Why do long-time fans still have mixed reactions to Nick's TMNT?

[Slime State Alumni]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

Pretty much, yeah.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Karai Samurai

But isn't his crush on April part of the reason why he's such an interesting character? Sometimes the crush thing goes too far (Monkey Brains...) but the sense of responsibility he's developed to April and her father is what makes Donnie so likeable. Plus the crush stuff emphasizes the teenage part in TMNT.

I agree that April needs more development, but it seems like Ciro is wary of that because he's afraid of her getting "too powerful." That sucks.

Originally Posted by Bossa Nova

I guess it depends on your interpretation of interesting. I've always found Don interesting in past versions. His crush on April doesn't make him more interesting to me, instead I'm finding more and more that my favorite turtle comes off as embarrassing, overly awkward, and downright creepy stalkerish, and I'm not really sure I like him all that much when April's around. Don's responsibility for April's dad could have still been a strong driving element for his growth and character seeing as he's the only one with the scientific know-how to do even begin working on something like, and his whole 'I'm doing it cause I love her' factor would never even have to come into play. Instead, Don would be developing into someone who takes responsibility for his actions, not just another fanboy trying to get some girl to like him.

That's why I'm critical of how shows do shipping because most of the time it seems to restrict character growth and makes them more one-dimensional (with Nick Donnie, overemphasis on the crush dialogue) rather than make the characters self-reflect about their own personalities (i.e. Ninjara with Archie Raphael). But it's not surprising since this is a kids' show, and its rare that they would explore dating relationships since kids would see it as "that grown up icky stuff" and involves "cooties".

Originally Posted by Leonardo_

A mother figure? Maybe I have missed something?...To me she only was a whiney woman, that wasnt able to look out for herself (especially in the OT) and in almost every episode the turtles had to rescue her. Additionally she was often groaning how immature the turtles were. Then she had nothing different in mind than her stories.....Sorry..I dont want to see that anymore. If thats what fans want...no thanks. Her role was senseless...in the OT at least. In the 2003 toon she was weird as well.

A teen April is better in my eyes. Its something different..something new. Why not giving it a chance?!

If it wasn't for OT April, the Turtles wouldn't be able to get most of their information of the outside world. (Her role was clearly established when Splinter emphasized they needed her contacts and skills as a reporter in the third OT episode, "A Thing About Rats".) As for her "nothing different in mind than her stories"? I'm sure many people would react that way about their work, if they worked for a demanding boss like Burne Thompson who threatened firing their employees all the time and a work schedule that demands being the first source of updated, exclusive information.

As for teen April, we'll see how it develops but if it was merely to be a peer of the Turtles (and therefore a chance for her to be involved with the Turtles), then it would be a hollow unsatisfying change as Leo656 was alluding to earlier.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by Bossa Nova

I guess it depends on your interpretation of interesting. I've always found Don interesting in past versions. His crush on April doesn't make him more interesting to me, instead I'm finding more and more that my favorite turtle comes off as embarrassing, overly awkward, and downright creepy stalkerish, and I'm not really sure I like him all that much when April's around. Don's responsibility for April's dad could have still been a strong driving element for his growth and character seeing as he's the only one with the scientific know-how to do even begin working on something like, and his whole 'I'm doing it cause I love her' factor would never even have to come into play. Instead, Don would be developing into someone who takes responsibility for his actions, not just another fanboy trying to get some girl to like him.

He's not doing it because he loves her though. He's doing it because they were responsible, and he's probably the only one that can do it and it's what's right.His theory is not "if I turn her dad back she'll like me" he's doing it to give her dad back, not to get her to like him. It's the same as with Timothy. He's not changing him back for any reason other than he feels responsible.

[BubblyShell22]

LeotheLateBloomer, Tim is not Newtralizer. He's Mutagen Man. You made a mistake there and should fix that.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

LeotheLateBloomer, Tim is not Newtralizer. He's Mutagen Man. You made a mistake there and should fix that.

Yeah, my mistake. I fixed it just now.

[Krang100]

In the begining, i didn't like the idea about April and Karai's deaged. Ironically, the video game based on this like TMNT out of the shadows, shows an adult version of April and Karai as well.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Krang100

In the begining, i didn't like the idea about April and Karai's deaged. Ironically, the video game based on this like TMNT out of the shadows, shows an adult version of April and Karai as well.

In TMNT out of the shadows she was still a teen

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

In TMNT out of the shadows she was still a teen

No...? She was a young adult there.

Plus Out of the Shadows wasn't based on any specific version, but used a lot of Nick references, so it kinda made sense to use adult April and Karai, since that's how they're most commonly portrayed.

[Garfield]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

The number one problem I have with it is that, while this show is trying to be something of it's own, I think there are times when it tries to be a bit fan-pandering. While I stated that I like the changes that they've made to some of the characters to the show, I can't help but feel that Ciro and the folks are just adding characters from the property for the sake of getting praise from the fans. Kirby did not need to be Wingnut because it served no purpose with how the mutant is. He could have been a totally new character like "Man Bat". Why exactly is Timothy called the Mutagen Man in this show. Mutagen Man was never even a popular character to begin with. And Pizza Face,.....uh, why are we bringing this never-heard-of character back again. I'm pleased that Ciro has respect for the old cartoon, I don't like the idea of him bringing back characters for the sake of fan-service. If you're going to do that, reinvent them to make them more interesting or relatable to the plot. It just goes into the whole identity issue this show suffers from.

This is my sentiment as well. Probably the only thing that I'd say sticks out as REALLY annoying to me.

I'm a long time TMNT fan and i'm mostly indifferent to this cartoon. Its okay, I have personal standards and I'm not going to like everything TMNT related. This cartoon is a fun watch from time to time, but for what it is, I can't get passionately into it. Its okay. a lot of other people really enjoy it and i'm very glad for that.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I do indeed like this show and some prefer it over the previous cartoons for whatever reason. While some see the new changes that they've made as interesting, on the other hand, you have to look at it from a hardcore TMNT fan's perspective.

Without being a biased fanboy of one incarnation, here's some of my problems with the show.

The number one problem I have with it is that, while this show is trying to be something of it's own, I think there are times when it tries to be a bit fan-pandering. While I stated that I like the changes that they've made to some of the characters to the show, I can't help but feel that Ciro and the folks are just adding characters from the property for the sake of getting praise from the fans. Kirby did not need to be Wingnut because it served no purpose with how the mutant is. He could have been a totally new character like "Man Bat". Why exactly is Timothy called the Mutagen Man in this show. Mutagen Man was never even a popular character to begin with. And Pizza Face,.....uh, why are we bringing this never-heard-of character back again. I'm pleased that Ciro has respect for the old cartoon, I don't like the idea of him bringing back characters for the sake of fan-service. If you're going to do that, reinvent them to make them more interesting or relatable to the plot. It just goes into the whole identity issue this show suffers from.

April being a teenager is actually a unique idea. It helps her become more active with the turtles. And I'm actually like the strained relationship between her the turtles because it shows a bit of belief in the story and that they now have to find a way to fix this mess. Now I can see why some people are used to a more adult April and I am one of them but I think it's a unique idea and concept. With that said though, the only problem I have with her is that she doesn't seem to do a whole lot for the turtles despite being leagues ahead of the OT April. Certain episodes just seem to build her up as a character but the way she is used in the show, she seems to be just there. She really hasn't done anything unique to help the turtles or even the story for the matter. I think there is a lot more they can do with this character but that's up to them figure out how they can make it work.

Again, this is just my opinion.

naming kirby wingnut was unecessary. but i can see why he would do it. kirby mutated into a bat, theres a mutant bat in tmnt, as far as we know, that wont be appearing in this series, so why not throw in one line referring to the character.

with mutagen man though, it doesnt matter that he was unpopular. if anything thats more incentive to add him. it gave him a new take, new look, new tragic backstory. its not like he took a carbon copy of the unpopular old one and threw it in this series. he took an old character, and developed a different interpretation of it.

with april, i have to disagree and say she has contributed to the story. her situation drove the turtles to take on the kraang, to get her father. her connection to the kraang gave the turtles reason to defend her. so she has helped the story.

as for helping the turtles, yeah she hasnt done much. but shes done what she could for the time. she spied on shredder and got the information on how he was going to blow up the sewers. she found out about the mutagen bomb. she helped them locate the kraang ship. she delivered leatherhead to tcri. she also told raph where to find leo and karai. some of these are significant, some arent, but in her situation, shes done what her character could do at the time.

but with that, there is definitely a lot more she can do now, and i hope they develop that.

[rodster6]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

God how I wish this thread was locked.

Why does it need to be locked? If you don't like it you can just ignore it. There is no rule that you have to read it or post in it.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by rodster6

Why does it need to be locked? If you don't like it you can just ignore it. There is no rule that you have to read it or post in it.

Cybercubed lives to lock threads. If he was mod, 79% of the threads here would have been locked or deleted.

[CyberCubed]

Because this is nothing more than a complaint thread acting like long term fans dislike the show when it couldn't be further from the truth.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because this is nothing more than a complaint thread acting like long term fans dislike the show when it couldn't be further from the truth.

But there ARE long term fans that dislike the show. Not everyone's opinion matches yours dude. Think outside the damn box for once.

[rodster6]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because this is nothing more than a complaint thread acting like long term fans dislike the show when it couldn't be further from the truth.

Don't read it then? Can't censor every opinion in the world you don't agree with.

I've never really liked April and could happily have lived without her in any TMNT cartoons but I don't know how anyone could argue the original cartoon version was better than the new series version. All she did in the old cartoon was get in the way and get captured. At least the new one has character development and more personality.
I'm fine with her falling out with the Turtles too. People have fallings out and relationships break down no matter how close they are or have been. Though I am biased as I don't really care for April, the longer they feud the less screen time she gets.

[The Sewer Lord]

As a long time fan, there are lots of things I dislike about Nick TMNT. Most of time, these flaws don't bother me to the point that I can't bear to see even a glimpse of an episode. However, this new, second, season though, has many flaws which make the show even worse. Compared to its precedessor, this season is very, very bad. I won't call it garbage, but if this is how the rest of the season will be like, then it definetely is. And no, this is not because of April's de-aging (which also brings Karai and Casey to the mix). Although the de-aging changes the way the chracter gets developed, it still doesn't change what the writer want to receive from it.

Anyway, here's a list of all the things I dislike about the show:

• A frequent move made by the writers in this series is to simply forget about an arc still in progress so that another one can develop, grow and become more complex. What's up with that? I know the show tries to joggle around with multiple arcs at the same time which exist all at the same time, simply forgetting about one arc so that another can develop is a very bad move. It's simply wrong. Here are a few examples:
  
  1. April's heritige and origin. In the first season, there's something special about April and her mind powers that the Kraang could put to their use. She has very powerful telepathy, she's immune to Kraang water... but the writers never explain why. Where did she get these powers from? This was simply forgotten and the first season finale. She's now safe and there's no need to explain where she got these powers from. Which is kinda dumb.
  2. Leonardo is in love with Karai. But after "Karai's Vendetta", there's no mention of this! Leonardo is no longer in denial, Raph doesn't confront him about it... nothing. And then Splinter reveales to him Karai is his daughter. What? They never show how Leo reacts to this. He's totally fine that he's in love with his step-sister! And there's no reaction from the other turtles either!
  3. Mikey and Bradford's relationship. The two were "friends" a long time, why don't the other characters aknoweledge this? Not even by Mickey and Bradford themselves! This could have used as a great development tool in "Mickey Gets Shellacne". But we didn't get it. Sadly.
  
  That's simply silly.
  
• The show often never explains what exactly is going on. Somethings are left unexplained, with no explanation where did these things come from or how they work, why do they work... nothing. Here are a few examples:
  
  1. The mutagen. They never explain how it works, what the Kraang want it to do, why do is do things... all we get is "It's unpredictable!" Seriously? That's your big explanation!? This mutagen never follows a pattern: in one episode, in fuses creatures of two species; in another, it burn your skins; in a different one, it gives you telepathy (although they did say Dr. Falco made some changes to the mutagen); in yet a different one, it turns you into an alien... there's no explanation how the circumstances affect the product of the mutagen.
  2. What is the opinion of every average Joe about crazy mutants roaming around the city? Aren't people freaked out that they see mutants daily trying to eat them or kill them? Snakeweed, the monkey doctor, Ball-- I mean Spiderbytez, Justin, the cockroach... Aren't the authorities worried? No contamination of the city? Seriously?
  3. How does that battery from "I Think His Name Is Baxter Stockman" work? On what does it work? Magic!? Seriously - that thing simply attached to Baxter suit and turned it into a giant powerful tank. The episode seriously undermined Baxter's genius as simply a automatic - even though later on, without having that battery, he still made more powerful and better tech than before. That's utterly silly? Where did Donnie actually find that thing? He simply found it in the garbage!?
  4. Like I said before, April's powers.
  
  Logic? Where are you going? Oh, he's going through the window.
  
• The villains often get some very silly designes and names. Take a look at Spiderbytez. He's name makes no sense. If he was the one that got merged with tech, then it would have made sense. You know, "bite" and "byte"? And take a look at his design. He looks like a bowling ball. With arms. And legs. And-- whatever those are. And Snakeweed. I would have understood if he was a by-product of bith snakes and weed, but because he was called "Snake"? Serously? Although I have to say, the name does sound catchy.
  
• This new, second, season, has been trying to introduce a development web, a situation where all the characters' development are connected to each other and relying on each other. If one chracter changes, then the another does. One change leads to a hundred new more. Of course, I have to aplaud the writers for having the sheer guts to do something like this instead of less complicated development. Of couse, they have great ideas of what to do and how for the characters to change, but they're not executing it well. Here are a few examples:
  
  1. The Leo-Splinter-Karai relationship I mentioned before.
  2. Bradford development started to occur too late. Development is not something that occurs in just one episode, it's something that takes places ove episodes and seasons. But this episode introduces us to Bradford problems. The thing is, they should have done this before! We should've seen how the character grows tired of the situation to reach the one we see in "Mikey Gets Shellacne". Also, they should've shown his reactions to his absense in the dojo. That would've been even better development. Although his development was simply great.
  3. In "Mikey Gets Shellacne", the humor overshadowed Mikey's development. Of course humor is needed when developing this version of Mikey, but that was simply too much.
  4. In the first season of the show, April was simply a plot device. She wasn't a character. She was simply there for Donnie to love and Kraang to chase. It was great to see that the writers have decided to take a new direction with the character and simply develop her. That moment at the end of the season premiere was simply great! But with "Mutagen Man Unleashed", the character was simply ruined. She turned into a jerk and an idiot when she refused to help the turtles, even though they saved her multiple times. Yes, she can be mad, they mutated her father, but let's not forget they saved him in the first place.
  
  This bad ways of developing the show are making me dislike the show more and more. If the show continues like this, I might quit watching it.

And that's pretty much it. I haven't seen "Target: April O'Neil", so there might be something redeeming the show about it.

[Refractive Reflections]

The Sewer Lord, most of the reasons you listed are why the show is becoming progressively disappointing for me, except instead of having these reasons all in one post, they are scattered throughout the Nick forum.

The series does have a few good episodes: "The Gauntlet", "Baxter's Gambit", and "Follow the Leader", but its a jilting experience when 2-3 episodes later the series undermines those developments by either ignoring the character arcs (not expanding on Dogpound's character), making the character forget about what they learned/witnessed (Mikey using the mutagen on "Mikey Gets Shellacne"), and being negligent in adhering to some form of universal laws that they have created or at least implied from earlier (i.e. the Nick mutagen).

For me, the "Mikey Gets Shellacne" episode is probably going to be noted as creating a "tarnishing spot" upon the series because there's really no excuse on why Mikey used that mutagen. Mikey's behavior diminishes the intense drama/darkness the show was priding itself on earlier (Timothy's mutation in "The Pulverizer Returns"). If somebody makes an argument the series has character growth, at least with Mikey, that episode would contradict that claim. For all I know things could change completely in the direction of the show, but for now that situation clearly displays the lack of progressive character growth, with Mikey at least...

I still have to watch "Target: April O' Neil", but in my opinion, it's a bit worrisome and unusual that more people are interested and excited for whatever new created villains, numerous TMNT franchise references, and possible shipping this series makes, rather than people being just as excited or more so for the plot, characters, etc. It just makes the series more hollow and flamboyant when the audience is supposed to be dazzled by the new imaginative mutants, TMNT references, and fight scenes but yet the characters stagnate or regress from their experiences (Mikey's experience with mutagen), or the series flies right past that without exploring it (Dogpound's character era).

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well you are correct with Mutagen Man. He is unique in his own right and I like what they are doing with him in this new series. However, bringing back old characters for the sake of appeasing us is not helping the show stand out. Old characters should be brought back in a unique way. Like the Foot Soldiers (Foot Bots) in this series show skill and progression the more they take damage. As robots, they learn from the master and try to replicate it successfully. Also, The one nitpick I had with today's episode was using the "Chrome Dome" name on the robot just because it debuted in the 1987 toon. At this point, I'm more looking forward to the new mutants of the show like the Tiger one.

[The Sewer Lord]

Originally Posted by JYX

The Sewer Lord, most of the reasons you listed are why the show is becoming progressively disappointing for me, except instead of having these reasons all in one post, they are scattered throughout the Nick forum.

I'm making an OK face right now.
But seriously, but I have seen a lot of fan wanks similar to mine. But I still haven't seen anyone other than me mention the villain's names and designes.

The series does have a few good episodes: "The Gauntlet", "Baxter's Gambit", and "Follow the Leader", but its a jilting experience when 2-3 episodes later the series undermines those developments by either ignoring the character arcs (not expanding on Dogpound's character), making the character forget about what they learned/witnessed (Mikey using the mutagen on "Mikey Gets Shellacne"), and being negligent in adhering to some form of universal laws that they have created or at least implied from earlier (i.e. the Nick mutagen).

That pretty mcuh is a short version of my first point.

For me, the "Mikey Gets Shellacne" episode is probably going to be noted as creating a "tarnishing spot" upon the series because there's really no excuse on why Mikey used that mutagen. Mikey's behavior diminishes the intense drama/darkness the show was priding itself on earlier (Timothy's mutation in "The Pulverizer Returns"). If somebody makes an argument the series has character growth, at least with Mikey, that episode would contradict that claim. For all I know things could change completely in the direction of the show, but for now that situation clearly displays the lack of progressive character growth, with Mikey at least...

I still have to watch "Target: April O' Neil", but in my opinion, it's a bit worrisome and unusual that more people are interested and excited for whatever new created villains, numerous TMNT franchise references, and possible shipping this series makes, rather than people being just as excited or more so for the plot, characters, etc. It just makes the series more hollow and flamboyant when the audience is supposed to be dazzled by the new imaginative mutants, TMNT references, and fight scenes but yet the characters stagnate or regress from their experiences (Mikey's experience with mutagen), or the series flies right past that without exploring it (Dogpound's character era).

You're absolutely correct.

I am now left speeechless. No really. I got nothing to reply to you anymore.

[The Sewer Lord]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Well you are correct with Mutagen Man. He is unique in his own right and I like what they are doing with him in this new series.

Mutagen Man is better in this series than he was in the OT. I liked the OT version too, but this one stands out.

However, bringing back old characters for the sake of appeasing us is not helping the show stand out. Old characters should be brought back in a unique way. Like the Foot Soldiers (Foot Bots) in this series show skill and progression the more they take damage. As robots, they learn from the master and try to replicate it successfully. Also, The one nitpick I had with today's episode was using the "Chrome Dome" name on the robot just because it debuted in the 1987 toon.

True, true.

At this point, I'm more looking forward to the new mutants of the show like the Tiger one.

Oh, you mean Tigerclaw?