they don't have a boyfriend.

I think a critically acclaimed author had an opinion about the comparison of Twilight and Harry Potter. It was Stephen King who said this:
“Harry Potter is about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing
what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it
is to have a boyfriend.”

zantha · 10-26-2014, 05:01 PM

April doesn't have to have anything to do with it. Donnie does a lot for the team that only he can do, and I could see him getting frustrated with the lack of appreciation and understanding of all that he does. he is also underestimated by his older brothers as a fighter. if shredder was to offer him a huge lab and show appreciation for his knowledge and skills it could happen. the fic I linked does a good job of really descripting how this would work. I don't think the dark Donnie idea is offensive at all. if all about a girl than it is bad writing, but I don't think it would be for it to have real impact.

*IndigoErth* · 10-26-2014, 06:00 PM

A Dark Donnie could be cool if for the right reasons. Though it could be argued that they all have a habit of not appreciating each other enough. But in a way I suppose it's relateable for many, if not most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werecat

Donnie turning dark just because a girl rejects him. That plot just serves to subliminally tell girls/males that if they reject someone then the person would turn evil and do them harm. Basically herding them into unwanted relationships. You're basically supporting the whole "Girl, if you reject a guy you will die" mentality. Just a poor taste to begin with.

Yeaaahh... avoiding that would be for the best imo. Too much in the news too often already. These damn kids that have decided they can't handle feeling hurt, a normal part of life, and have to get even. Shows should avoid justifying that behavior.

*victory_angel* · 10-26-2014, 06:28 PM

I don't see Donnie accepting the a lab whatever from the Shredder if it's payed for in his families blood. I mean subconsciously he may want that...but he desires to really prove his worth to his family and earning a lab and appreciation from his enemy would feel hollow.

And as people have pointed out Donnie is stretched multiple directions. As he is a ninja strategist, scientist, and engineer first and foremost and on top of that he's family Doctor, handy man, mechanic, plummer, technician, and therapist.
All of which is done with little to no thanks or appreciation.
But some of this can be addressed in the speed demon episode that is coming up and also any other episodes where Donnie is rendered out of commission.

However Raph is more likely to feel enticed by the Shredder. Because Raph has complained that he feels restrained by his family that he'd be better off on his own without them.

And it's that mentality that Slash uses with Raphael before Raph see's what Slash was doing to his brothers. Raph also sometimes makes a mountain out of a mole hill about things. Such as when Donnie nearly blows up the lair in Slash and destroy.

The big difference between the end of metalhead and the beginning of Slash and Destroy is that in Metalhead when Donnie makes that rocket launcher he knew that could potentially have gone off in the lair. It wasn't supposed to but it potentially could. And at worst he probably got yelled at by Raph, a lecture from both Splinter and Leo about how foolish it was to build something so dangerous and then being forced to clean up the damages on his own.

With Slash and Destroy the event was an honest to god accident, Donnie didn't know that reaction would happen and had even gone to see if his family was okay. This doesn't mean Raph shouldn't have been justifiably upset after all Spike had nearly been killed and worse could have happened.
And yes some responsibility did lie with Donnie about that. But at the same result without the events of the rest of the episode at worse it would have been cleaning up the lair and then Donnie and Splinter having a long talk about the evenings events.

However when Donnie is attacked by Slash he says the person who attacked him was like Raph but angrier.

If Donnie was abducted and forced to create retromutagen, he would more then likely omit the fact that April's DNA is key as he would rather take that knowledge to the grave with him then let April be harmed for it.

Shredder also has a habit of not trusting people. He doesn't see people as friends or allies he see's them as tools. And once a person has ceased to have any use they are to be discarded and disposed of. So if Raph is enticed or brain washed into serving the foot, he is going to want to test Raph's effectiveness and loyalty and that test would involve seeing if he would fold if he had to fight one of his brothers. And logically it would make more sense to take out the one the Turtles would have more of an advantage with then without.

Particularly if it is done when Donnie has the retromutagen, because if he's seriously injured when the Retromutagen is taken from him Leo and Mikey are going to focus more on getting Donnie to safety then worrying about the retromutagen.

*Warhorse* · 10-26-2014, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

therapist.

When has he ever shown being a therapist? So far, believe it or not, I see Raph filling that in with his pep talks. Donnie is too unstable to be a therapist for anyone.

*victory_angel* · 10-26-2014, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

When has he ever shown being a therapist? So far, believe it or not, I see Raph filling that in with his pep talks. Donnie is too unstable to be a therapist for anyone.

When I mean therapist in the sense of someone to go to when you have something you need to talk about and you just need someone who would listen to you.

If want someone to pull you out of your funk then Raph is your Turtle. But you need someone who is a listener then Donnie it the one you want.

In the end of Enemy of my Enemy there is a moment where Donnie notices Leo is down in the dumps about Karai and he does attempt to comfort his brother by pointing out the positive outcome.

In fungus humongous where Casey is talking to Raph and April is talking to Donnie about what they had experienced. Raph is too exhausted to give a care about Casey so he sits with a paper over his face barely listening. But Donnie sits next to April and he's listening to her even though he has an ice pack to his head and h looks like he needs to go lie down somewhere.

And while Leo was unconscious Donnie may very well have had some moments as a physical therapist. With coma patients there are physical therapists who come in and do massage work on the patient to make sure the joints don't ware away to nothing due to lack of use. And this is something I could see Donnie doing. Or Donnie at least instructing Raph in doing.

*Warhorse* · 10-26-2014, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

When I mean therapist in the sense of someone to go to when you have something you need to talk about and you just need someone who would listen to you.

If want someone to pull you out of your funk then Raph is your Turtle. But you need someone who is a listener then Donnie it the one you want.

In the end of Enemy of my Enemy there is a moment where Donnie notices Leo is down in the dumps about Karai and he does attempt to comfort his brother by pointing out the positive outcome.

In fungus humongous where Casey is talking to Raph and April is talking to Donnie about what they had experienced. Raph is too exhausted to give a care about Casey so he sits with a paper over his face barely listening. But Donnie sits next to April and he's listening to her even though he has an ice pack to his head and h looks like he needs to go lie down somewhere.

And while Leo was unconscious Donnie may very well have had some moments as a physical therapist. With coma patients there are physical therapists who come in and do massage work on the patient to make sure the joints don't ware away to nothing due to lack of use. And this is something I could see Donnie doing. Or Donnie at least instructing Raph in doing.

Sorry, I disagree. Donnie is still the least likely Turtle. I'd go to Mikey before I would go to Donnie. In this version anyways. There is a reason why Mikey is the heart of the team. Why do you think April was quick to talk to Casey about her mom, or Leo, and not Donnie?

*Luckyday* · 10-26-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Sorry, I disagree. Donnie is still the least likely Turtle. I'd go to Mikey before I would go to Donnie. In this version anyways. There is a reason why Mikey is the heart of the team. Why do you think April was quick to talk to Casey about her mom, or Leo, and not Donnie?

Maybe because she didn't want to say how her mom feels about them? She was making April decide who her real family was.

*victory_angel* · 10-26-2014, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Sorry, I disagree. Donnie is still the least likely Turtle. I'd go to Mikey before I would go to Donnie. In this version anyways. There is a reason why Mikey is the heart of the team. Why do you think April was quick to talk to Casey about her mom, or Leo, and not Donnie?

With the mom thing April spoke to Casey about it because he would understand the need to be with family particularly with one she has not seen since she was a small child.

And if she wanted to be with he mom then they shouldn't stop her from doing that. But the Turtles they have never had a mom before, the only parent they've had was a father figure and he's gone. So in a way they had wanted to think of April's mother as their mom as well.

So if April had gone to one of the Turtles particularly Donnie they would have felt sad at the rejection and they would have told April that they understood if she wanted to go because this is her family. But Donnie would also make a plea for her stay.

*Warhorse* · 10-26-2014, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

With the mom thing April spoke to Casey about it because he would understand the need to be with family particularly with one she has not seen since she was a small child.

And if she wanted to be with he mom then they shouldn't stop her from doing that. But the Turtles they have never had a mom before, the only parent they've had was a father figure and he's gone. So in a way they had wanted to think of April's mother as their mom as well.

So if April had gone to one of the Turtles particularly Donnie they would have felt sad at the rejection and they would have told April that they understood if she wanted to go because this is her family. But Donnie would also make a plea for her stay.

Regardless, it was still Leo who held out his hand in support, and that is more theraputic for April than anything Donnie has done. I stand by what I said. Donnie may wear many hats, but therapist is not one of them, not by a long shot!

PangolinFeets · 10-26-2014, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Regardless, it was still Leo who held out his hand in support, and that is more theraputic for April than anything Donnie has done. I stand by what I said. Donnie may wear many hats, but therapist is not one of them, not by a long shot!

I agree with you there. I love Donnie, but he's definitely more of the physical nurturer than emotional. I feel like he's the one to keep a cool head when there's a medical problem because he's comfortable with his science and numbers. Feelings are obviously a little harder for him to grasp.

*IndigoErth* · 10-26-2014, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

I agree with you there. I love Donnie, but he's definitely more of the physical nurturer than emotional. I feel like he's the one to keep a cool head when there's a medical problem because he's comfortable with his science and numbers. Feelings are obviously a little harder for him to grasp.

Yeah, I could see Donnie doing well with med school. He'd be the one out there fixing you up and finding cures for disease.

Spoiler:

*ssjup81* · 10-27-2014, 12:12 AM

I could see Donnie as a listener, not the one to give out advice, as Raph or Mikey probably would be good for that. There are different types of therapists, though. I feel that it'd be in-character for Donnie to just listen if someone needs to be complained to. I dunno, I got that vibe in Of Mice and Men with Mikey hanging around Donnie in his lab. Donnie can multitask after all.

*Vicky82* · 10-27-2014, 12:04 PM

Minae Noji has a secret role in the show so I wonder if her character (maybe Ninjara) could be involved in the Dark Raph Storyline.

aliena · 10-28-2014, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Ever since i saw the concept art for "Speed Demon" and the "China Town" episode, I'm sort of wondering how much supernatural stuff exists in this universe. We already know that ghosts can be trapped in daggers and use "special martial arts that look like magic" to give special abilities to their minions. And according to what people have been saying, this "speed demon" is Donnie possessed, not double mutated.

So....I wonder what made Donatello turn into a reptilian version of Rat Fink?

Reason why I bring this up is I wonder if that's the angle they're going to use with Dark Raph. Let's say there was some mystical artifact or token that was attached to the car (hood ornament, bobble head, etc.) and Donnie comes in contact with it, which ends up controlling him and possesses his body.

Now let's say there's more than one of these tokens. And each token represents a different demon connected with a particular emotion.

For example, let's say that the token attached to the car Donnie finds represents pride. Since we still don't know what the writers are planning with this love triangle, maybe Donatello still feels the need to find a way to impress April. So while search for parts at a nearby junk heap, Donnie finds this snazzy car and decides to use it to impress April. With his brother's help, he gets it home and starts to work on it, only to find it eating away at his mind and making him obsessed with it. Ok, maybe PRIDE isn't a good one to use. I dunno....greed? Self-absorbtion?

Anyway, you get what I'm saying with that.

Now, about Raphael. What if the other token we find is connected to rage? Anger? And when Raphael reaches a certain limit of anger, it activates the token and it possesses his mind? Like, he's still Raph, but all the darkness and hatred inside Raphael is in control.

We all have good and bad in us. Like someone said, maybe a Jekyll and Hyde thing is going on here. (I ALWAYS loved those types of stories!) But even though Raph has his anger issues, he always knew when he went too far and does have a good heart. But what if the said-token cut off that part of him? Can you imagine a Rpahael without a conscience or self-control?

Just a plot bunny. I actually have a better idea for what the Speed Demon episode will be about, but it would be neat if some artifact was on the car.

You ideas are marvelous! I'd love to see all of that happen. I get a feeling that somehow when Donnie is possessed that this will bring about April's feelings and possibly she will finally become his girlfriend, or tell him she doesn't want to be his girlfriend. Hopefully, it will finally be resolved. This storyline could be a homage to the book, and movie, Christine.

The thing that I love about your idea about Raph is that it just fits so perfectly with what might happen to him. I can just imagine him telling people exactly how he feels about whatever, April to Donatello, Leo getting injured, Mikey being a goofball, and just destroying relationships by doing that. It kind of reminds me of Angel on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He lost his soul and a demon moved in. He said, and did, horrible things to people. It took a long time to rebuild trust.

However...to push a bit further with your idea of the tokens, what if one of them is for Mikey and it has to do with love? That could be why he falls for Renet, because honestly, I can't see Mikey falling in love and being all romantically mushy with a girl. I just can't see that now as his character is. Maybe if they matured him up a lot and made him more like the movie Mikey, not sure I want that either, then I could maybe see it.

I just think if he gets obsessed with her to a point of being out of control, that could be a demon at work there too. On a side thought, doesn't Renet time travel or something? Could she be the key to saving Raph?

That just leaves Leo. Will he also have a token episode too and could these tokens coincide with the vision quest episodes? If Leo does get an emotion, what would it be? You've opened up lots of ideas in my head now.

*victory_angel* · 10-28-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliena

You ideas are marvelous! I'd love to see all of that happen. I get a feeling that somehow when Donnie is possessed that this will bring about April's feelings and possibly she will finally become his girlfriend, or tell him she doesn't want to be his girlfriend. Hopefully, it will finally be resolved. This storyline could be a homage to the book, and movie, Christine.

The thing that I love about your idea about Raph is that it just fits so perfectly with what might happen to him. I can just imagine him telling people exactly how he feels about whatever, April to Donatello, Leo getting injured, Mikey being a goofball, and just destroying relationships by doing that. It kind of reminds me of Angel on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He lost his soul and a demon moved in. He said, and did, horrible things to people. It took a long time to rebuild trust.

However...to push a bit further with your idea of the tokens, what if one of them is for Mikey and it has to do with love? That could be why he falls for Renet, because honestly, I can't see Mikey falling in love and being all romantically mushy with a girl. I just can't see that now as his character is. Maybe if they matured him up a lot and made him more like the movie Mikey, not sure I want that either, then I could maybe see it.

I just think if he gets obsessed with her to a point of being out of control, that could be a demon at work there too. On a side thought, doesn't Renet time travel or something? Could she be the key to saving Raph?

That just leaves Leo. Will he also have a token episode too and could these tokens coincide with the vision quest episodes? If Leo does get an emotion, what would it be? You've opened up lots of ideas in my head now.

The tokens bitsy talks about sound like the seven deadly sins.

Pride
Sloth
Lust
Envy
Greed
Wrath
Gluttony

Pride being Donnie's sin because the takes pride in what he does and what he has been able to do. However I don't think this is his fatal sin.
Lust and Envy might be more of flaw with him then pride.
We know he loves April or lusts after her is the better way of describing it. Now when Donnie is just being himself as a friend to April he's more endearing but when he's trying to get April to notice him or impress her he really doesn't do himself any favors.
And Envy because Casey is human and thus able to do things and be places with April that he can't because he's a turtle . And just seeing April giving Casey any sort of affection does hit a sore spot with him because it reminds him that April has a very slim chance of choosing him. And a token or something that can enhance these flaws can destroy any hope of April being his girlfriend or Casey being his friend.

Raphs fatal sins will be wrath and envy. Wrath because of how quick he is to anger and the intensity of said anger. And being envious of Leo and maybe Donnie being "Splinter's prized students" while he is the strongest and gets little praise for it.

*Warhorse* · 10-28-2014, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

The tokens bitsy talks about sound like the seven deadly sins.

Pride
Sloth
Lust
Envy
Greed
Wrath
Gluttony

Pride being Donnie's sin because the takes pride in what he does and what he has been able to do. However I don't think this is his fatal sin.
Lust and Envy might be more of flaw with him then pride.
We know he loves April or lusts after her is the better way of describing it. Now when Donnie is just being himself as a friend to April he's more endearing but when he's trying to get April to notice him or impress her he really doesn't do himself any favors.
And Envy because Casey is human and thus able to do things and be places with April that he can't because he's a turtle . And just seeing April giving Casey any sort of affection does hit a sore spot with him because it reminds him that April has a very slim chance of choosing him. And a token or something that can enhance these flaws can destroy any hope of April being his girlfriend or Casey being his friend.

Raphs fatal sins will be wrath and envy. Wrath because of how quick he is to anger and the intensity of said anger. And being envious of Leo and maybe Donnie being "Splinter's prized students" while he is the strongest and gets little praise for it.

I would actually put Pride as a major sin for Raph. Whenever his pride is blown, that is when he loses his temper and strikes. And it's very hard for him to admit he is wrong about something and to say he is sorry when he is wrong. In this incarnation, I am not sensing any sort of envy with him, at all! Not in the slightest.

jenna · 10-31-2014, 06:00 AM

I would hope that the writers would tackle this arc in a way in which Raphael can learn a lesson and grow as a character.

If he is simply captured and brainwashed he is a victim and bears no responsibility in whatever happens.

I would be much more interested in seeing an evil character exploit Raphael's bitterness and rage, facilitating a conscious decision to act, rather than have him acting outside of his own control. That way he would have a lesson to learn, something to regret and would have to deal with the consequences of his actions.

I don't for a minute think that Raphael would voluntarily align himself with the Shredder, but I would be interested in seeing a plot where he is pushed so far by circumstances (grief over Splinter?) that he responds to it really badly.

In any Raphael-centric arc I really want to see him confront his demons. He can only confront them if he is at first destroyed / corrupted by them. I want to see him pushed to the edge, fall off the precipice, and then put the broken pieces together and develop as a character as a result.

*victory_angel* · 10-31-2014, 04:56 PM

They seem to building up Raph's relationships with his brothers of and on through out the series.

Mikey calms Raph's anger while Leo either encourages it or blows it back. Recently they have has some subtle growth between Raph and Donnie. Such as when that guilty look that is on Raph's face when April tells him that Donnie had spent the whole night trying to revive him.

Spoiler:

Or the way that Raph was trying to cheer Donnie up by suggesting they do a little forest training.

Spoiler:

We know from the Vision Quests
that Raph is Fire, Leo is Wind, Mikey is Forest, and Donnie is Mountain.

Wind can fan flames or blow them back. Sometimes it carries fire to spread it further.

The forest can be damaged by fire, but the fire nourishes the forest enabling it to grow back stronger and better then before.

Mountains can block fire as well as contain fire. However fire can also destroy the mountain completely or build it anew.

So perhaps Donnie is being built as the one who will bring Raph back to himself. But he will be severely injured when Mount St. Raphy erupts, or he will be injured when he's containing the blaze.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 11-01-2014, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werecat

No no no. That plot is extremely offensive. Donnie turning dark just because a girl rejects him. That plot just serves to subliminally tell girls/males that if they reject someone then the person would turn evil and do them harm. Basically herding them into unwanted relationships. You're basically supporting the whole "Girl, if you reject a guy you will die" mentality. Just a poor taste to begin with.

I dunno about you. But shizz like this can be bad for the next generation to get stuck in their head.

A story needs to have a meaning. The Donnie Darko shizz is poor taste and has no reason other then to explore your fantasies. lol Donnie Darko.

I have no clue what they have for this Dark Raph plot. But I know the reason and moral of the story is gonna be about overcoming corruption. There will be no poor tasting subliminal message such as the one present in the whole Dark donnie. Basically reminding me of Twilight, the whole point of the story is to tell girls that their life has no meaning if they don't have a boyfriend.

This is simply not true. The idea of rejected suitors going bad is NOT new, nor is it restricted to the likes of Twilight, either. The idea of the jilted would-be lover turning against the object of affection has been around for centuries- Greek mythology did it, Gaston Leroux did it with Phantom of the Opera, and it was even done with Bride of Frankenstein. And that's just for starters. It's not about telling girls that they can't reject someone they don't love or who is already clearly unstable just because "they might hurt you if you do", it's about how obsession can take over a person and cause them to do things that are utterly evil, or that they end up regretting.

A lot of the Greek tragedies are exactly like that. Like the story od Hermaphrodite- he wanted a nymph so badly he prayed to Aphrodite to allow him to be with her forever- even though she wanted nothing to do with him. As punishment for his hubris, the goddess made him PART of her, so that he became half male, half female. She made his wish literal. And there are many others similar to that. There have been obsessed lovers in fiction for as long as people have been telling stories.

So it's not this simple, trite (and inaccurate) message you believe. Twilight was bad because the choices Bella was given were only between two guys, neither of whom was really worthy. The story neglected a third choice completely- to be a strong, independent woman who didn't need either one! It was the character herself that was a weak, needy DID trope, not any fault of the situation, or of the female gender in general. She was badly written, as were most of the characters. That's why that story came off as making girls seem weak and unable to stand on their own without a man to take care of them.

10-26-2014, 05:01 PM	#62
zantha Random Punk Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 37	April doesn't have to have anything to do with it. Donnie does a lot for the team that only he can do, and I could see him getting frustrated with the lack of appreciation and understanding of all that he does. he is also underestimated by his older brothers as a fighter. if shredder was to offer him a huge lab and show appreciation for his knowledge and skills it could happen. the fic I linked does a good job of really descripting how this would work. I don't think the dark Donnie idea is offensive at all. if all about a girl than it is bad writing, but I don't think it would be for it to have real impact. __________________ 24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb...alsgo1_250.gif

10-26-2014, 06:28 PM	#64
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	I don't see Donnie accepting the a lab whatever from the Shredder if it's payed for in his families blood. I mean subconsciously he may want that...but he desires to really prove his worth to his family and earning a lab and appreciation from his enemy would feel hollow. And as people have pointed out Donnie is stretched multiple directions. As he is a ninja strategist, scientist, and engineer first and foremost and on top of that he's family Doctor, handy man, mechanic, plummer, technician, and therapist. All of which is done with little to no thanks or appreciation. But some of this can be addressed in the speed demon episode that is coming up and also any other episodes where Donnie is rendered out of commission. However Raph is more likely to feel enticed by the Shredder. Because Raph has complained that he feels restrained by his family that he'd be better off on his own without them. And it's that mentality that Slash uses with Raphael before Raph see's what Slash was doing to his brothers. Raph also sometimes makes a mountain out of a mole hill about things. Such as when Donnie nearly blows up the lair in Slash and destroy. The big difference between the end of metalhead and the beginning of Slash and Destroy is that in Metalhead when Donnie makes that rocket launcher he knew that could potentially have gone off in the lair. It wasn't supposed to but it potentially could. And at worst he probably got yelled at by Raph, a lecture from both Splinter and Leo about how foolish it was to build something so dangerous and then being forced to clean up the damages on his own. With Slash and Destroy the event was an honest to god accident, Donnie didn't know that reaction would happen and had even gone to see if his family was okay. This doesn't mean Raph shouldn't have been justifiably upset after all Spike had nearly been killed and worse could have happened. And yes some responsibility did lie with Donnie about that. But at the same result without the events of the rest of the episode at worse it would have been cleaning up the lair and then Donnie and Splinter having a long talk about the evenings events. However when Donnie is attacked by Slash he says the person who attacked him was like Raph but angrier. If Donnie was abducted and forced to create retromutagen, he would more then likely omit the fact that April's DNA is key as he would rather take that knowledge to the grave with him then let April be harmed for it. Shredder also has a habit of not trusting people. He doesn't see people as friends or allies he see's them as tools. And once a person has ceased to have any use they are to be discarded and disposed of. So if Raph is enticed or brain washed into serving the foot, he is going to want to test Raph's effectiveness and loyalty and that test would involve seeing if he would fold if he had to fight one of his brothers. And logically it would make more sense to take out the one the Turtles would have more of an advantage with then without. Particularly if it is done when Donnie has the retromutagen, because if he's seriously injured when the Retromutagen is taken from him Leo and Mikey are going to focus more on getting Donnie to safety then worrying about the retromutagen. __________________

10-27-2014, 12:04 PM	#74
Vicky82 Emperor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dunstable, UK Posts: 5,805	Minae Noji has a secret role in the show so I wonder if her character (maybe Ninjara) could be involved in the Dark Raph Storyline. __________________ My heart!!!! One of my favourite moments.

10-31-2014, 04:56 PM	#79
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	They seem to building up Raph's relationships with his brothers of and on through out the series. Mikey calms Raph's anger while Leo either encourages it or blows it back. Recently they have has some subtle growth between Raph and Donnie. Such as when that guilty look that is on Raph's face when April tells him that Donnie had spent the whole night trying to revive him. Spoiler: [IMG]http://screencapped.net/animation/tmnt/albums/userpics/10002/normal_T MNT3_01_1183.jpg[/IMG] Or the way that Raph was trying to cheer Donnie up by suggesting they do a little forest training. Spoiler: We know from the Vision Quests that Raph is Fire, Leo is Wind, Mikey is Forest, and Donnie is Mountain. Wind can fan flames or blow them back. Sometimes it carries fire to spread it further. The forest can be damaged by fire, but the fire nourishes the forest enabling it to grow back stronger and better then before. Mountains can block fire as well as contain fire. However fire can also destroy the mountain completely or build it anew. So perhaps Donnie is being built as the one who will bring Raph back to himself. But he will be severely injured when Mount St. Raphy erupts, or he will be injured when he's containing the blaze. __________________

10-27-2014, 12:12 AM	#73
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,734	I could see Donnie as a listener, not the one to give out advice, as Raph or Mikey probably would be good for that. There are different types of therapists, though. I feel that it'd be in-character for Donnie to just listen if someone needs to be complained to. I dunno, I got that vibe in Of Mice and Men with Mikey hanging around Donnie in his lab. Donnie can multitask after all.

10-31-2014, 06:00 AM	#78
jenna Mad Scientist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,190	I would hope that the writers would tackle this arc in a way in which Raphael can learn a lesson and grow as a character. If he is simply captured and brainwashed he is a victim and bears no responsibility in whatever happens. I would be much more interested in seeing an evil character exploit Raphael's bitterness and rage, facilitating a conscious decision to act, rather than have him acting outside of his own control. That way he would have a lesson to learn, something to regret and would have to deal with the consequences of his actions. I don't for a minute think that Raphael would voluntarily align himself with the Shredder, but I would be interested in seeing a plot where he is pushed so far by circumstances (grief over Splinter?) that he responds to it really badly. In any Raphael-centric arc I really want to see him confront his demons. He can only confront them if he is at first destroyed / corrupted by them. I want to see him pushed to the edge, fall off the precipice, and then put the broken pieces together and develop as a character as a result.