Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep20: "Tale of the Yokai" - Page 4

OrangeNinja1987 · 08-09-2015, 02:48 PM

Beautiful episode! It played out pretty much exactly as I imagined, and it was perfect! I feel like I need to put an exclamation point on every sentence!
First off, I really loved this backstory on Saki/Yoshi/Shen, and how it was made a lot more complex than previous tellings in the show. The final fight was intense and very well done. Oddly, Shredder didn't feel like a very bad guy until the last few minutes. Great accomplishment showing his side a bit more.
I loved that it was explained that the Hamato clan was the last surviving ninja clan and that they weren't needed any more. I had been feeling that the show sorely needed an explanation for ninja in the 21st century.
Very few problems with this episode, pretty much only that Shredder's voice seemed off. I expected that some of his voice's deep resoundingness (is that a word?) came from the echoes inside his metal helmet, or perhaps from injuries from the fire. I wish they'd altered his voice so that he sounded
more like a normal human before. I think he probably got his American accent and fluency in English from travel, because he seems to know his way around NYC well for someone, who in the show's timeline, has only lived there about a year.
Loved baby Miwa tugging on Leo's bandana.
My absolute favorite part was when the turtles were pretending to be kappa. The creepy vibe and the visuals in that scene were probably some of the best I've ever seen in the show. The best line of the episode was Leo saying "We will suck out your souls...through your BUTT!"
By the way, that is really part of Japanese mythology. The writers must have done their research.
I'm just confused as to why everyone spoke English most of the episode. In Japan, it is not a skill everyone has to speak fluent English, because it is not taught well or often enough. Whenever the Japanese characters spoke English when they weren't around the turtles, I always imagined they were speaking Japanese. I have a feeling the turtles know at least enough Japanese from Splinter. I really want to see them speak it more.
My rating: 9.5/10

*Vicky82* · 08-09-2015, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

So yeah, good episode. Just a couple of nitpicks.

How come Shredder didn't recognise the Turtles back in season 1 if the timeline was always this way?
Why didn't they show Shredder learning of his heiritage?
Why did those ninjas join the foot so quickly?
Did Mikey really have to act so goofy in this episode? I know he's typically very goofy, but I think they should have toned him down here.

Also, is it just me or does some events as shown here put some of Splinter's previous statements into question? I can remember Splinter having said something like "she was never yours" in regards to Shredder having been with Tang Shen, but here Tang Shen does not deny having been with Shredder.

1. The turtles were wearing costumes when he first sees them, and the 2nd and 3rd time it was in the dark so he wouldn't have seen them very well.
2. Probably cut due to timing.
3. Unsure
4. Mikey was acting goofy in the 1st half of the episode, they had to put some laughs in for a dark episode. He did tone down and got serious later when the dojo was burning down, Tang Shen dieing and when they silently left when Splinter was screaming out.

*CyberCubed* · 08-09-2015, 02:51 PM

I'm surprised they didn't explain how Yoshi got the "Splinter" nickname. In this version he was called Splinter before the Turtles met him, so I guess it was just some old nickname Saki used to call him?

*TurtleTitan97* · 08-09-2015, 02:57 PM

Man, this episode gave me so many feels. Best one of the series by far.

tmntfanuk · 08-09-2015, 02:58 PM

Awesome episode! One of the very best in a long, long time.

I wanted more. A two-parter would have been epic!

*CyberCubed* · 08-09-2015, 03:00 PM

Anyone think its odd the Turtles just left Shen's body in the building to burn? The least they could have done is dragged her body out next to Yoshi.

*Vicky82* · 08-09-2015, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Anyone think its odd the Turtles just left Shen's body in the building to burn? The least they could have done is dragged her body out next to Yoshi.

They probably did bring her out but done off screen, this episode was pretty dark anyway and Peter Di Cicco said that stuff was cut out due to timing and being too dark.

PangolinFeets · 08-09-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeNinja1987

I'm just confused as to why everyone spoke English most of the episode. In Japan, it is not a skill everyone has to speak fluent English, because it is not taught well or often enough. Whenever the Japanese characters spoke English when they weren't around the turtles, I always imagined they were speaking Japanese. I have a feeling the turtles know at least enough Japanese from Splinter. I really want to see them speak it more.
My rating: 9.5/10

They don't want to put in more subtitles than necessary (Or hire VAs fluent in Japanese). I'm sure a large part of the viewer base are kids with varying levels of limited reading skills and they're not about to exclude them for accuracy. Besides, I can imagine watching our current group of VAs straining to pronounce big chunks of Japanese dialogue accurately would be painful...and would likely slow down the snails-pace that the episodes are being produced at.

I'm convinced they speak Japanese fine. I don't need it illustrated.

Toadtrooper · 08-09-2015, 03:17 PM

"Show, don't tell" only applies to things that actually need to be shown.

Instead, we get 22 minutes of exposition to set up one time-travel convenience that doesn't make sense. Yeah, they're trying to say the Turtles saved Hamato Yoshi, but who did they displace? It refuses to answer how Hamato was saved before the Turtles even existed.

Because if the answer is some vague, mythical Yokai, then this episode never needed to happen, and it was just a way to spend 22 more minutes on something we already know. With a weird, unnecessary twist. Or basically Into The Woods: TMNT Edition.

Hall of Shame goes to Tang Shen, who not only left a helpless baby on the ground to run into a burning building, but ran in front of an angry man with a deadly weapon. Not heroic. Stupid. Between her and ditsy Renet, writer fails at writing women. I'm assuming it's just Randolph Heard. He's really nothing to write home about.

And Ciro can fangirl about his darker version the same way Trank can fangirl about "his" version of Fantastic Four. I don't care about fangirling when the entire thing deserves to be on the cutting room floor.

OrangeNinja1987 · 08-09-2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

They don't want to put in more subtitles than necessary (Or hire VAs fluent in Japanese). I'm sure a large part of the viewer base are kids with varying levels of limited reading skills and they're not about to exclude them for accuracy. Besides, I can imagine watching our current group of VAs straining to pronounce big chunks of Japanese dialogue accurately would be painful...and would likely slow down the snails-pace that the episodes are being produced at.

I'm convinced they speak Japanese fine. I don't need it illustrated.

oh, I know why they spoke English the entire episode. It wouldn't be practical on any level. But for a higher level of believability, I just wish it had a bit more Japanese, and the turtles speaking some. I'm trying to learn the language so it would have been cool to hear it a bit more. The English didn't ruin anything for me and it was necessary, though.

*TurtleTitan97* · 08-09-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

And Ciro can fangirl about his darker version the same way Trank can fangirl about "his" version of Fantastic Four. I don't care about fangirling when the entire thing deserves to be on the cutting room floor.

Are you seriously comparing this AMAZING episode to that sorry excuse for a movie?

That's just unbelievable.

*Vicky82* · 08-09-2015, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

"Show, don't tell" only applies to things that actually need to be shown.

Instead, we get 22 minutes of exposition to set up one time-travel convenience that doesn't make sense. Yeah, they're trying to say the Turtles saved Hamato Yoshi, but who did they displace? It refuses to answer how Hamato was saved before the Turtles even existed.

I bet you didn't watch Gargoyles did you, they had a couple of episodes that focused on Time Travel. 1 character was shown falling to his death but was saved by his future self but that character had to do the same thing so it goes in a loop. Also there was another episode similar to that. You need to watch them the episodes are Avalon part 1 to 3 and M.I.A. There was also the episode Vows.

*JTH* · 08-09-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

Instead, we get 22 minutes of exposition to set up one time-travel convenience that doesn't make sense. Yeah, they're trying to say the Turtles saved Hamato Yoshi, but who did they displace? It refuses to answer how Hamato was saved before the Turtles even existed.

Don't you get it?

They didn't displace anybody. It was always them, that was the whole point.

Donatello even stated during the episode that there had to be some reason why of all times and places, why then and there. Because it was always them who saved Splinter that day.

They didn't take over the role of anybody else, it was always them. That was made that very clear at the end. They learned what happened based on what they were told by Splinter in the past, then being they ended up there, to perserve their own present, everything had to happen again, and they couldn't interfere with what happened based on what they knew.

*Raph's Girl* · 08-09-2015, 03:41 PM

This ep was awesome!! I love that they actually acknowledge Teng Shen's Chinese heritage (her grandfather). Also we got to meet Yoshi's father, Hamato Yotai and learned Saki's father's name as well, Kaiji.

Karai looks alot like her mom.

Also, One min Leo's like "WTF is a Kappa" and next min seems to know about the Kappa sucking the soul's of people via their butt's (actually that's the NICE way of saying it).

*Powder* · 08-09-2015, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky82

So something got cut.

My guess is Shredder killing his adoptive father.

*CyberCubed* · 08-09-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

Because if the answer is some vague, mythical Yokai, then this episode never needed to happen, and it was just a way to spend 22 more minutes on something we already know. With a weird, unnecessary twist. Or basically Into The Woods: TMNT Edition.

Who didn't want to see an episode with Saki and Yoshi in the past?

Quote:

Hall of Shame goes to Tang Shen, who not only left a helpless baby on the ground to run into a burning building, but ran in front of an angry man with a deadly weapon. Not heroic. Stupid. Between her and ditsy Renet, writer fails at writing women. I'm assuming it's just Randolph Heard. He's really nothing to write home about.

LOL, now I know you're trolling. You're wondering why Shen left a baby on the ground? You expected her to run into a burning building with a baby in her arms? What kind of logic are you working on?

And of course she's going to run inbetween Shredder and Yoshi, what else is she going to do? Also laughably claiming the writers aren't writing women well when Tang Shen and Renet are exactly the same way in Mirage is idiotic. Tang Shen's fate is to die, Renet has always been a ditzy bimbo.

There always has to be that "one guy" who craps over something for no reason.

909 Turtle Fan · 08-09-2015, 03:51 PM

Sweet episode, I like cucumber with lemon and tajin. It was cool how there was no music during the fight between Yoshi and Saki until it the end, the music is one of my favorite parts of this show. Great voice acting in this one too. I wish they would still do previews for the next weeks episode, it feels off when they don't. Oh yeah, funny ish when Leo says we'll steal your souls through your butt

Toadtrooper · 08-09-2015, 03:56 PM

The only show that's ever done time travel convincingly was Misfits. First, they explained the time travel as a one-time-use, acquired, and subjective power, not a scientific possibility to be reused over and over whenever convenient.

Then they had characters written well enough to make the entire thing both believable and tragic.

Without the Turtles meeting the Yokai that saved Hamato the first time, the episode is pointless. It never justifies why the Turtles being there is important.

If Oroku Saki had straight-up murdered the original Yokai and the Turtles had to intervene to preserve the original event, then you have a story to work with. And if that's what the network prevented from happening, then the whole episode should have been shelved and never released.

So, yes, not quite unlike Fantastic Four.

PangolinFeets · 08-09-2015, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

Instead, we get 22 minutes of exposition to set up one time-travel convenience that doesn't make sense. Yeah, they're trying to say the Turtles saved Hamato Yoshi, but who did they displace? It refuses to answer how Hamato was saved before the Turtles even existed.

I guess you've never heard of a Bootstrap Paradox.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ca...backwards/#3.1

aliena · 08-09-2015, 04:00 PM

It's a relief to get two great episodes in a row. The thing I wanted the most to happen I got. Leo holding Karai was so sweet. I liked it when Mikey saved them with a smoke bomb and then told us he saved them. That had to be a wink directed to us by the writers. Mikey eating the cucumbers was really cute. I wonder if he'll keep eating them in the present.

I did wish they could have taken Karai away from Shredder, but who is to say that she would be the same person she was in the present if she had been raised by Splinter?

And lastly, will we really ever see Renet again? That's not much of a love interest for Mikey if he only has her for 1 episode.

View Poll Results: Oh dear, Is this going to be a string of Deus Ex Reneta?
Alas Poor Shen, we knew ye for too short a time...	17	22.08%
This could have been an amazing two-parter if we'd seen Shredder learn about his past.	14	18.18%
We will steal your soul through your BUTT!!!	34	44.16%
Wait, Yoshi was a jerk and Saki was nice in the beginning...?	8	10.39%
I like the art from "The tale of the Kappa"	4	5.19%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

08-09-2015, 02:48 PM	#61
OrangeNinja1987 Foot Soldier Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 223	Beautiful episode! It played out pretty much exactly as I imagined, and it was perfect! I feel like I need to put an exclamation point on every sentence! First off, I really loved this backstory on Saki/Yoshi/Shen, and how it was made a lot more complex than previous tellings in the show. The final fight was intense and very well done. Oddly, Shredder didn't feel like a very bad guy until the last few minutes. Great accomplishment showing his side a bit more. I loved that it was explained that the Hamato clan was the last surviving ninja clan and that they weren't needed any more. I had been feeling that the show sorely needed an explanation for ninja in the 21st century. Very few problems with this episode, pretty much only that Shredder's voice seemed off. I expected that some of his voice's deep resoundingness (is that a word?) came from the echoes inside his metal helmet, or perhaps from injuries from the fire. I wish they'd altered his voice so that he sounded more like a normal human before. I think he probably got his American accent and fluency in English from travel, because he seems to know his way around NYC well for someone, who in the show's timeline, has only lived there about a year. Loved baby Miwa tugging on Leo's bandana. My absolute favorite part was when the turtles were pretending to be kappa. The creepy vibe and the visuals in that scene were probably some of the best I've ever seen in the show. The best line of the episode was Leo saying "We will suck out your souls...through your BUTT!" By the way, that is really part of Japanese mythology. The writers must have done their research. I'm just confused as to why everyone spoke English most of the episode. In Japan, it is not a skill everyone has to speak fluent English, because it is not taught well or often enough. Whenever the Japanese characters spoke English when they weren't around the turtles, I always imagined they were speaking Japanese. I have a feeling the turtles know at least enough Japanese from Splinter. I really want to see them speak it more. My rating: 9.5/10 __________________ DON: We've got to find that bomb! And we've only got eight minutes to do it! RAPH: Excuse me; is that including the commercial break? - 1987 For TMNT art and more, check out OrangeNinja1987 on Deviantart! http://orangeninja1987.deviantart.com/ To help with a current TMNT project: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=53441 Proud fan of the TMNT 2014 movie

08-09-2015, 02:57 PM	#64
TurtleTitan97 Space Cowboy Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Speed Force Posts: 7,043	Man, this episode gave me so many feels. Best one of the series by far. __________________

08-09-2015, 03:41 PM	#74
Raph's Girl Dierna Soul, Reporter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jakku Posts: 10,831	This ep was awesome!! I love that they actually acknowledge Teng Shen's Chinese heritage (her grandfather). Also we got to meet Yoshi's father, Hamato Yotai and learned Saki's father's name as well, Kaiji. Karai looks alot like her mom. Also, One min Leo's like "WTF is a Kappa" and next min seems to know about the Kappa sucking the soul's of people via their butt's (actually that's the NICE way of saying it). __________________

08-09-2015, 03:51 PM	#77
909 Turtle Fan Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2008 Location: Eastbound & Down Posts: 477	Sweet episode, I like cucumber with lemon and tajin. It was cool how there was no music during the fight between Yoshi and Saki until it the end, the music is one of my favorite parts of this show. Great voice acting in this one too. I wish they would still do previews for the next weeks episode, it feels off when they don't. Oh yeah, funny ish when Leo says we'll steal your souls through your butt __________________ "Infinite possibilities have been opened to me thanks to this...Technodrome."-Ch'rell aka The Shredder, Turtles Forever "Breathe in the smoke, Oroku Saki, and meditate. Open your mind and all will become clear."-Kitsune, SHotFC #3

08-09-2015, 02:51 PM	#63
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,688	I'm surprised they didn't explain how Yoshi got the "Splinter" nickname. In this version he was called Splinter before the Turtles met him, so I guess it was just some old nickname Saki used to call him?

08-09-2015, 02:58 PM	#65
tmntfanuk Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: UK Posts: 187	Awesome episode! One of the very best in a long, long time. I wanted more. A two-parter would have been epic!

08-09-2015, 03:00 PM	#66
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,688	Anyone think its odd the Turtles just left Shen's body in the building to burn? The least they could have done is dragged her body out next to Yoshi.

08-09-2015, 03:17 PM	#69
Toadtrooper Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 250	"Show, don't tell" only applies to things that actually need to be shown. Instead, we get 22 minutes of exposition to set up one time-travel convenience that doesn't make sense. Yeah, they're trying to say the Turtles saved Hamato Yoshi, but who did they displace? It refuses to answer how Hamato was saved before the Turtles even existed. Because if the answer is some vague, mythical Yokai, then this episode never needed to happen, and it was just a way to spend 22 more minutes on something we already know. With a weird, unnecessary twist. Or basically Into The Woods: TMNT Edition. Hall of Shame goes to Tang Shen, who not only left a helpless baby on the ground to run into a burning building, but ran in front of an angry man with a deadly weapon. Not heroic. Stupid. Between her and ditsy Renet, writer fails at writing women. I'm assuming it's just Randolph Heard. He's really nothing to write home about. And Ciro can fangirl about his darker version the same way Trank can fangirl about "his" version of Fantastic Four. I don't care about fangirling when the entire thing deserves to be on the cutting room floor.

08-09-2015, 03:56 PM	#78
Toadtrooper Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 250	The only show that's ever done time travel convincingly was Misfits. First, they explained the time travel as a one-time-use, acquired, and subjective power, not a scientific possibility to be reused over and over whenever convenient. Then they had characters written well enough to make the entire thing both believable and tragic. Without the Turtles meeting the Yokai that saved Hamato the first time, the episode is pointless. It never justifies why the Turtles being there is important. If Oroku Saki had straight-up murdered the original Yokai and the Turtles had to intervene to preserve the original event, then you have a story to work with. And if that's what the network prevented from happening, then the whole episode should have been shelved and never released. So, yes, not quite unlike Fantastic Four.

08-09-2015, 04:00 PM	#80
aliena Hench Mutant Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 294	It's a relief to get two great episodes in a row. The thing I wanted the most to happen I got. Leo holding Karai was so sweet. I liked it when Mikey saved them with a smoke bomb and then told us he saved them. That had to be a wink directed to us by the writers. Mikey eating the cucumbers was really cute. I wonder if he'll keep eating them in the present. I did wish they could have taken Karai away from Shredder, but who is to say that she would be the same person she was in the present if she had been raised by Splinter? And lastly, will we really ever see Renet again? That's not much of a love interest for Mikey if he only has her for 1 episode.