Turtle Turncoat

[Eiko]

Well done Tony on finishing your amazing comic highly enjoyed it.

[cartoonistaaron]

This thing is incredible! I've been self publishing for a little while now, so I know the sheer amount of effort that goes into putting something like this together. The art, the lettering, the writing, everything. It's mind boggling. It looks fantastic, it reads well, and frankly I enjoyed the artwork in Turtle Turncoat more than I've enjoyed the art in any of the "official" TMNT comics that have come out in the past several years.

Good work!! Nice job!!

[Refractive Reflections]

**Standing ovation for Tony Day***

That was a great, epic TMNT comic series Tony Day. I only wish I could have known about it earlier, but it’s okay. All of your hard work and effort was really displayed in the colors, rich detail, and formatting the comic and story for on-the-spot dramatic effects and suspense. Without a doubt this fan comic work is professional level stuff and if you’re not a comic artist, I hope others who are in the business acknowledge your work and leads to job opportunities if you are really interested in pursuing it.

Thank you for the exciting, adventurous journey…though I have to admit I was laaaateee only knowing about it 2-3 months ago through the Technodrome forums. LOL As for my thoughts on the ending, I like it because it was open-ended but it wasn’t too ominous or threatening where we have to worry about Raphael’s future but it does hint at a possible conflict with Shredder, as both Raphael and Shredder would be fighting with each to take control of the Foot Clan. Almost a civil war of sorts…

The last panels left a powerful effect of who Raphael’s TRUE master was…despite his betrayal to him. I was kind of getting a courageous “captain of the ship” leadership symbolism occurring here with Raphael in that “Captain Morgan” stance since he would be leading the Foot Clan…eventually and not... Leonardo..?? Interesting to speculate on... but I guess it would make sense since Raphael would be more devoted in restoring the Foot Clan considering Raphael's betrayal and feeling more pressured to "right his wrongs". (It's that type of devote, passionate behavior that makes me enjoy Raphael's character despite his hotheadedness.)

As for the sequel…LOL… I’m content with or without one because the comic had an excellent ending.

As I said before, I’m glad you added a more mature tone to the combined OT/First Arcade universe in this comic because it gave more profound moments but yet was able to not make it too intensely gory or depressing which some comics tend to deviate and dive further and further into. You were able to balance the entertainment value and seriousness of it, so that it would not be too heavy/emotionally taxing or too light/forgettable.

Thank you also for completing your comic too! Which I greatly appreciate, knowing it took 12 YEARS! (Now that's dedication!) I can’t tell you how many fan comics or especially fanfiction stories just abruptly stop and it feels like somebody ripped out the last 1/3 of a good novel. (I’m trying to finish a rough draft of my OT fanfiction story FIRST to avoid this and writing myself “into a corner”, LOL, but it’s evolving into more of a novel than a story. I would honored, whenever I get to finishing it and posting it online, for your opinion on it in the future.)

So all the more reason to applaud your work!! I have to admit though I’m gonna have to remind myself to not always check up on an update in the future. All the best Tony Day and well done!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by JLS

Thank you also for completing your comic too! Which I greatly appreciate, knowing it took 12 YEARS! (Now that's dedication!) I can’t tell you how many fan comics or especially fanfiction stories just abruptly stop and it feels like somebody ripped out the last 1/3 of a good novel. (I’m trying to finish a rough draft of my OT fanfiction story FIRST to avoid this and writing myself “into a corner”, LOL, but it’s evolving into more of a novel than a story. I would honored, whenever I get to finishing it and posting it online, for your opinion on it in the future.)

You're writing 1987 show fanfiction? Cool!

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

You're writing 1987 show fanfiction? Cool!

LOL, yeah I am...
The reason I say "novel" is because I'm about 30-35% done and its already 120,000 words. It's going to have some darker elements to it, but it won't knock out the OT tone that we enjoyed...though it will be substantially more introspective for each Turtle individually and as a whole group.

I don't wanna reveal the plot though....I want to keep it as a surprise.

[ZariusTwo]

Cool beans dude. I just wrapped up a 80s TMNT script/novella myself, glad there's more on the way (even if it is darker).

And congratulations to Tony, the final shot reminded me a bit of "Ninja Tribunal", and the open-endedness makes it a playground for future tales from just about anyone. I think you'll find a lot of keen minds will want to play around with what you set up at the end of this. I didnt agree with a lot of this comic's direction, but you are one of the best TMNT artists in the free market and you brought the story to life with a real passion on display, I'm glad you stuck it out over the years and even more glad you pleased so many people in the effort. Good job.

[Tony Day]

Thanx everyone for the kind comments. It makes me kinda warm and fuzzy inside

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

GET IN LINE
(Rofl kidding, I already have someone doing illustrations for me, but getting Tony to do one would be a real plus for any writer on here)

Sorry guys... taking a break for a bit. But only a bit. Anyways, Who knows what the future might hold...

Originally Posted by JLS

**Standing ovation for Tony Day***
I would be honored, whenever I get to finishing it and posting it online, for your opinion on it in the future.)
So all the more reason to applaud your work!! I have to admit though I’m gonna have to remind myself to not always check up on an update in the future. All the best Tony Day and well done!

I got more time on my hands now. So whenever ya ready (or anyone else for that matter) direct me to a link and I’ll give it a gander.


On another note. Got an email from a Russian reader called Maria Nistratkina. She’s only gone and translated my entire comic into Russian. It’s very flattering I must say.
Here’s a link:
http://www.ninjaturtles.ru/forum/tmn...-4-t21223.html
I ran a few of the comments through Google translator and although about 70% of them like Turncoat some of them are quite harsh, Calling it too aggressive, plastic looking or comparing it to Hentai lol. Maybe something was lost in translation though.
They Make Zarius criticisms seem tame (I do like abit of constructive criticism as it goes. Don’t worry Zarius I still love ya.)
Laterz
Tony

www.trydowave.com

[ZariusTwo]

Awesome to hear. I wouldnt worry so much about harsh criticism, you've acheived a divisive set of opinions, and that's usually the hallmark of a talent that knows how to create a buzz with his work.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Tony Day

I ran a few of the comments through Google translator and although about 70% of them like Turncoat some of them are quite harsh, Calling it too aggressive, plastic looking or comparing it to Hentai lol. Maybe something was lost in translation though.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Awesome to hear. I wouldnt worry so much about harsh criticism, you've acheived a divisive set of opinions, and that's usually the hallmark of a talent that knows how to create a buzz with his work.

Ehhh....don't worry about that criticism Tony Day. Those are the only criticisms? Too aggressive? Plastic looking? I know the tone of the comic wasn't as gentle as the OT TV series, but after going through the first comic book it clearly establishes how serious/dark the comic will be. It's not like you abruptly changed it in the middle the comic. And plastic looking? It's a fanwork, I wish the 70% of TMNT comics out there (even some of the official stuff), could put THAT much artistic detail like your comic did. Hentai? Really??? LOL, I could understand maybe with April's bodily "proportions" but that's so...minor/insignificant compared to the real Hentai stuff out there. LOL

I agree with ZariusTwo's opinion. The criticisms are so minor. At least they're NOT commenting that it was too depressing, there were plot holes, inconsistency with the art, that it was boring, the characters were WAY off in personality, or any major issues that would have made the comic intolerable to read or much less enjoy.

...So yeah, enjoy and feel proud of your work Tony Day! A majority of us love/enjoy it, so that's gotta mean something especially now with a Russian fan translating your work and opening a whole new world of appreciative fans!

I keep finding myself looking at the very last page and it feels like the song Whitesnake's "Here I Go Again" seems to fit this ending with Raphael's loner personality and now confronting a whole new mission and world...but...all by himself now without his brothers.

[Mona_Lisa]

I Loved it, and I really Loved the ending as well. If you published These books, I would totally buy Them! I thought about taking the Pic. of Raph on the boat and using it as my signature, but didn't know if you would be ok with that?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

If you don't want to write a sequel, why not hand over that to someone other? Someone you really trust (so it doesn't end up as pornography or something other you dislike, OK it's more mature, but I don't think you want it end up as pure pornography).

[Tony Day]

Hi all. I don't mind at all about criticisms really. As long as they're constructive and not mean. I did think the Hentai one was a bit strong though lol.

Mona_Lisa... use what you want. I did this as a fan and for the community for free. As long as no one else makes money peddling it as their own work I’m fine

Swedenfan 1982: This story has now come to it's fitting conclusion. Raph is no longer as the title suggests a turncoat so anything going on from here will be a separate story anyway rather than a sequel. Plus. I have no plans for one in the future. Anyone can do a sequel for this if they want, I'll have no objections. But creating a comic on your own is one hell of a commitment.

Creating Turncoat was like having a full time job. Anything from 9-11 hours per page. It wasn’t really that hard but when I did plan to do a page all other considerations were put on the back burner so to speak. The day was, get up. Eat, do some paper work, draw, ink, get dinner, shower, photoshop, colour, post and then bed.
That's why the thing took years. In-between working or looking for work and the other responsibilities of adult life.
I'd love to do it as a job but it’s not the kind of thing they advertise here in the UK.
I already mentioned to someone else, if I do come back to do another fan project the style won’t be based on the 1980s cartoon (Full colour, 5 levels of shading etc). It would be a black and white affair with minimalist backgrounds. And this time round I would find a writer.
This would reduce workload for me to about 2-4 hours per page depending on the scene. But. I don’t intend to do this for a while. Got some other projects that need doing first. I also need to learn some new software and improve my life drawing techniques.
Laterz all
Tony

www.trydowave.com

[oldmanwinters]

Tony, I think much of the internet criticism that exists of Turtle Turncoat probably originates on account of the first issue, where the dialogue and grammar were more crude. And, of course, Shredder's "interrogation" of April might be the reason for some of that hentai critique. I'm glad you ended up avoiding that type of stuff in your later issues. You really paid a lot more attention to April's inner monologue in subsequent issues, which I appreciated.

I don't think Turncoat needs a sequel. I think it's a great stand-alone "Elseworlds" style story. Most of those type of stories don't need sequels either. I'm all for you doing more TMNT comics, but I think the resolution to Turncoat is very much satisfactory. The only thing I might recommend down the line is a "Special Edition" update of Part 1 ala George Lucas (haha) where you might try to adjust the dialogue and artwork (mostly the colors) to better mesh with the style of issues 2-4.

[Refractive Reflections]

Hi Tony Day,

With Turtle Turncoat completed now, I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions about the process and planning of it since the answers won't give away the ending anymore. I'm just curious about how things developed for you from one fanwork creator to another. Sorry if this is more of an interview than casual questioning, but I'm always intrigued with the process behind great work.

1) I guess what made you to decide to initiate a TMNT fan comic? Were you torn with starting something that you know you would have to finish or did you just start it without questioning it?

2) What made you to choose having the premise of the comic having Raphael "turncoat" or betray/turn away from Splinter and the Turtles? Was it because of his hot-headed personality? Was he your favorite Turtle? Did you want to substantially develop Raphael's character? With this being a Raph-centric comic, did you play around with having maybe a Leo/Don/Mike -centric comic?

3) As you were progressing in the comic, it seems evident that your tone changed somewhat (for example, the language in the 1st comic compared to subsequent comics). During these 12 years and reflecting back on it, do you find yourself more cynical in the tone with some panels and more optimistic with others? (With me, I sometimes find my fanfiction writing sometimes leans from one mood to another sometimes, so I was curious if you find your comic that way too.)

4) Were you certain of how exactly you wanted the comic to end, or did you debate about how happy/sad/profound/simple...etc. you wanted the comic to be? Did you even toy with the idea of something more tragic happening to either of Turtles, Splinter, or April? Did you consider having a more complete or closed ending rather than the more open-ended one?

5) Why did you want to make the OT darker? To give more substance/seriousness? Or was it the universe that most (devoted and causal fans) were familiar too? (I know you mentioned that Alan Peters was leading down a darker script, but the 1st comic seems to already establish that it will darker.)

6) As you progressed with Turtle Turncoat, did the excitement of creating a TMNT fanwork transition into drudgery?

Originally Posted by Tony Day

Creating Turncoat was like having a full time job. Anything from 9-11 hours per page. It wasn’t really that hard but when I did plan to do a page all other considerations were put on the back burner so to speak. The day was, get up. Eat, do some paper work, draw, ink, get dinner, shower, photoshop, colour, post and then bed.
That's why the thing took years. In-between working or looking for work and the other responsibilities of adult life.

...Or did you really enjoy ALL the way through?


Thanks for answering my interview of questions , I think it will not only help me but others who are creating their own fanworks and going through the process. As always, great work Tony Day!

[Tony Day]

Originally Posted by JLS

Hi Tony Day,

With Turtle Turncoat completed now, I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions about the process and planning of it since the answers won't give away the ending anymore. I'm just curious about how things developed for you from one fanwork creator to another. Sorry if this is more of an interview than casual questioning, but I'm always intrigued with the process behind great work.

Hi JLS. Love to answer some questions. Ok here goes...

Originally Posted by JLS

1) I guess what made you to decide to initiate a TMNT fan comic? Were you torn with starting something that you know you would have to finish or did you just start it without questioning it?

I had drawn numerous comics before Turncoat, all my own stories and characters. Hundreds and hundreds of pages b&w to fully painted. But I just locked them away and no one ever saw them, ever. My family and friends showed little interest.
So I decided to do a fan comic. One of my favourite series. This way I could still draw something I was interested in and at least have a small group of people who actually read it (and knew it even existed).
It was a toss up between Turtles and Transformers. My first comic with Alan Peters was a transformers rip off so by that time I was kinda bored of drawing robots so I choose the turtles instead.

Originally Posted by JLS

2) What made you to choose having the premise of the comic having Raphael "turncoat" or betray/turn away from Splinter and the Turtles? Was it because of his hot-headed personality? Was he your favorite Turtle? Did you want to substantially develop Raphael's character? With this being a Raph-centric comic, did you play around with having maybe a Leo/Don/Mike -centric comic?

Raph had the best personality for a dramatic action packed story. Lots of emotions could be delved into through his character vs say, Donatello. I think it’s possible to make good stories from each Turtle but they would be very different to what I was trying to accomplish. I was kinda inspired by the 1st movie where Raph had lots of hissy fits.

Originally Posted by JLS

3) As you were progressing in the comic, it seems evident that your tone changed somewhat (for example, the language in the 1st comic compared to subsequent comics). During these 12 years and reflecting back on it, do you find yourself more cynical in the tone with some panels and more optimistic with others? (With me, I sometimes find my fanfiction writing sometimes leans from one mood to another sometimes, so I was curious if you find your comic that way too.)

I drew the first part when I was about 24-25. I was a completely different person then. Back then drawing a comic that was darker in tone meant having everyone swear every two seconds (probably making up for the lack of words in my vocabulary). Also, drawing semi naked females used to be more fun too. Typical young male mentality. Must be getting old I guess lol. I never did script back then either. I would have the overall story in my head, draw the thing and cram the dialogue in at the last minute. This is why I got Alan in for parts 2 and 3.

Originally Posted by JLS

4) Were you certain of how exactly you wanted the comic to end, or did you debate about how happy/sad/profound/simple...etc. you wanted the comic to be? Did you even toy with the idea of something more tragic happening to either of Turtles, Splinter, or April? Did you consider having a more complete or closed ending rather than the more open-ended one?

The overall story was in my head right from the beginning starting in 2001 and it didn’t change once. Things just got added to it

Originally Posted by JLS

5) Why did you want to make the OT darker? To give more substance/seriousness? Or was it the universe that most (devoted and causal fans) were familiar too? (I know you mentioned that Alan Peters was leading down a darker script, but the 1st comic seems to already establish that it will darker.)

I think people get darker or more pessimistic as they get older and it kept the older, adult side of me interested. Shredder had to be much more evil in my comic not like the one in later seasons of the original toon; Shredder slipping on banana peels etc. He had to be a badass!
Season 1 is darker in tone than season 2 in a way. Later incarnations are more darker and they're still made for kids, but i digress...
Alan loves a level of seriousness and he hates things like Mike's catchphrases and the knucklehead. I still don't think Turncoat is deadly dark though. I've read worse.

Originally Posted by JLS

6)As you progressed with Turtle Turncoat, did the excitement of creating a TMNT fanwork transition into drudgery? Or did you really enjoy ALL the way through?

For me personally it’s like work. Very rarely did I get massively into it. I mainly put this down to the stresses of real life though rather than losing interest in the project. Looking at Turncoat you can tell what pages I was onboard with and really into it. They're my best pages.

Originally Posted by JLS

Thanks for answering my interview of questions , I think it will not only help me but others who are creating their own fanworks and going through the process. As always, great work Tony Day!

No problem and thanx for that JLS. You made me feel appreciated there for a moment I hope I could have been some help to you and I hope your own fan project goes smoothly.
One bit of advice to anyone creating fanwork and it touches on your last question. About 70% is drudgery and hard work. It takes over tons of your free time. But and it’s a big but, It can be one of the most rewarding things in life. For me, creating something is preferable to plonking my arse down in front of my Xbox and playing games for hours.
Getting praise for it after is just icing on the cake .

[arizvega]

Nice website

[cartoonistaaron]

Originally Posted by Tony Day

...creating a comic on your own is one hell of a commitment.

Creating Turncoat was like having a full time job. Anything from 9-11 hours per page. It wasn’t really that hard but when I did plan to do a page all other considerations were put on the back burner so to speak. The day was, get up. Eat, do some paper work, draw, ink, get dinner, shower, photoshop, colour, post and then bed.
That's why the thing took years. In-between working or looking for work and the other responsibilities of adult life.
I'd love to do it as a job but it’s not the kind of thing they advertise here in the UK.
I already mentioned to someone else, if I do come back to do another fan project the style won’t be based on the 1980s cartoon (Full colour, 5 levels of shading etc). It would be a black and white affair with minimalist backgrounds. And this time round I would find a writer.
This would reduce workload for me to about 2-4 hours per page depending on the scene.

I'm finding this is true with my self published book. I don't think people realize how much work goes into it, especially doing every aspect of the comic book yourself. It really is a full time job on top of your real full time job. But you made it look super slick! Again, great job!

[Master Splinter]

So awesome seeing this finally completed. Amazing work over the years working on this series. Great work Tony!

-ms

[ZariusTwo]

Just listed this story as a recommendation on Tvtropes. As I've said before, It honestly needs a page all it's own there

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Just listed this story as a recommendation on Tvtropes. As I've said before, It honestly needs a page all it's own there

I found the recommendation page for it: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ntNinjaTurtles (It took a bit of searching to find it, at least for me.)

I agree with ZariusTwo, Turtle Turncoat should have it's own page (just like MNT Gaiden does: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...aTurtlesGaiden ).