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Old 12-06-2005, 02:23 AM   #101
iris
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In a way, the somewhat naive thirst for "honor" that Leo and Karai share, or shared at some point, started them on the path to mutual injury. It led to another go-round in the cycle of hate. Ironic?

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Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura
But Karai's just been disowned, and she's just saved the lives of her only friends... they would have been all she had left, if they hadn't thought she betrayed them. And she didn't in the end, so a person's natural sense of justice says "I just helped them, they should help me." Of course, then logic kicks in, "Oh. But they hate me, They think I tried to kill them/one of them." So, as that realization hits her, she'd get bitter at how unfair it all turned out. And then as time distanced her from the ordeal, she'd turn that bitterness on to something that she can do something about (the Turtles, and killing them to "solve the problem"), instead of just living with at as something she couldn't change.
I half agree with that. If Karai were so inclined, she could resolve her differences with the turtles simply by telling them what happened. But she's not so inclined. Instead, she protects their hatred of her because it enables her to transform her world back into black and white. Family and enemy. The wronged and the condemned. Love and hate. The grey areas made her feel conflicted and guilty. I think that she somehow thinks she failed Daddy before (even if she doesn't regret helping the turtles for honor's sake), but she intends not to fail in him in vengeance. Hatred from the turtles makes it easier to honor her father and removes the risk that they will try to appeal to her "weakness" again.
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:02 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura
Um... can all this be considered marginally on-topic? It's just that Leo's problem and Karai's problem are so similar... both trying to solve a problem they can't change, because they can't stand to have a dilemma they weren't able to fix (Karai, unable to have her family and her honor simultaneously, and Leo, unable to ensure that nothing would ever touch his family). They both need to learn that they are not all-powerful, and cannot prevent every negative possibility from happening, and cannot change what's already happened, no matter how much training they do, or how much determination they have.
Boy I hope so...this discussion on Karai is insightful and darned interesting. You, Fledermaus, and a couple others have provided such intelligent responses to this ongoing topic. I really really hope the mods don't lock it or maybe split this part off into a "splinter" thread . *hint hint*

[Mod Edit by MB: Nah, Discuss to Your hearts' content. Its All connected..]

I would post an essay on Karai and stuff but right now I don't have the time. All I gotta say is I love that girl. And this...

"What have I...What have...they done?!"
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:45 PM   #103
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Okay I just saw this ep today cause I had it on my DVR and I thought it was a pretty good Ep even tho a Little too Leo scentric as it has lately been , I liked the idea on Usagi and Gen visiting and Usagi did have good advice for Leo..

I thought the hole rocksteady and Bebop situation hilarious and really unexpected I really liked the idea..

One kind of twilight zone moment was when Mike lost his comics cause somehow (true story) someone stole mine from my mail last week which now I have a heated battle with the USpostal service.......


The next Eps looks pretty interesting I really hope Leo can come back to his senses even tho somethimes is hard to overcome bad situations
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:48 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
"What have I...What have...they done?!"
Do you really think Karai is like Demona? I could picture Karai saying that line, but I just think their motivations are very different. Maybe I shouldn't open that can of worms.

I wonder how the turtles would react if they were to learn that Karai helped them. I'd think that'd mess with their heads a little.
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:35 AM   #105
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i thought it was a pretty good episode. i liked the Rocksteady refrences aswell, and the slight Bebop refrence. for a second i thought that maybe he's have a mohawk aswell or somethin.


I think someone asked for pics of "Gensteady"? hope this ok if i post a few.



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Old 12-07-2005, 11:12 AM   #106
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Totally Awesome... this episode was for sure the best in the series.
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Old 12-07-2005, 11:38 AM   #107
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Absolutely one of my favorite episodes of the series. And once again, hats off to another 80's TMNT cartoon refference. I excluded the warthog warrior as a refference to the old show, but I was waiting to hear Mikey say something like:

"A rhino AND a warthog? Is this some sort of bad cartoon from the 80's or something?"

Would have been too obvious though.

But I'm surprise no one got (or reported getting) the 1970's SNL refference of "samurai tourist" which sounds like it could have been a John Belushi skit.

Anyway, I planned on taping this and watching it over and over again, but my TV reception was absolutely crappy. That's right. I said "Taped" and "reception." I do not have cable or Tivo.

I cannot wait for this episode on DVD.

But about the Farting Master... I dunno... he seems a bit too "Master Roshi" for my taste. I've seen the wacky old master quite a bit over the years, and I don't think Farting will give the character too much of an edge. As for farting? I only laugh at it when it's done well, and in a clever way. I read a Naruto last week, where some dude has a sense of smell thousands of times greater than anyone else, and Naruto unintentionally farts in his face. Now that's comedy.

Sigh... I remember the days when even the word "fart" was a taboo on TV. Now, like Boogers and the word "butt" it's been done so many times the novelty and shock value is gone.
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Old 12-07-2005, 12:03 PM   #108
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I really hope that thenext weeks Ep doesnt get ruined by the Farting Master
I mean If they want something funny to compliment an Ep is definetly not that...
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:19 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zkarlette
I really hope that thenext weeks Ep doesnt get ruined by the Farting Master
I mean If they want something funny to compliment an Ep is definetly not that...
Ah, but someone needs to teach Leo to release his burdens to the wind... Teach him to stop being so concerned about being humiliated by releasing such burdens...
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:38 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drtooth
Anyway, I planned on taping this and watching it over and over again, but my TV reception was absolutely crappy. That's right. I said "Taped" and "reception." I do not have cable or Tivo.
Greetings, caveman bruthah! I too inhabit the disinherited Tivo-less land of bunny ears and VHS! Ooga booga!

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Originally Posted by Drtooth
I've seen the wacky old master quite a bit over the years, and I don't think Farting will give the character too much of an edge. As for farting? I only laugh at it when it's done well, and in a clever way.
I don't expect the flatulence to be funny, and I sincerely hope they're not going for "shock value" comedy with it. Leo's reaction might be interesting, though.
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:41 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
Ah, but someone needs to teach Leo to release his burdens to the wind... Teach him to stop being so concerned about being humiliated by releasing such burdens...
Hilarious Maybe just maybe you could be right
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:22 PM   #112
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Aw man... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but after next week's new episode (called "The Ancient One"), they are repeating Cousin Sid on the 17th. The season is already more than half over! I hope they'll have at least one multipart story.

Which brings up another point. How long is Leo going to be in Japan? One episode? Several? If it spans several episodes will it cut back to the US occasionally? I mean Leo may be a strong character but he can't support the show by himself. If Leo does leave for a while it could give a bit of time for some charcters which need some development. Don comes to mind. Leatherhead too. Where the heck did that guy go anyway? I want LH back!
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:28 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by userpjx
Aw man... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but after next week's new episode (called "The Ancient One"), they are repeating Cousin Sid on the 17th. The season is already more than half over! I hope they'll have at least one multipart story.

Which brings up another point. How long is Leo going to be in Japan? One episode? Several? If it spans several episodes will it cut back to the US occasionally? I mean Leo may be a strong character but he can't support the show by himself. If Leo does leave for a while it could give a bit of time for some charcters which need some development. Don comes to mind. Leatherhead too. Where the heck did that guy go anyway? I want LH back!
hey you have a few good points there! Well it would make sense for Leo to stay a while...
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:38 PM   #114
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I hope its only a one Ep thing or maybe two cause this hole Leo thing is getting kind of dull
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:53 PM   #115
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I wouldn't be too quick to write of a period of Leo away in Japan as "a bad idea." Think about it: there could be a whole string of episodes that just focus on the three others. With Leo gone, there could be a lot more focus given to the developing and finding out the inner dynamics of the others. Throughout most of the series, Leo has overshadowed the other characters, both in the story, and outside. He gets the spotlight most of the time, inside and out. We notice it. His brothers likely notice it--and I'm sure it gets on their nerves. Until recently, they may have been content with letting Leo get most of the attention from father rat....

I personally believe that a radical change in the family dynamics such as this could usher in much awesomeness. So quit your fearin until we actually see the dang episode. Like Splinter said... "Change is a good thing." (well, it CAN be a good thing.) My point is, if the writers go to the trouble of setting up the situation for mondo delving into the characters of Raph, Don, and Mikey... they'd have to be pretty damn thick not to take advantage of what they've set up. And I think there is much reason to have faith in the possibility that the writers know what they're doing. I believe they know what they're doing. Even if it looks like they've made a mistake, it will probably turn out to be a stroke of genius--and we'll find out why maybe half a season or so later.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:19 AM   #116
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Perhaps they'll at least spend an episode each exploring Mikey, Don and Raph while Leo is away... hopefully one for Splinter as well. That speech Mikey gave during the Samurai Tourist practically sets the show up for some exploration of their characters at this point (as said beforehand).
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:14 AM   #117
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My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:11 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Ninja
My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.
I was thinking about that too. I hope to God it's Don. He's been hardly explored in this series.

It's funny to look at each TMNT series and see which charcters got much more development than others. Like how in Archie Don and Raph overshadowed the others BIGTIME and how in this series Leo is "overexposed".
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:00 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
Throughout most of the series, Leo has overshadowed the other characters, both in the story, and outside. He gets the spotlight most of the time, inside and out. We notice it. His brothers likely notice it--and I'm sure it gets on their nerves. Until recently, they may have been content with letting Leo get most of the attention from father rat....
I can believe that the other guys may may sometimes envy Leo's position and his relationship with Splinter, but at the same time I think they know that's not what they want. Leo's path is not for them. And while we don't get to see Splinter interact much with the others, that doesn't mean he doesn't give them attention. Not to say everything's perfect and peachy all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
I personally believe that a radical change in the family dynamics such as this could usher in much awesomeness.
I like much awesomeness! There'll be time for it... I hope they show it.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked to me like Leo was on a boat in the preview... which makes sense since he can't exactly hop a plane. And there's no turtle blimp! What's up with that?! But the point is, boats are friggin' slow. If he's really travelling by ship all the way to Japan, the transit itself could take weeks, and then if he's gonna go climb a tree... of enlightenment... the dude's not gonna be back in NYC for months. But I dunno, maybe he's travelling by transdimensional vortex and he'll be back next Tuesday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Ninja
My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.
For some reason, I'm flashing back to Don and Raph's little smackfest gangup on Mikey in "Still Nobody". In a previous ep, Don had commented that Mike "asked" to be smacked by tormenting Raph, which was true, but also forshadowed Don's decision to smack Mikey himself in "Still Nobody". This seems so trivial that I almost feel like I'm gossiping, but it has clearly become more than just a running joke. I wonder if it means anything?

Since Donny is majorly introverted, it's possible that significant changes in his character will only come out in very subtle ways. Up until recently I didn't think that this show would try to carry anything that refined across episodes... but maybe I was wrong.

If it comes to it, I think that Raph's more inclined to leadership than Don, but it would be interesting to have Don in that role, under some pressure. What'll happen if they test Don's mettle?
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Last edited by iris; 12-08-2005 at 03:40 PM. Reason: iris typles badly
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Old 12-08-2005, 04:24 PM   #120
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Im thinking it'll just be for one ep because in Teen Titans when Robin went off to Japan to train with a wise sage he came back in one ep. While he was gone the other titans realized they needed a leader so they all dressed as Robin to see which one of them could lead the best.

Robin came back seeing them eating pizza around the table and dressed up as him...even their pet!
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