New Star Wars Cartoon: Star Wars: Clone Wars - Page 5

ironhelix · 06-24-2003, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznorite420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckles

Your knowledge is impressive, Karpo_007. You put up the argument that few I have debated this with have used. It is in fact, perfectly justified, and basically the only type of argument I can take seriously regarding SW. I, of course, agree with you on certain parts. Lucas is definitely lacking in the directing area--ESB and ROTJ definitely show what other directors can do with SW. I am of course, a big SW fan, and I'm the type of fan that can see the flaws, but I still accept it all as valid entries in the saga, and it doesn't diminish the entertainment value for me. I am very much looking forward to Episode III, as Lucas has said that it will be darker and not appeal to some people, which basically means it will appeal more to people than TPM or AOTC, as Lucas is sort of out of touch with how people perceive the movies. But I digress. Anyway, I am pleased to see that some people can actually make valid arguments criticizing the prequels, rather than just hopping on the SW-hating bandwagon, (which, no, I'm not saying that's what every critic of the new movies does, but in my experience it seems that way a lot). Kudos to you, Karpo, and kudos again. May the Force be with you.

I hope you were being sarcastic. Karpo's claiming his own opinions about the prequels are solid facts of the universe, which he does to a lot of things as well. However, I for one tend to lean on the side that despite my own opinions about Karpo's criticism, I and II were definitely NOT the best movies ever made. A New Hope is as of now still my most favorite.

Nah man, the best Star Wars movie ever made was The Ewok Adventure.

**Karpo_007** · 06-24-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznorite420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckles

Your knowledge is impressive, Karpo_007. You put up the argument that few I have debated this with have used. It is in fact, perfectly justified, and basically the only type of argument I can take seriously regarding SW. I, of course, agree with you on certain parts. Lucas is definitely lacking in the directing area--ESB and ROTJ definitely show what other directors can do with SW. I am of course, a big SW fan, and I'm the type of fan that can see the flaws, but I still accept it all as valid entries in the saga, and it doesn't diminish the entertainment value for me. I am very much looking forward to Episode III, as Lucas has said that it will be darker and not appeal to some people, which basically means it will appeal more to people than TPM or AOTC, as Lucas is sort of out of touch with how people perceive the movies. But I digress. Anyway, I am pleased to see that some people can actually make valid arguments criticizing the prequels, rather than just hopping on the SW-hating bandwagon, (which, no, I'm not saying that's what every critic of the new movies does, but in my experience it seems that way a lot). Kudos to you, Karpo, and kudos again. May the Force be with you.

I hope you were being sarcastic. Karpo's claiming his own opinions about the prequels are solid facts of the universe, which he does to a lot of things as well. However, I for one tend to lean on the side that despite my own opinions about Karpo's criticism, I and II were definitely NOT the best movies ever made. A New Hope is as of now still my most favorite.

I've claimed they have cheesy writing and bad acting. Those are not my opions, but facts. When you watch enough movies, you will learn to recognize the diffrence between good and bad acting or brilliant and cheesy writing. And trust me, those or not only my words.

Don't try to damage my credibility saying "Karpo's claiming his own opinions about the prequels are solid facts of the universe, which he does to a lot of things as well." wich is completely BS, I do no such thing.
Next time, if you want to debate, do not attack people saying they say their opinions as facts, try to prove something wrong. So far you did no such thing. And you can't. Im sure no one thinks writing in New episodes is brilliant, that the actors are performing on their best, or that Christenssen is a good actor. Nor will anyone tell you Lucas is good directing actors, since the actors themself have said otherwise. It's you who needs to get your facts staright.

I would say New hope is the second best movie in the series, It tells a whole story. As much better the story telling and writing/acting in Empire Stikes back is, it feels incomplete without Jedi. And nothing beats the first battle against Deathstar, and this is MY OPINION.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-24-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

I've claimed they have cheesy writing and bad acting. Those are not my opions, but facts. When you watch enough movies, you will learn to recognize the diffrence between good and bad acting or brilliant and cheesy writing. And trust me, those or not only my words.

That is most definitely an opinion.

**Karpo_007** · 06-24-2003, 06:21 PM

No, As I say it goes with experience to lern to notice good and and not good acting. When you have watched enough movies you do know why Some people get oscars from acting and some doesn't. If it was an opinion, someone could say that Arnold Schwarznegger is a great character actor. And everyone with even a little experience about the world of movie knows that isn't true.

Also about the underperforming, if you watch other movies of the actors in New episode, Liam Neeson for example,watch a movie called "Les Miserables" or even more in Schindler's List and you do know when he acts good. Or do the same with McGregor in "Transpointing". They are under performing in New episodes, a fact not an opinion.

And I already said this about Lucas' direction, the actors them self has said he doesn't really direct the actors, like telling what they should do diffrently. And about Christensen's acting, prety much same as with mister Schwarznegger.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-24-2003, 10:23 PM

I'm afraid the issue isn't really open for debate. A fact in something that can be proven. An opinion can not be proven. Thinking something is "bad" or cheesy" is not a fact, simply because you can't prove it. But if I said, for example, that my avatar is yellow, that is a fact because you can prove it. People's definitions of what is "bad" or "cheesy" varies. You say that the Star Wars prequels have "cheesy" dialouge and "bad" acting, and yet some people think it's just fine. Your opinion is not a fact, and neither is mine. You can't argue a fact, but you can argue an opinion. Again, Arnold being a great character actor is an opinion, don't try to make it out to be otherwise.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 05:33 AM

Alredy wrote 2 long posts about it, not going to do another. If someone says Arnold is great character actor, it's clear he does not have experience on movies. Like I have told so many times, it goes with experience and how many movies you have watched. Is a movie good or bad, thats an opinion. Is someone underperforming, or juts plain acting bad, it's not.You need watch more movies from the same actor before you really know. Yes it does not bother all people, but those with Experience on movies Will learn to recocgnize it. Like I said, watch Schindler's List and Transpinting. After that you will know how Liam Neeson and Evan Mcgregor act on their best. And if you want to know what's brilliant writing, Let's sa few action movies, Watch Die Hard or Kninghts Tale. Well 2 movies with excellent writing might not be enough, but in time, like I said, you will learn recognize it. Yes someone can say that Arnold is a great character actor, or that my avatar has a cat in it. With experience on movies, and on animals you will learn to recognize that neither is true. Well it seems I made 3th long post after all.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 07:05 AM

I don't believe I have ever met someone who so greatly believes their opinion to be fact. Okay, if the Star Wars prequels have cheesy writing and bad acting, prove it to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. If Arnold isn't a good character actor, prove it to me. You can give me reasons as to why to have your opinions on those topics, but you CAN NOT prove to me that either is fact.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 07:54 AM

I have never met anyone else who says that what is cheesy writing is an opinion, or bad acting for that matter. Like I have said to many times already, WHEN you watch enough movies,you will learn to recognize it. From someone who hasn't it's inmpossible to "prove" since he may not know the diffrence. In these cases best I can do is give example movies they should compare The movies in question to, or in this case individual actor performances.

Belive me, 5 years ago I wouldn't have made a diffrence between Robert De Niro or Arnold Arnold Schwarznegger. But after starting to get really into the movies, like watching classic movies and most of new movies that come in to theaters, I do now know without any doubt who is better actor. And yes, itis a fact. If Someone says Arnold acts better, he does not have enough experience on movies. Like I said, if you do not see the difrence between good and bad acting or brilliant and cheesy writing, compare the movies to exampels I gave you. Wich is a better movies, is always a matter of opinion, but wich movie has better writing is not. Also wich actor you think is better is a matter of opinion, but wich actor can act better is not.

You keep incisting that these are only my opinion, and since you do, do you say Hayden is a good actor? Are you saying that writing in New star Wars movies is brilliant? Are you saying that the actors do not perform better in other movies? Hayden goes without proving, you don't need to have experience on movies to know that he can't really act. Watching episode 2 is enough. Star WArs movies are mainly action, so I compare it to other action movies. Compare it to Die Hard, and you will see the diffrence between cheesy and good writing. And About the actor performances, watch the movies I have listed before. If you do this, you have proven it to yourself.

It's a diffrent thing if chseeys writing bothers you, than if it's there. I so know people that likes Episode 2 more than original trilogy[!] and even they won't deny these facts. You have not done anything else but said that these ae my opinions and not facts. I have no given you the way to prove them as facts yourself, It's your choice what you do with them. Even with these faults New Star Wars movies are good entertainment, but for these reasons they won't win Oscars, or won't be remembered after 20 years like original trilogy.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 08:19 AM

Oh, this is gonna be fun...

I do not take issue over your opinion that the Star Wars prequels have cheesy writing or bad acting. That's not what I'm debating here. I do, however, take issuie over the fact that you think you are somehow the main authority on the quality of movies.

Quote:

I have never met anyone else who says that what is cheesy writing is an opinion, or bad acting for that matter.

Hi there. Have we met yet?

Quote:

I've claimed they have cheesy writing and bad acting. Those are not my opions, but facts

You think that the movies have cheesy writing and bad acting? I don't care if you think that. For all you know, I agree with you. But, just beause someone does think that the acting and writing are good, are you going to tell them they're wrong? You can't, because, it is their opinion.

I don't care if you've seen every movie ever made, or none at all. Your opinion still amounts to exactly that: and opinion. If you failed to throughly read my posts (and I suspect you did), you would notice that I defined what facts and opinions are. A fact can be proven. An opinion can't be proven. If I said that earth is the third planet from the sun, that is a fact. You can prove it. If I said that I thought a movie was bad, that is an opinion, because, you can't prove it. People's definitions of "bad" and "good" vary. Yours and mine are very different, as you no doubt noticed. You can't force an opinion on someone. You're borderline doing that. I hate to dissappoint you, but your word is not law.

If the movies having cheesy writing and bad acting are facts, than prove it to me. I said that in my previous post, and so far you've failed to give me an answer to this.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 08:42 AM

I suspect you failed to read my last 4 posts. Im not forcing my opinion to anyone. If someone says Arnold is better actor than Al Pacino or Robert De Niro, Yes I can say his is wrong. Acting is interpreting a written character. AND yes it does matter how much you know about movies, when you do know enough, you will understand what Im talking about. Like I said in my previous post, it's diffrent thing to think Arnold is better actor than say he acts better. He is no a good actor, will never be, but thats not the point. Point is that it is a fact, not opinion that De Niro interprets charcaters better than Schwarznegger. If someone says otherwise, I can easily prove him wrong by telling: watch few of De niros movies and compare them to Arnold Schwarznegger's. Same goes with cheesy writing. It has everything to do how many movies you have seen, Like I have said too many times, you will learn to see the diffrence. I did.

Brilliannt writing is imaginetive, and multidimensional. In SW movies it's flat. And this to can only be recognized after experience. If you like Writing in Star Wars, that is your opinion, but it does not make it brilliant.
About Lucas' directing, Actors themselfs have proved that, enough said.
And About Actor performances, You really need to see the movies I've mentioned to see the diffrence.

This argument leads to no where, as you are unable accept that Good acting or writing is not a question of opinion. Neither is good Dancing for example. If someone constantly falls while dancing, or steps on His Partner's feet, he isn't a good dancer. It's a fact, not opinion. Same goes about writing. When you learn to understand this, you will learn why Some movies get Oscars and some don't.

I have given you more examples, but this is movies we are atliing about, moving pictures. Words can not not prove it, and I understand that. Thats why I have given you the example movies. You need to see them, and compare them to New Star Wars. Thats the only way It can be proved.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 09:08 AM

I believe that the word is obstinate. I am finding it increasingly more difficult to take you seriously. Your arguments hold no water. You claim fail to back up your arguments in a satisfactory manner.

Quote:

I have given you more examples, but this is movies we are atliing about, moving pictures. Words can not not prove it, and I understand that. Thats why I have given you the example movies. You need to see them, and compare them to New Star Wars. Thats the only way It can be proved.

It's going to take more than just that to convince me. I highly suggest you register at theforce.net forums and post the same thing there with that attitude. You may be surprised when you discover that most of the people who agree with you are the 33 year old fanboys who live in their parent's basement and think up new ways to bash Star Wars for a living, becasue they didn't get what they wanted in the prequels. I might as well go repeatedly hit my head aganst a brick wall; I'll likely have more effect on it than trying to hold a serious disscussion with someone who refuses to believe that they've said something wrong.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 09:25 AM

Yes I do know about the forums. And I do know the level of dicussion there, much like the infamous GameFaqs forums for TMNT. It certainly isn't a good thing. My arguments are much stronger than yours, you don't have other except "No, Its ypour opinion, not a fact". Now even you start attacking my credibility. If something, that shoud not be taken seriously. I have said nothing wrong, But I have better things to do than argue with someone who does not even try to prove anything wrong, but gives comments like "I am finding it increasingly more difficult to take you seriously". After reading that feel exactly that about you. You made a personal atack, So I will end the discussion here. There is no point trying to prove something to somen who has clearly decided that "You are wrong, whatever you say".

Last thing I will say to this matter, I do like Commando much more than Titanic, But I do know that Acting, Writing and story is far better in Titanic, trust me, it's not my opinion.

Im not going to debate with someone who instead of makig arguments, starts to attack personally. So This s my last post here. Please, Now write as much as you want how you can't take me seriously, how I am wrong. Knock yourself out. I will just agree to disagree, without attacking you.

If someone wants to discuss about New episodes rather than My opions/facts, I will reply, I always enjoy discussing about Star Wars. But I will not write another post about this argument, no matter how "you can't take me seriously".

Burning In H2O · 06-25-2003, 10:50 AM

Karpo_007, it is a pity you are so self-centered... Siding with Eye of Sarnath, no where did he say that he didn't like 'dark" movies. Now as I bring back the subject of them, if I went to see a movie, I would not rate it on if it was a "dark" one. I would rate acting, plot, music, and depending on what kind of movie it is (reality fiction), I would also rate how real it actually is. Also, "Dark" movies are not "expressed" as you said. When someone blows up a huge spaceship they say "ooops" I don't hurry up and leave muttering to myself "Oh damn, it's not a dark movie." Listening to what you say you are a person who sits there and is happy beacuse after he explosion of the large spaceship happend there is a evil "Muhahaha." The occasional "ooops" adds the nice litte bit of comedy into a horror, or action movie. I have much more to say on this subject, so please post me a message about what criticizm you have about my ideas.

**Nturtle** · 06-25-2003, 10:57 AM

Hmmm... I've got a feeling this thread is going to get a little ugly, so either tone it down a notch or take the argument to the PMs, thanks.

*That Matt Guy* · 06-25-2003, 11:02 AM

How is it getting ugly? I think you just want to try out you're new Mod powers.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 11:14 AM

It could be a lot worse.

Burning In H2O · 06-25-2003, 11:19 AM

As Eye of Sarnath says, so far this is PG rated stuff. And I hope to keep it PG. And as a side note, I will move this it PMs if it does get anywhere out of hand. At the moment, it is mild.

Ghidorah2000 · 06-25-2003, 11:32 AM

All I can say is that out of all the Star Wars movies, ESB is the darkest and best of all of them. And what pathos Frank Oz gave to that Yoda Puppet. I think ESB Yoda was a much better performer than the CGI Yoda. You knew it was a puppet but Frank Oz gave that puppet so much life, so much empathy.....you could sense that there was a hidden pain within that "crude" puppet. It really says something about Frank Oz's performance when you can suspend your disbelief.

*That Matt Guy* · 06-25-2003, 11:33 AM

What is "dark" about the Empire Strikes Back? Just because they are in space the whole time???

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning In H2O

Karpo_007, it is a pity you are so self-centered... Siding with Eye of Sarnath, no where did he say that he didn't like 'dark" movies. Now as I bring back the subject of them, if I went to see a movie, I would not rate it on if it was a "dark" one. I would rate acting, plot, music, and depending on what kind of movie it is (reality fiction), I would also rate how real it actually is. Also, "Dark" movies are not "expressed" as you said. When someone blows up a huge spaceship they say "ooops" I don't hurry up and leave muttering to myself "Oh damn, it's not a dark movie." Listening to what you say you are a person who sits there and is happy beacuse after he explosion of the large spaceship happend there is a evil "Muhahaha." The occasional "ooops" adds the nice litte bit of comedy into a horror, or action movie. I have much more to say on this subject, so please post me a message about what criticizm you have about my ideas.

This is basicly diffrent thing, So I will reply. It seems you didn't read the posts, reread my reply again and see that I said "Sorry if you didn't meant it, I got that impression". And since you brought dark movies up again, I will explain it so that you understand better. Do you see little kids blowing space ships in Empire? No, it's not what he said after it, but it just made it look even more Disney movie than it already was. And what really makes me think you are self centered, is that you start to judge me as a person! Are you saying that Phantom Menaca was a dark movie? It certainly was not. Batman is a dark movie, and it has lot's of comedy in it, IE most of things with the Joker.

06-24-2003, 10:23 PM	#85
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	I'm afraid the issue isn't really open for debate. A fact in something that can be proven. An opinion can not be proven. Thinking something is "bad" or cheesy" is not a fact, simply because you can't prove it. But if I said, for example, that my avatar is yellow, that is a fact because you can prove it. People's definitions of what is "bad" or "cheesy" varies. You say that the Star Wars prequels have "cheesy" dialouge and "bad" acting, and yet some people think it's just fine. Your opinion is not a fact, and neither is mine. You can't argue a fact, but you can argue an opinion. Again, Arnold being a great character actor is an opinion, don't try to make it out to be otherwise. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 07:05 AM	#87
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	I don't believe I have ever met someone who so greatly believes their opinion to be fact. Okay, if the Star Wars prequels have cheesy writing and bad acting, prove it to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. If Arnold isn't a good character actor, prove it to me. You can give me reasons as to why to have your opinions on those topics, but you CAN NOT prove to me that either is fact. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 10:50 AM	#93
Burning In H2O Random Punk Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: at the bar Posts: 15	Karpo_007 Karpo_007, it is a pity you are so self-centered... Siding with Eye of Sarnath, no where did he say that he didn't like 'dark" movies. Now as I bring back the subject of them, if I went to see a movie, I would not rate it on if it was a "dark" one. I would rate acting, plot, music, and depending on what kind of movie it is (reality fiction), I would also rate how real it actually is. Also, "Dark" movies are not "expressed" as you said. When someone blows up a huge spaceship they say "ooops" I don't hurry up and leave muttering to myself "Oh damn, it's not a dark movie." Listening to what you say you are a person who sits there and is happy beacuse after he explosion of the large spaceship happend there is a evil "Muhahaha." The occasional "ooops" adds the nice litte bit of comedy into a horror, or action movie. I have much more to say on this subject, so please post me a message about what criticizm you have about my ideas.

06-25-2003, 10:57 AM	#94
Nturtle Ninja Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Technodrome Airducts Posts: 5,215	Hmmm... I've got a feeling this thread is going to get a little ugly, so either tone it down a notch or take the argument to the PMs, thanks. __________________ Fil rules. If Fil takes your 5 bucks then you should be eternally grateful that Fil would even borrow your money. Fil.

06-25-2003, 11:14 AM	#96
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	It could be a lot worse. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-24-2003, 06:21 PM	#84
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	No, As I say it goes with experience to lern to notice good and and not good acting. When you have watched enough movies you do know why Some people get oscars from acting and some doesn't. If it was an opinion, someone could say that Arnold Schwarznegger is a great character actor. And everyone with even a little experience about the world of movie knows that isn't true. Also about the underperforming, if you watch other movies of the actors in New episode, Liam Neeson for example,watch a movie called "Les Miserables" or even more in Schindler's List and you do know when he acts good. Or do the same with McGregor in "Transpointing". They are under performing in New episodes, a fact not an opinion. And I already said this about Lucas' direction, the actors them self has said he doesn't really direct the actors, like telling what they should do diffrently. And about Christensen's acting, prety much same as with mister Schwarznegger.

06-25-2003, 05:33 AM	#86
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Alredy wrote 2 long posts about it, not going to do another. If someone says Arnold is great character actor, it's clear he does not have experience on movies. Like I have told so many times, it goes with experience and how many movies you have watched. Is a movie good or bad, thats an opinion. Is someone underperforming, or juts plain acting bad, it's not.You need watch more movies from the same actor before you really know. Yes it does not bother all people, but those with Experience on movies Will learn to recocgnize it. Like I said, watch Schindler's List and Transpinting. After that you will know how Liam Neeson and Evan Mcgregor act on their best. And if you want to know what's brilliant writing, Let's sa few action movies, Watch Die Hard or Kninghts Tale. Well 2 movies with excellent writing might not be enough, but in time, like I said, you will learn recognize it. Yes someone can say that Arnold is a great character actor, or that my avatar has a cat in it. With experience on movies, and on animals you will learn to recognize that neither is true. Well it seems I made 3th long post after all.

06-25-2003, 07:54 AM	#88
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I have never met anyone else who says that what is cheesy writing is an opinion, or bad acting for that matter. Like I have said to many times already, WHEN you watch enough movies,you will learn to recognize it. From someone who hasn't it's inmpossible to "prove" since he may not know the diffrence. In these cases best I can do is give example movies they should compare The movies in question to, or in this case individual actor performances. Belive me, 5 years ago I wouldn't have made a diffrence between Robert De Niro or Arnold Arnold Schwarznegger. But after starting to get really into the movies, like watching classic movies and most of new movies that come in to theaters, I do now know without any doubt who is better actor. And yes, itis a fact. If Someone says Arnold acts better, he does not have enough experience on movies. Like I said, if you do not see the difrence between good and bad acting or brilliant and cheesy writing, compare the movies to exampels I gave you. Wich is a better movies, is always a matter of opinion, but wich movie has better writing is not. Also wich actor you think is better is a matter of opinion, but wich actor can act better is not. You keep incisting that these are only my opinion, and since you do, do you say Hayden is a good actor? Are you saying that writing in New star Wars movies is brilliant? Are you saying that the actors do not perform better in other movies? Hayden goes without proving, you don't need to have experience on movies to know that he can't really act. Watching episode 2 is enough. Star WArs movies are mainly action, so I compare it to other action movies. Compare it to Die Hard, and you will see the diffrence between cheesy and good writing. And About the actor performances, watch the movies I have listed before. If you do this, you have proven it to yourself. It's a diffrent thing if chseeys writing bothers you, than if it's there. I so know people that likes Episode 2 more than original trilogy[!] and even they won't deny these facts. You have not done anything else but said that these ae my opinions and not facts. I have no given you the way to prove them as facts yourself, It's your choice what you do with them. Even with these faults New Star Wars movies are good entertainment, but for these reasons they won't win Oscars, or won't be remembered after 20 years like original trilogy.

06-25-2003, 08:42 AM	#90
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I suspect you failed to read my last 4 posts. Im not forcing my opinion to anyone. If someone says Arnold is better actor than Al Pacino or Robert De Niro, Yes I can say his is wrong. Acting is interpreting a written character. AND yes it does matter how much you know about movies, when you do know enough, you will understand what Im talking about. Like I said in my previous post, it's diffrent thing to think Arnold is better actor than say he acts better. He is no a good actor, will never be, but thats not the point. Point is that it is a fact, not opinion that De Niro interprets charcaters better than Schwarznegger. If someone says otherwise, I can easily prove him wrong by telling: watch few of De niros movies and compare them to Arnold Schwarznegger's. Same goes with cheesy writing. It has everything to do how many movies you have seen, Like I have said too many times, you will learn to see the diffrence. I did. Brilliannt writing is imaginetive, and multidimensional. In SW movies it's flat. And this to can only be recognized after experience. If you like Writing in Star Wars, that is your opinion, but it does not make it brilliant. About Lucas' directing, Actors themselfs have proved that, enough said. And About Actor performances, You really need to see the movies I've mentioned to see the diffrence. This argument leads to no where, as you are unable accept that Good acting or writing is not a question of opinion. Neither is good Dancing for example. If someone constantly falls while dancing, or steps on His Partner's feet, he isn't a good dancer. It's a fact, not opinion. Same goes about writing. When you learn to understand this, you will learn why Some movies get Oscars and some don't. I have given you more examples, but this is movies we are atliing about, moving pictures. Words can not not prove it, and I understand that. Thats why I have given you the example movies. You need to see them, and compare them to New Star Wars. Thats the only way It can be proved.

06-25-2003, 09:25 AM	#92
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Yes I do know about the forums. And I do know the level of dicussion there, much like the infamous GameFaqs forums for TMNT. It certainly isn't a good thing. My arguments are much stronger than yours, you don't have other except "No, Its ypour opinion, not a fact". Now even you start attacking my credibility. If something, that shoud not be taken seriously. I have said nothing wrong, But I have better things to do than argue with someone who does not even try to prove anything wrong, but gives comments like "I am finding it increasingly more difficult to take you seriously". After reading that feel exactly that about you. You made a personal atack, So I will end the discussion here. There is no point trying to prove something to somen who has clearly decided that "You are wrong, whatever you say". Last thing I will say to this matter, I do like Commando much more than Titanic, But I do know that Acting, Writing and story is far better in Titanic, trust me, it's not my opinion. Im not going to debate with someone who instead of makig arguments, starts to attack personally. So This s my last post here. Please, Now write as much as you want how you can't take me seriously, how I am wrong. Knock yourself out. I will just agree to disagree, without attacking you. If someone wants to discuss about New episodes rather than My opions/facts, I will reply, I always enjoy discussing about Star Wars. But I will not write another post about this argument, no matter how "you can't take me seriously".

06-25-2003, 11:02 AM	#95
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	How is it getting ugly? I think you just want to try out you're new Mod powers.

06-25-2003, 11:19 AM	#97
Burning In H2O Random Punk Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: at the bar Posts: 15	As Eye of Sarnath says, so far this is PG rated stuff. And I hope to keep it PG. And as a side note, I will move this it PMs if it does get anywhere out of hand. At the moment, it is mild. __________________ If a bus station is where a bus stops, and a train station is where a train stops, why do I have a work station on my desk?

06-25-2003, 11:32 AM	#98
Ghidorah2000 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Monster Island Posts: 189	All I can say is that out of all the Star Wars movies, ESB is the darkest and best of all of them. And what pathos Frank Oz gave to that Yoda Puppet. I think ESB Yoda was a much better performer than the CGI Yoda. You knew it was a puppet but Frank Oz gave that puppet so much life, so much empathy.....you could sense that there was a hidden pain within that "crude" puppet. It really says something about Frank Oz's performance when you can suspend your disbelief. __________________ Tom Servo: It's just a simple matter of "What the h* is going on?!"**

06-25-2003, 11:33 AM	#99
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	What is "dark" about the Empire Strikes Back? Just because they are in space the whole time???