April and her development

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

April and Her Bra Size.

*taps foot*

but seriously!! >:U what?

[LittleBlueHero]

Not entirely relevant but I thought I would mention that in the new ongoing Animated Comic Series from IDW the first issue is all about April.

About her training, her independent nature and occasional disregard for authority, not to mention her incredibly quick thinking skills when in a jam.

I feel like at her age April is trying to figure out who she is as much as we are, the show hasn't touched on it much but the new comic has got the right idea.

Give it a read if you are an April fan for sure.

[drgon78]

Which comic?

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by LittleBlueHero

Not entirely relevant but I thought I would mention that in the new ongoing Animated Comic Series from IDW the first issue is all about April.

About her training, her independent nature and occasional disregard for authority, not to mention her incredibly quick thinking skills when in a jam.

I feel like at her age April is trying to figure out who she is as much as we are, the show hasn't touched on it much but the new comic has got the right idea.

Give it a read if you are an April fan for sure.

...darn...I need to read it....T^T

[LittleBlueHero]

Originally Posted by drgon78

Which comic?

[drgon78]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Last night I suddenly had a feeling of bad juju: Pretty sure 2012 April is actually a Canon Sue.

[Luckyday]

Is it because of the psychic stuff that she had shown?

[Captain PunchYouHard]

I think she's very Canon Sue on a whole in the sense that she's exactly the kind of character that most girls would write as a Mary Sue. Someone might pick a different turtle to bone (or all of them), but all the hallmarks are there:

-Love interest with an attractive character
-Strong, good-looking, independent (Red hair and blue eyes is classic Mary Sue, but I'll give them a pass since the original April was a redhead.)
-Plays "hard to get" with love interest
-Latent powers (as you mentioned) and/or gets to do the same cool stuff as the main chars (Splinter training her)
-Another female character gets jealous of her (Did anyone else notice that with Karai?)

[BubblyShell22]

Karai wasn't jealous of her. She just couldn't understand why April was so special and why the Kraang wanted her as she didn't see anything special about April when she met her. And not all Mary Sues are bad. Actually, I think this April isn't really a Sue at all considering that most Mary Sues tend to welcome the love interest right off the bat and pretty much jump said Turtle in question, whereas April hasn't done that. Also, they tend to be more skilled than the Turtles in ninjitsu, and April certainly isn't as skilled as they are. So, for most of your points, I totally have to disagree.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Karai's reaction seemed so...angry. It really registered as jealousy rather than simple curiosity to me.

It depends on the complexity of the Mary Sue - I've seen some people set up an entire angst/hard to get relationship because they love the drama, while probably most Mary Sues are more simplistic. I've also seen more "realistic" Mary Sues where the "heroine" is nothing amazing in skills or powers, but a Mary Sue nevertheless. It depends on the author.

I come from an era of fanfic writing when Mary Sues were something to be embarrassed about, and I still view them with mild exasperation and disgust, honestly. I think all fans have some kind of proto-Mary Sue or Gary Stu going mentally; I just missed the transition when it became acceptable for everyone to wallpaper the Internet with them. A Canon Sue isn't so bad, though.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

And not all Mary Sues are bad. Actually, I think this April isn't really a Sue at all considering that most Mary Sues tend to welcome the love interest right off the bat and pretty much jump said Turtle in question, whereas April hasn't done that. Also, they tend to be more skilled than the Turtles in ninjitsu, and April certainly isn't as skilled as they are. So, for most of your points, I totally have to disagree.

I completely disagree that not all Mary Sues are bad; for me, they ruin a story to a huge degree, but I agree with everything else. The "April is a Mary-Sue" argument keeps dredging up, but honestly, it remains bunk. Here are some counterpoints:
•Mary Sues tend to become the focus of the plot. April isn't even in that many episodes.
•Mary Sues are defined by excessive amounts of talents. April has one gift, which helps at just a few things.
•Mary Sues typically don't have an explanation for their abilities; April does, though we haven't seen it yet.
•The measure of a Mary Sue is often based on her surrounding universe. Having a sixth sense, and the abilities that come with it, might make someone a Mary Sue in a high school drama, but in a show where just about everyone fights, with excessive strength, endurance, and weapons, it's just enough to squeak by.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Not a Mary Sue, a Canon Sue. And I'm willing to be a little more charitable and say that Nick was trying to appeal to female viewers.

[Konchadunga]

Is there a difference?

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

I completely disagree that not all Mary Sues are bad; for me, they ruin a story to a huge degree, but I agree with everything else. The "April is a Mary-Sue" argument keeps dredging up, but honestly, it remains bunk. Here are some counterpoints:
•Mary Sues tend to become the focus of the plot. April isn't even in that many episodes.
•Mary Sues are defined by excessive amounts of talents. April has one gift, which helps at just a few things.
•Mary Sues typically don't have an explanation for their abilities; April does, though we haven't seen it yet.
•The measure of a Mary Sue is often based on her surrounding universe. Having a sixth sense, and the abilities that come with it, might make someone a Mary Sue in a high school drama, but in a show where just about everyone fights, with excessive strength, endurance, and weapons, it's just enough to squeak by.

I guess I'm the type to say that what one reader feels is a Mary Sue may not be the same as another reader. I'm just saying that one author labeled her character a Mary Sue, yet I saw nothing that screamed "Mary Sue" to me, and I really liked the character. For me, as long as a character is likeable and doesn't detract from the Turtles in any way, then she's not a Mary Sue. But this discussion about fan fiction isn't for this topic, so I won't go any further on it.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

A Canon Sue is a Mary Sue that's written in by the actual creator (or in this case, the writers who inherited the rights to the story). It has all the traits of a Mary Sue, but at least is masturbation via your own work rather than via fanfiction. It doesn't bother me nearly as much, probably because they do tell you to write what you know.

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I guess I'm the type to say that what one reader feels is a Mary Sue may not be the same as another reader. I'm just saying that one author labeled her character a Mary Sue, yet I saw nothing that screamed "Mary Sue" to me, and I really liked the character. For me, as long as a character is likeable and doesn't detract from the Turtles in any way, then she's not a Mary Sue. But this discussion about fan fiction isn't for this topic, so I won't go any further on it.

I really respect you for being willing to read other people's Mary Sues, and being so openminded about the subject in general. That's an admirable lack of prejudice in my mind. I wish I could be more like you!

[drgon78]

April is not a "Marry Sue", a Marry Sue has no flaws, is at least competent if not skilled in everything she tries, cannot fail, very knowledgeable, will not lie, steal, or cheat, etc.

Marry Poppins is a more of a Marry Sue then April could ever be.

[Captain PunchYouHard]

Originally Posted by drgon78

April is not a "Marry Sue", a Marry Sue has no flaws, is at least competent if not skilled in everything she tries, cannot fail, very knowledgeable, will not lie, steal, or cheat, etc.

Marry Poppins is a more of a Marry Sue then April could ever be.

I define a Mary Sue as any character based on oneself that's inserted into fanfiction, fanart, etc. Most people seem to call them "OCs" now, but I think that's just a rebranding now that Mary Sue is a derogatory term.

ETA: Well, technically if it's male it's a Gary Stu.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Doom Cookie

I define a Mary Sue as any character based on oneself that's inserted into fanfiction, fanart, etc. Most people seem to call them "OCs" now, but I think that's just a rebranding now that Mary Sue is a derogatory term.

ETA: Well, technically if it's male it's a Gary Stu.

Honestly 2007 and 2003 April was sort of a MAry Sue, able to learn ninjustsu in less then a few months and able to karai

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Honestly 2007 and 2003 April was sort of a MAry Sue, able to learn ninjustsu in less then a few months and able to karai

There are a few problems with that statement. First, they're not the same character. Second, 2003 April took more than months to learn to fight well. The things I'd argue kind of qualifie her for the designation are her easy adaptation to jungle life and her possession of high mental abilities as well as physical ones, but even then, she had obvious limits and couldn't handle greater-than-human threats on her own. Third, it was a decade and a half between the third movie (where April could already fight a bit) to the fourth; that's arguably more time than the turtles took to learn the skills they had as of the first movie, and hence most definitely enough time for April to hone her skills. Four, you forgot a verb.

Now I'm not saying it was right for April to be able to beat Karai, but I see it less as a problem with her getting tougher and more one of Karai being bastardized. Seasons of the 2003 show had taken her image from Mirage's muscle-bound, enemy-slaying-but-otherwise-peaceable badass leader, to a sniveling misguided wannabe overlord always riding on Shredder's coat-tail and/or legacy--and movie Shredder wasn't so tough himself.