IDW's TMNT #13 discussion

[oldmanwinters]

As much as I hate the way Kuhn's artistic representations of the Turtles look in isolated panels, I have to admit that his art style didn't really bother me so much after those first 6 pages.

Spoiler:

He does a passable job on the human characters and I loved the way all those Utrom...er...Kraang..er...pinkish, brain-like aliens look on the splash page.

The absolute artistic lowpoint of this issue for me was Leonardo's expression on the bottom left panel of page 3. Kuhn absolutely fails to communicate anything close to what the word bubble suggests.

Originally Posted by Jester

Thoughts?

Muhahah! It's so true!

Originally Posted by Jester

Well....lets see. Issue 23 or 30? But does the change from Duncan to Kuhn equate to the Mitchroney to Lawson shift?

Jim Lawson was awfully sneaky in the 90s. Sometimes he could just appear in the middle of the comic you were reading!

[rx781a]

The art reminds me of mike mignola. i like it but sincerely hope that ross campbell will return to turtles

[DrSpengler]

A day late, but here's my review of TMNT #13 at TMNT Entity.

I'm friggin' PSYCHED to see the Krang arc finally go start moving along after a year of spinning its wheels. The bit of background on Karai and the Foot Clan was good, too. Though, if she's such a prodigy and so competent, it makes her humiliatingly easy defeat at the hands of the Turtles last issue all the more confusing.

Or I guess Shredder's right; she really ISN'T ready.


And I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but I just don't dig Kuhn's art. His layout is great and his people all look fine; great body language and facial expressions.

It's just the way he renders the Turtles' faces. Those huge dimples/cheekbones and the idiotic grins. They look absurd. Perhaps if he changed that I wouldn't feel so critically about his work, but I'm just not digging it yet.

Anyway, I'm liking the story so far and jeez, I just want to see where the Krang stuff is going. That's been my Number 1 interest since this book began.

[Heather Breckel]

I like the style with the exception of the teeth of course. I really like that Ronda did a different style for the colors. While it's not drastically different from what she usually does, I appreciate that she works differently with different people's lines.

[Venom]

It's late, and I'm petering out so this is really short:

I like Kuhn's noirish/pulpish art style, but not the TMNTeeth. :]

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I hope it's Tatsu too. It wouldn't make sense for Saki to promote some mutant to second in command... unless we start seeing human-to-mutant mutations already.

i'd much rather see tatsu than hun. i've always respected the tatsu character, even though he originated from the movie. hun...i just never could get into the character.

i like kuhn's art, but yeah those teeth gotta go. hopefully he'll get word and do some redesign on how he draws teeth.

krang and the utroms were great! i loved how he drew them. baxter was pretty great too. i even like his splinter. but splinter is a rat with big buck teeth so i guess his art style wouldnt have a negative impact on that character anyway, lol.

[FoxZerro]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Tatsu and Karai as father and daughter(?) or not would be a fun interaction to see.

I would like to see them not related. Especially because Karai's Father was responsible for the decline of the Foot Clan and as much as I am for the reimagining of characters I would be disappointed if they took Tatsu and made him unfit to lead.


Other than that I really thought the art worked for the story, yes the teeth were distracting, horrifically distracting, but I don't know the turtles in general felt more menacing to me. Like why yes we do have the muscle to back up our skills, shall we dance. Still it is a radical shift from what we were getting from Duncan so I can completely understand the uproar.

I was super happy that Baxter and Krang came back into the picture. I was afraid they would be forgotten in the whole "Paying for your Actions or How Casey got his Groove back" arc.

Finally one complaint. April's reaction to Casey not telling her he had an abusive Father was ill timed. The kid is sitting there after having his ass kicked and you're going to come up and pile on with the whole "I though we were friends, you should have told me, you don't like me as much as I like you, blah blah blah" speech. I would get it a little way down the line but to have it happen on the same day Casey just dragged himself into the store, not to mention that they really don't seem like they've known each other that long considering the last four issues took place in a day. I just couldn't see it as the big betrayal April made it out to be, it was just bad form and the the first thing that IDW April has done that really made me dislike the character.

I think what really just made it ludicrous is that April equated trust as her telling Casey about her Father having a stroke. That was clearly a reveal of the love that she has for her Dad, it would have actually been a real asshole move if Casey had come back with something along the lines of "I wish my Dad would have a stroke then maybe he would stop beating me like a red headed step child and we can be a family again." Heck, even if he put it in more delicate terms it would have been the wrong time to bring it up. Then between storming Ninja Headquarters, Saving his friend's Father, and you know getting beaten to a pulp by his own Father. Casey didn't exactly have the opportunity to share something so intimate about himself with her.

[Ninjinister]

I didn't really think about that April thing, but you're right, that does seem kind of odd.

Also the "your poor face" line just seemed... off.

[wedestroymyths]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

Finally one complaint. April's reaction to Casey not telling her he had an abusive Father was ill timed. The kid is sitting there after having his ass kicked and you're going to come up and pile on with the whole "I though we were friends, you should have told me, you don't like me as much as I like you, blah blah blah" speech. I would get it a little way down the line but to have it happen on the same day Casey just dragged himself into the store, not to mention that they really don't seem like they've known each other that long considering the last four issues took place in a day. I just couldn't see it as the big betrayal April made it out to be, it was just bad form and the the first thing that IDW April has done that really made me dislike the character.

I had the same response. I gave it a bit of leeway because I figured they might have done it for pacing reasons--you know, trying to progress the story more quickly than the brief passage of time in each issue really allows--but I hope that this type of emotional shorthand doesn't become a regular thing because it was very off-putting.

[DrSpengler]

I had an odd feeling about that scene, too. Particularly April's response after Casey apologizes and admits he was wrong not to tell her. "Yes, you were". Way to drill it in there, April.

I just took that whole sequence to indidicate that IDW's April is... a bit of a bitch.

We don't really know all that much about the personality of IDW's April, despite a year's worth of stories including her (I guess we can thank the pacing for that), so I didn't see her attitude in that scene as necessarily being out of character. But that's just because we don't know the depth of her character yet.

Her browbeating Casey as he's all bloodied because he isn't "sharing enough" made her seem like a clinging nag that puts more emphasis on her own pride and ability to be in charge of a situation than her friend/boyfriend being beaten to a pulp by his father.

[TomWaltz]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I had an odd feeling about that scene, too. Particularly April's response after Casey apologizes and admits he was wrong not to tell her. "Yes, you were". Way to drill it in there, April.

I just took that whole sequence to indidicate that IDW's April is... a bit of a bitch.

We don't really know all that much about the personality of IDW's April, despite a year's worth of stories including her (I guess we can thank the pacing for that), so I didn't see her attitude in that scene as necessarily being out of character. But that's just because we don't know the depth of her character yet.

Her browbeating Casey as he's all bloodied because he isn't "sharing enough" made her seem like a clinging nag that puts more emphasis on her own pride and ability to be in charge of a situation than her friend/boyfriend being beaten to a pulp by his father.

Ahh... but there's more to it than just being a "bit of a bitch." April's angry, yeah... but from a good, caring place inside her heart, not a bad, unfeeling one.

Tune in next issue.

(But be sure to get the great APRIL one-shot in between!)

Tom W.

[wedestroymyths]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I just took that whole sequence to indidicate that IDW's April is... a bit of a bitch.

Her browbeating Casey as he's all bloodied because he isn't "sharing enough" made her seem like a clinging nag that puts more emphasis on her own pride and ability to be in charge of a situation than her friend/boyfriend being beaten to a pulp by his father.

I am/was really hoping this wasn't the case, because these types of misogynistic, hateful characterizations of women who are strong and care are tired, lazy, and offensive. I mean, c'mon, that's what crummy sitcoms are for, right--to constantly remind us that men are stupid but awesome and women are mean but begrudgingly necessary?

I'd rather a sloppy/rushed characterization than a hateful one.

That being said, TomWaltz's response has put me at ease--I'm glad it was being thought of as April coming from a good, caring place, even if it wasn't handled as smoothly as it might have been.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by TomWaltz

(But be sure to get the great APRIL one-shot in between!)

You don't have to tell me twice, Tom!

Has the continuity of the April one-shot been established yet?

[Bobby Curnow]

Hmm, that's interesting take on April's line. I can see how it can be read that way.

I read it as firm and strong, but loving. Casey has developed bad habits— basically letting his Dad beat him and not doing anything about it— and April is saying "that has to stop" in no uncertain terms. Making sure Casey doesn't put himself in danger again comes before being a supportive friend.

But yeah, that's fair— we could have worded it better, made that more clear.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by Bobby Curnow

But yeah, that's fair— we could have worded it better, made that more clear.

Emphasis added to the word "we" by CJJ.

Don't ever feel like you need to defend your crew, Bobby. I haven't read the issue yet-- but all that is really important is that April is written correctly. She's ALWAYS been a bit of a bitch, but in a good way. That's kind of the point of April-- her uniqueness.

[TomWaltz]

Originally Posted by ***Son of Ch'rell***

Emphasis added to the word "we" by CJJ.

Don't ever feel like you need to defend your crew, Bobby. I haven't read the issue yet-- but all that is really important is that April is written correctly. She's ALWAYS been a bit of a bitch, but in a good way. That's kind of the point of April-- her uniqueness.

Ironically, I see April (in this scene) as the proxy for a lot of readers -- the readers who have been asking why the hell Casey is letting this happen to himself. I mean, his reasons are noble (he made a promise to his dying mom, whom he loved very much), but c'mon, already, Casey! This is getting ridiculous now! You're gonna get yourself killed, noble or not! We've all wanted to shout that at Casey... and our fave redhead (and, folks, understand this... I adore April O'Neil! Easily one of my favorite pop culture characters of all time!) is finally doing it for us, while Raph and Splinter are...

Well, like I said, tune into issue #14 for more!

And thanks for continuing to read and analyze our stories, folks! Very much appreciated!

Tom W.

[DrSpengler]

I think a character hammering some sense into Casey was definitely needed. It was more the timing and the context of her "Yes, you were" line didn't quite convey that idea as intuitively.

It wasn't, "Yes, you were wrong to not ask for help" or "yes, you were wrong to let the abuse go on this long". It was, or read this way due to her timing, "Yes, you were wrong not to include ME in this situation because I thought you trusted ME more that that".

April's line made it sound like she was trying to make the situation about HERSELF and that sort of sets of some unpleasant alarms in peoples' heads when reading her.

Under the context that she was more brow-beating Casey for not getting help from those closest to him by sharing his situation, that seems perfectly in line with April's "den mother" characterization that's existed in all forms of TMNT media since the very beginning. But the way she segued from a lecture about "why didn't you tell ME? *I* should have been told about this! Don't you trust ME?" to brow-beating Casey into admitting he was wrong didn't quite convey that aspect of concern for his situation, rahter it felt like she was more concerned abotu her own ego.

Obviously we are analyzing the dialogue rather extensively, you're right. It's just how the framing of said dialogue can completely alter the intent for some readers and create an atmosphere entirely unintended.

[Bobby Curnow]

I think that's a fair read. Could have been handled better. For me, it's one of those things where you read it one way in your head, and then someone says "well, sounds like this" and you're like "oh, yeah. I see that."

[Jester]

That's exactly what I thought. It felt like one more barb thrown at an already contrite Casey. It came of, to me, like she was more upset by him not telling her, than because he let his dad pummel him.

[Redeemer]

I just picked up this issue after work and I have read it already. I loved the issue overal bc it had the foot, krang, and the turtles of course, a nice diverse, broken up issue. I enjoyed the writing, when I heard what the up coming arc was going to be about I was a little let down, but this issue exceeded my expections.

The art though.....It didn't bother me as much, but that is bc the story telling was so good. I do not like the buck tooth look as many others have stated, but my biggest gripe is the lack of detail overal and just the style in general......

But like I said the story telling really brought it in for me.