Shifting power levels - Page 4

*Candy Kappa* · 03-06-2016, 01:23 PM

I think it's less FW vs Mirage, and more how much of a jerk-wad Wise was for claiming to be the "true" creator of Ninja Turtles.

Yabuturtle · 03-06-2016, 01:26 PM

That's I've been trying to say! Most of these guys went nuts over it! That's why I suggested making another thread discussing it. Although there's been threads discussing it anyway but whatever. We all got our different tastes and probably aren't going to change our minds anytime soon. It is time to move on.

General Tragg I have to say is the most consistent one. He always gave the Turtles a hard time.

*Powder* · 03-06-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

David Wise and company certainly had some original ideas and added to the mythos, but they did not invent the TMNT.

Even if you want to make believe that Mirage turtles didn't have personalities until 1991 or whatever, outside of the archetypes Mirage Leo is very different from FW Leo, Mirage Raph is very different from FW Raph, etc. etc. all the way down the cast list.

Yeah, & they certainly weren't adapted in Mirage, either. Both mocked & homaged, but not integrated as part of their personalities.

Pizza dude-bro is a novelist, mad scientist is a cynic, wisecracker is roid-rage, & fearless leader is Splinter Jr.

*pferreira* · 03-06-2016, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

Utter horse sh*t. You're a reprehensible FW fanboy.

I'm guessing you're a reprehensible Mirage fanboy?

*CyberCubed* · 03-06-2016, 03:28 PM

Some of you really need some good discipline. Why can't you all stop bickering?

*ToTheNines* · 03-06-2016, 03:32 PM

*pferreira* · 03-06-2016, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

You ain't gotta lie dude. Mirage WAS the groundwork. David Wise and company certainly had some original ideas and added to the mythos, but they did not invent the TMNT.

Even if you want to make believe that Mirage turtles didn't have personalities until 1991 or whatever, outside of the archetypes Mirage Leo is very different from FW Leo, Mirage Raph is very different from FW Raph, etc. etc. all the way down the cast list.

Yup yup.

I didn't once say David Wise created TMNT, I said he developed and fleshed out their personalities where in the early comics up until 1987 (NOT 1991) it was limited. But yeah they have used the personalities of the Fred Wolf Turtles on successive incarnations of the Turtles. I totally wouldn't agree with Wise about exaggerating his involvement with TMNT (that goes against him) but then he added so much to the show so I really don't understand why apparently everything he's ever said is a lie and we shouldn't believe him. I mean if we can't trust the writers to tell the truth what are we doing? Making up whatever truth satisfies us because people on this site who hate the FW cartoon don't want anybody to think successive incarnations of TMNT took stuff creatively from this cartoon. I'm not just talking the style, I mean the writing as well. I think instead of blacklisting stuff while rolling their eyes some fans should just try to see the creative contribution every version of TMNT has made, yes even the Fred Wolf cartoon.

*ToTheNines* · 03-06-2016, 03:41 PM

Dude, I love the Fred Wolf cartoon. I'm currently watching through season 4, just finished "The Big Cufflink Caper" mere hours ago, and I've been through the whole thing multiple times.

I was exaggerating about the '91 thing and the creator comment, but the fact remains that Wise cannot be credited with assigning the basic archetypes to each turtle and Mirage was never directly influenced by the cartoon outside of gags.

*Wesley* · 03-06-2016, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

General Tragg I have to say is the most consistent one. He always gave the Turtles a hard time.

I agree about General Tragg. The fact that he held his own against the Turtles made his rare appearances even more impressive.

*CyberCubed* · 03-06-2016, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley

I agree about General Tragg. The fact that he held his own against the Turtles made his rare appearances even more impressive.

His appearance in the Season 6 opener, "Rock around the Block" is my favorite episode with him.

His final episode was in Season 8 where he reports the Technodrome got stuck in a black hole. A shame the show ended without a final battle with him. They do fight the Rock Soldiers one last time in the Season 8 finale though.

*neatoman* · 03-06-2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

I'm guessing you're a reprehensible Mirage fanboy?

Oh yeah! Mirage studios incorporated so much from the Fred Wolf cartoon! Remember all those Mirage stories with Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, the Technodrome, Dimension X, Burne, Vernon, Irma, April becoming a newsreporter, Shredder coming back to life in order to build a shrinking ray, the Punk Frogs, Pizza Monsters, Robotic Foot Ninja, Rock Soldiers and the constant fourth wall jokes?

Oh wait, None of that happened!!!

You know why? Because the writers and artists did not want to pull from the show! If they wanted, it would have become far more similar than simply characterisation.

*Powder* · 03-06-2016, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

I'm guessing you're a reprehensible Mirage fanboy?

I like how you're completely ignoring the fact I have FW Leo as my avatar.

Yabuturtle · 03-06-2016, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley

I agree about General Tragg. The fact that he held his own against the Turtles made his rare appearances even more impressive.

He seemed to be the toughest, which makes me wonder, why didn't he call the shots instead of Shredder and Krang, and he was the most competent as well as the most loyal member. He never once betrayed anyone while Shredder, Krang, Baxter Stockman Bebop and Rocksteady all betrayed each other at some point in time.

I wish Tragg was with the Rock Soldiers in the episode Turtle Trek so we could have a final battle with the tmnt and Tragg.

*Wesley* · 03-07-2016, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

He seemed to be the toughest, which makes me wonder, why didn't he call the shots instead of Shredder and Krang, and he was the most competent as well as the most loyal member. He never once betrayed anyone while Shredder, Krang, Baxter Stockman Bebop and Rocksteady all betrayed each other at some point in time.

I wish Tragg was with the Rock Soldiers in the episode Turtle Trek so we could have a final battle with the tmnt and Tragg.

I think Tragg didn't call the shots because the Rock Soldiers and him were created by Krang or he preferred to take orders instead.

It would have liked if Tragg had fought the Turtles alongside the Rock Soldiers in Turtle Trek as well. There was a missed opportunity for them to fight the tmnt together in Shredder Triumphant when they were patrolling the city.

*pferreira* · 03-07-2016, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

I like how you're completely ignoring the fact I have FW Leo as my avatar.

I figured it was more a love/hate relationship you have with the show. I despise you so much yet you're so irresistible.

*pferreira* · 03-07-2016, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Oh yeah! Mirage studios incorporated so much from the Fred Wolf cartoon! Remember all those Mirage stories with Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, the Technodrome, Dimension X, Burne, Vernon, Irma, April becoming a newsreporter, Shredder coming back to life in order to build a shrinking ray, the Punk Frogs, Pizza Monsters, Robotic Foot Ninja, Rock Soldiers and the constant fourth wall jokes?

I'm talking about their personalities. They were developed more in the FW cartoon. Mikey is the laidback party dude but where do we know that from? The Mirage comic? Also nearly everything you've mentioned has been done or used in successive Turtles iterations whether it's the IDW comic, the 4Kids series, the Nick series etc. So yeah someone obviously did something creatively right for that stuff to stick with fans...just not for you...

By the way in which episode are you referring to with Shredder coming back to life and building a shrinking ray?

*Xav* · 03-07-2016, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Remember all those Mirage stories with Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, the Technodrome, Dimension X, Burne, Vernon, Irma, April becoming a newsreporter, Shredder coming back to life in order to build a shrinking ray, the Punk Frogs, Pizza Monsters, Robotic Foot Ninja, Rock Soldiers and the constant fourth wall jokes?

Oh wait, None of that happened!!!

April actually did become a reporter in Mirage issue 32.

*neatoman* · 03-07-2016, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xav

April actually did become a reporter in Mirage issue 32.

Well OK, there's that but it was just a weird out of continuity story made by a guest creator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

I'm talking about their personalities. They were developed more in the FW cartoon. Mikey is the laidback party dude but where do we know that from? The Mirage comic? Also nearly everything you've mentioned has been done or used in successive Turtles iterations whether it's the IDW comic, the 4Kids series, the Nick series etc. So yeah someone obviously did something creatively right for that stuff to stick with fans...just not for you...

By the way in which episode are you referring to with Shredder coming back to life and building a shrinking ray?

Ahem...

Released about two years before the cartoon.

And yes, most of that was used later on but not in the Mirage Studios comics (with a few non-canon exceptions written by guest creators). As for Shredder coming back to life to make a shrinking ray, it was a joke about how he wasn't the main villain the comics and the show didn't change that, like how the comics didn't try to emulate the show, which you stubbornly imply it did.

*shuriken* · 03-07-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

I figured it was more a love/hate relationship you have with the show. I despise you so much yet you're so irresistible.

LOL. But yeah all the writers made so many continuity errors in terms of "power levels" that it just depends on the episode.
But no, Wise did not create the character traits, just made them a bit more stereotypical (except maybe Sarcasta-Raph). Still appreciate it for what it is, although the coloring errors always irked me as a kid even.

*CyberCubed* · 03-07-2016, 06:53 PM

The coloring errors are all because of Korean and other Asian animation studios. People fail to realize cartoons aren't animated in America. They animated them in cheap Asian animation studios where the workers are page below minimum wage and no benefits.

03-06-2016, 01:23 PM	#61
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	I think it's less FW vs Mirage, and more how much of a jerk-wad Wise was for claiming to be the "true" creator of Ninja Turtles. __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

03-06-2016, 01:26 PM	#62
Yabuturtle Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 602	That's I've been trying to say! Most of these guys went nuts over it! That's why I suggested making another thread discussing it. Although there's been threads discussing it anyway but whatever. We all got our different tastes and probably aren't going to change our minds anytime soon. It is time to move on. General Tragg I have to say is the most consistent one. He always gave the Turtles a hard time.

03-06-2016, 03:28 PM	#65
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,872	Some of you really need some good discipline. Why can't you all stop bickering?

03-06-2016, 03:32 PM	#66
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,354

03-06-2016, 03:41 PM	#68
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,354	Dude, I love the Fred Wolf cartoon. I'm currently watching through season 4, just finished "The Big Cufflink Caper" mere hours ago, and I've been through the whole thing multiple times. I was exaggerating about the '91 thing and the creator comment, but the fact remains that Wise cannot be credited with assigning the basic archetypes to each turtle and Mirage was never directly influenced by the cartoon outside of gags.

03-07-2016, 06:53 PM	#80
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,872	The coloring errors are all because of Korean and other Asian animation studios. People fail to realize cartoons aren't animated in America. They animated them in cheap Asian animation studios where the workers are page below minimum wage and no benefits.