33 Confirmed Killed in Shooting at VA Tech

[bullet]

i agree w/ iris...especially considering that it's basically impossible to identify who is and who isn't a murderer walking around on campus. ordinarily, no one checks what you're carrying on you as long as you keep it well hidden...and they have tens of thousands of students + thousands of visitors on any given day...so. i mean, if some whacked mofo wanted to take out 32 people with him and his mind is set on doing it, it's gonna be pretty much impossible to prevent it from happening unless someone knows exactly what he's up to. it's like terrorism, i mean, people who really want to do evil will get their way ...especially since he's willing to blow off his own face.

[jeff the cheff]

Ok so he got away after the first shooting. The cops probably should've been able to find him...but they didn't. I don't think that is the main problem here, though. They sent an email saying don't worry about all the cops. Their reasoning behind not canceling classes for the day and tell everyone to stay inside was that the gunman "probably" fled the campus.

Are you serious? You're just going to assume that he left the campus, just because it's your best guess? They cancel classes because of the weather being dangerous, but not because a murderer is on the loose?

[Cascadia]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

My opinion remains, they should have cancelled classes and notified the students faster. But I wonder what the best course of action would have been. Is there a procedure for something like this?

I do not know...my local university sent each student a copy of their emergency plans. They suggested to lock all doors before a shooting occurred.

[bullet]

hm i can hear the national anthem out there...we just had a campus-wide moment of silence.

[ZariusTwo]

Beleive it or not, this is a REAL ad.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Beleive it or not, this is a REAL ad.

Simply... terrible. I almost wrote unbelievable but sadly nowadays, it's quite believable that someone would do this.

[Jamboree]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Simply... terrible. I almost wrote unbelievable but sadly nowadays, it's quite believable that someone would do this.

Whoa! that was quick. I swear that have one of those for practically everything. shoot the ganster...pump more oil than bush... blow up the terrorist... slap the sumos belly... outfart the girl... I thought I seen em all, but they find a way to top it every time.

[Sliced]

A journal said that Cho Seung-Hui was treated for depression, and that he was becoming more and more violent...

They also were able to prove that one of the two pistols was used in both shootings...

So, its just pretty sure that he was the one who did both shootings. And the guy seemed pretty unstable, so he was ''knowing'' what he was doing.. He sure needed to be extra careful with all the ammo he was carrying. But was he hidding all of that in his room on the campus ? Sure could be easy to do so.. but he still had alot of stuff to hide..

EDIT : I remember a similar ad, about american soldiers killed in Iraq, they do them all the time, should be brought down soon enough..

[Jon]

^ Yeah, I just heard a bit about that.

Seems he was a rather disturbed individual. Writing graphic (and disturbing) papers for what were supposed to be reports and essays. Including a pretty recent one rambling of suicide and getting rid of certain people (for how they were/acted, etc.).

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by iris

I think they did their best in the circumstances. They apparently had reason to think that the gunman had left campus. They were actively looking for him. It's not like shootings occur in Blacksburg very often, so it's doubtful they were nonchalant about this to begin with.

Some are reporting that a similar situation occured in the area not too long ago.


Two hours, they had an idea of who this guy was, too. The email could have been a bit more detailed, instead playing the "cryptic, we're in control here" angle.

No matter what evidence comes to light, I still say some of the blame rests on the shoulders of the school.

Look, when you take on the responsibility of running a university, then you take on the responsibility of handling the problems at that university, no matter how severe. Now, in the aftermath, nobody wants to handle the consequences.

Now, I would have empathized with everyone if the gunman had gone on a fifteen minute killing spree. Then there's no time to really react. But they had two hours to formulate some kind of contingency.

Sure, there's a potential for panic. But then again, that's the situation, isn't it?

I guess it boils down to: Would you like to have known this guy was out there?

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by Jon

Writing graphic (and disturbing) papers for what were supposed to be reports and essays. Including a pretty recent one rambling of suicide and getting rid of certain people (for how they were/acted, etc.).

One of his essays, a play, was so disturbing that the teacher sent him to counceling. That play is online....I haven't read it but reading the plot synopsis certainly made me go "WTF?!"

He also left a note in his dorm stating his hatred for rich people.

[Sliced]

Again a case of a poor soul screaming for help, and no one really wanting to hear it. I mean it was just obvious.. The guy was treated for depression and was said to become very violent, mix that with the essays and the play...

The guy asked for help in his own ''way''.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Some are reporting that a similar situation occured in the area not too long ago.


Two hours, they had an idea of who this guy was, too. The email could have been a bit more detailed, instead playing the "cryptic, we're in control here" angle.

No matter what evidence comes to light, I still say some of the blame rests on the shoulders of the school.

Look, when you take on the responsibility of running a university, then you take on the responsibility of handling the problems at that university, no matter how severe. Now, in the aftermath, nobody wants to handle the consequences.

Now, I would have empathized with everyone if the gunman had gone on a fifteen minute killing spree. Then there's no time to really react. But they had two hours to formulate some kind of contingency.

Sure, there's a potential for panic. But then again, that's the situation, isn't it?

I guess it boils down to: Would you like to have known this guy was out there?

Well... from what I've heard on the news, they weren't sure who had done it for a while.
Infact, there was reporting that initially they had thoughts the first incident might have been a murder/suicide (which, likely, was the reason of continuing classes).

But, at any rate. This is (plain-and-simple) a horrific tragedy.

[Katie]

Originally Posted by Sliced

Again a case of a poor soul screaming for help, and no one really wanting to hear it. I mean it was just obvious.. The guy was treated for depression and was said to become very violent, mix that with the essays and the play...

The guy asked for help in his own ''way''.

Well....he did get counseling, though....and the department head did reach out to him and try and connect with him. He had to WANT help to benefit from it and I have a feeling that he probably considered this help to be a front.

as for the depression....people are depressed and never do stuff like this (hell, I have been diagnosed with clinical depression a couple times in my life) They usually harm themselves not others.

As for his writing....it is an interesting window to his brain. People write violent things like that every day and would never dream of doing such a thing. the writing creates the output for their feelings and it never goes any farther. Just because you write it does not mean you're gonna do it.

Each of those things individually is not the beacon to tag and say "yep, that's it everyone who has/does this stuff will certianly follow suit" (I've seen alot of that today in the media "OH NOEZ THE STORIES HE WROTE")

BUT put them together and you may have a time bomb....Reasearchers have looked at what causes people to do things like this and have found three prominent pillers: Mental Disorders, Brain injury, and an Abusive history. the first two to impair judgement and the final to kindle the anger you need to carry out something as horrific as what we saw yesterday. It will be interesting to see the background of this guy and what was making him tick...and if he had all those three factors.

[Sliced]

Originally Posted by Katie

Well....he did get counseling, though....and the department head did reach out to him and try and connect with him. He had to WANT help to benefit from it and I have a feeling that he probably considered this help to be a front.

That's true, to want help is of course the first step.

as for the depression....people are depressed and never do stuff like this (hell, I have been diagnosed with clinical depression a couple times in my life) They usually harm themselves not others.

True again, but this guy was depressed, and quite violent and aggressive. Its not everyone who get depressed, that get that aggressive. Just that is a good indicator that he was unstable. Not just depressed.

As for his writing....it is an interesting window to his brain. People write violent things like that every day and would never dream of doing such a thing. the writing creates the output for their feelings and it never goes any farther. Just because you write it does not mean you're gonna do it.

No, but just mix that with my above comment, and you need to be careful with such people. Now, did it all happen in the same time.. The depression, the essays, the play, the level of aggressivity... This, we don't know. But it doesn't really matter, it just adds up to one another.

Each of those things individually is not the beacon to tag and say "yep, that's it everyone who has/does this stuff will certianly follow suit" (I've seen alot of that today in the media "OH NOEZ THE STORIES HE WROTE")

BUT put them together and you may have a time bomb....Reasearchers have looked at what causes people to do things like this and have found three prominent pillers: Mental Disorders, Brain injury, and an Abusive history. the first two to impair judgement and the final to kindle the anger you need to carry out something as horrific as what we saw yesterday. It will be interesting to see the background of this guy and what was making him tick...and if he had all those three factors

What we know so far : He did had mental disorders (depression and violence), brain injury might be emotional injury in this case as it was mentionned that he wanted to get his girlfriend. They surely broke up and that triggered the madness acts. As for Abusive history, we didn't have any details on that one yet that I remember.. Or you could maybe put the lost of his girlfriend in this category...

Really, we will of course be centered when we have all the details. But its pretty clear to me, that something could have been done for that guy, that never was done. I don't know what people can do in these kind of situation, but I'm sure that something more radical could have been done for him. But like I said, I don't know what...

[Cascadia]

What sounds like to me is that the papers and assignments that he wrote were warning signs that he was getting upset and depressed about something. It was good that professor requested that he would go see a counselor. However, it is difficult to determine how long ago that was.

This is what my local university suggest

Threats may be statements of intention or expressions of strong
emotion. They can be indirect or direct, verbal or nonverbal. Shaking
a fist, pounding a desk, throwing things, and showing a weapon are all
examples of nonverbal threats. Verbal threats may be indirect expressions
of frustration or anger directed toward a person or office, or they may be
direct statements of the intention to harm.

These situations are complex, and it is not expected that individuals will
be able to assess whether the threat is serious and might actually lead
to harm. However, it is expected that University employees treat every
threat or display of hate as serious and potentially harmful.
Most people who commit violent acts exhibit warning signs. It is
important that any behaviors or words that imply a threat are taken
seriously, and the appropriate people are notified to assess the risk and to
plan interventions.

[Katie]

She sent him to the counselor a year ago.


I just hate that anyone who writes anything even remotely dark for awhile will be under the microscope for possible future acts of violence. THAT'S my main pet peeve with them going all out on this writing thing.

I think it's awfully interesting how the media will latch on to certian things and bring those points up in EVERY interview that is done trying to support their ideas. (the notification and the writing being my main two at the moment)

Oh and...I REALLY feel bad for that guy's parents. Imagine the stigma they now have. Two more innocent victims.

[iris]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Some are reporting that a similar situation occured in the area not too long ago.

Yes. There was an escaped convict and there were deaths. My point was that this is a rare event in Blacksburg and it would have gotten their full attention.

Two hours, they had an idea of who this guy was, too. The email could have been a bit more detailed, instead playing the "cryptic, we're in control here" angle.

No matter what evidence comes to light, I still say some of the blame rests on the shoulders of the school.

Look, when you take on the responsibility of running a university, then you take on the responsibility of handling the problems at that university, no matter how severe. Now, in the aftermath, nobody wants to handle the consequences.

Now, I would have empathized with everyone if the gunman had gone on a fifteen minute killing spree. Then there's no time to really react. But they had two hours to formulate some kind of contingency.

Sure, there's a potential for panic. But then again, that's the situation, isn't it?

I guess it boils down to: Would you like to have known this guy was out there?

Well, yeah, but they they thought he wasn't out there. They had the area of the first shooting on lockdown for a while, until they thought it was safe. They were wrong. There was no way they could have expected a lengthy time window and then a killing spree.

I'm not saying those emails were perfectly written. They were lacking. Clearly, someone didn't think of a mass murderer running around campus when they drafted the Emergency Preparedness plans.

I guess I prefer to lay blame with the actual killer, not the university personnel who failed to see into the psyche of a hypothetical killer and plan ahead.

[jeff the cheff]

I still think the university personell are to blame. They didn't really have any good reason to assume he left the campus, it was more of a guess.

[Cascadia]

But how would the university personnel be able to keep track of where all 25,000 students are on campus or off-campus?