New Star Wars Cartoon: Star Wars: Clone Wars - Page 6

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew138

What is "dark" about the Empire Strikes Back? Just because they are in space the whole time???

Double post or not, I will answer this one. First of all, The slaughtering of the Rebels in Hoth, Whole thing between Luke and Vader, Han Solo put to Ice for many years... It can't be that hard to see can it? Compare it to Ewoks throwing rocks at Storm Troopers, and you will know why Jedi isn't so dark. Of course Jedi has those elements in it to, but it' bsaicly limits to the end of movie when Palpatine tries to Turn Luke to Dark side.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 11:44 AM

Yeah, compare Ewoks to Luke to trying to kill his own father and that whole dark side thing.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 11:46 AM

Im not sure what you are after, but yes, It makes it dark that Luke is forced to fight his own father. Altough like Yoda says, Luke is nowhere near ready to face Vader in the end of Empire.

Ghidorah2000 · 06-25-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew138

What is "dark" about the Empire Strikes Back? Just because they are in space the whole time???

Well, the fact that there were no, "Yippeeee!!!!" moments in it makes it pretty dark. You can't tell me Ep. 2 was totally dark when you had Jar Jar in it and C3PO acting like one of the Three Stooges. Here are a few examples:

1. Han Solo is tortured and encased in Carbonite. That doesn't scream of a "hooray!" moment.

2. Luke finds out the most evil entity in the known galaxy (Darth Vader) is his father. Plus his own father dismembers his hand. Yet another instance that doesn't scream a "hooray!!" moment either.

3. There are no cute little furry comedy reliefs. Or big huge fish headed Generals. Or Chewie doing the Tarzan call while swinging to an Imperial Walker.

4. Decapitation! (Albeit in a hallucinatory way, but still that was not in either ANH, although one guy does get his arm gruesomely sliced off by Obi-Wan, or ROTJ)

5. Darth Vader and his mighty Force Choke with the bad attitude to go along with it.

6. Overall, the movie ended on not a happy note but one of anxiety leaving us with the question of whether or not the Rebels would win against the empire instead of the big "Hooray!" moment at the end of ANH.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Im not sure what you are after, but yes, It makes it dark that Luke is forced to fight his own father. Altough like Yoda says, Luke is nowhere near ready to face Vader in the end of Empire.

I'm talking about the end of Jedi, not about Empire.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 11:49 AM

Question was why empire is dark, and the darkest movie in the series. Gidorah put it the best.

*That Matt Guy* · 06-25-2003, 11:50 AM

Well there was "dark" stuff in the first one. Remember the charred remains of Luke's family?

Burning In H2O · 06-25-2003, 11:50 AM

Ahh yes....the star wars movies are PG, hence why they added that disney touch to some of it. Now i will apologize about calling you self centered, I don't know what has come over me, but still. Your veiws on movies are obscure from other people. I believe that a quote by George Lucas about all Star Wars movies is "I make these movies so childern can watch them, and not become corrupted." Again, the reason for the Disney touch. There are also many good movie that aren't dark. Infact I bet you that if i took a poll from my whole neighborhood, that most movies that are said are not "dark" movies. I know for a fact that a neighborhood favorite movie (and my favorite movie) is "The Last Castle," and there is nothing "dark" about it. Another favorite of mine and lots of people all over the whole James Bond Series. Not to sound strange, but i love them soo much, I know all of them like that back of my hand. There is no "darkness" in those. There are soo many good movies where there isn't a second of darkness, and by percentage abd educated guess of much research, i would say 78% of people would say a movie dosent have to be dark to be good. And that "dark" movies are no better than regular action. I will leave u at that for now.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 11:52 AM

He has a good point, you know. The James Bond movies are rarely dark. Yet they are one of the most popular movie series ever.

Ghidorah2000 · 06-25-2003, 11:57 AM

But that doesn't mean the ESB is not the Darkest of all the films. There was an awful lot of really deep moments that weren't of the Funny Ha Ha variety. I can't tell you how much seeing those huge Imperial Walkers heading towards the Rebel Base scared me. That is a very foreboding moment because you know the Rebels are ill equipped to combat the brute force of the Empire. I believe the only true comic relief came from C3PO who was genuinely funny in ESB and didn't come across as one of the Three Stooges like he was in Episode Two. I cringe every time I see the "komedy" of C3PO in that movie. It's almost like they gave C3PO the designated Jar Jar type role.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 11:59 AM

I never said movie has to be dark to be good. I am a big fan of James Bond series to, it is very light. I also like many comedies, like Blues Brothers and other classics like that. They are light, and great movies. But I do prefer darker movies like The Terminator over the lighter ones. You are also correct, The ligh heartness is Lucas' doing, and he has every right to do it. The reason why Empire is the darkest movie is, becase Lucas couldn't influence it as much as he would have wanted.

I do think that new episodes are not near the level of orignals, but I do think they are good entertainment. Still they won't become classics like the first trilogy, that Im pretty sure of.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 11:59 AM

Yes, but I don't think ESB is the best becsue it's dark. It has great effects, music, acting, and script and plot. All which are hard to find in just one movie.

*That Matt Guy* · 06-25-2003, 11:59 AM

There was a lot of funny stuff, like the Millenium Falcon constatnly falling apart and breaking down.

Burning In H2O · 06-25-2003, 12:00 PM

I am not getting at how "dark" movies are. i am getting at how good "dark" movies are compared to regular movies. My main point is that people enjoy regulat over "dark"

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 12:01 PM

Yeah. Most people I know don't like movies just because they're dark or whatever. I don't judge a movie on how "dark" it is.

*That Matt Guy* · 06-25-2003, 12:01 PM

I guess so. People don't want to be depressed and shocked all the time.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 12:03 PM

Well, I know that i don't.

Burning In H2O · 06-25-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

I never said movie has to be dark to be good. I am a big fan of James Bond series to, it is very light. I also like many comedies, like Blues Brothers and other classics like that. They are light, and great movies. But I do prefer darker movies like The Terminator over the lighter ones. You are also correct, The ligh heartness is Lucas' doing, and he has every right to do it. The reason why Empire is the darkest movie is, becase Lucas couldn't influence it as much as he would have wanted.

I do think that new episodes are not near the level of orignals, but I do think they are good entertainment. Still they won't become classics like the first trilogy, that Im pretty sure of.

I am happily seeing we are coming to an understanding, and i have no criticizm, beacsue i am also a very big Arnold fan. The only thing that still isn't accomplished is how a person could like a movie that is technically speaking "tone death". I think that even the scariest or most serious movies should have parts of comedy in them, beacsue otherwise you are watching 2 hours of seriousness, and if i want 2 hours of serious i would be liveing my life. I need no help from movies to bore me from endless seriousness.

**Karpo_007** · 06-25-2003, 12:04 PM

I don't know, who can say that Any of the James Bond movies is better than The Terminator? They always follow the same formula. They are ment to be only entertainment, not movies with deep plots. Im pretty sure Terminator and T2 did score just fine in box office. And the movie wouldn't be the same if it wasn't as dark as it is.

And it is true, Empire isn't bes in the series just because it's darkes, It's combnation of everything, acting, plot, writing, and of course special effects. Can someone honestly say that space battles look better in CGI ala New episodes?

*Eye of Sarnath* · 06-25-2003, 12:08 PM

I think the CG works very well in some places. For example, during the fight between Obi-Wan and Jango on Kamino, I thought that the CG was very well done.

Quote:

I don't know, who can say that Any of the James Bond movies is better than The Terminator?

Goldeneye is a really really good movie. But my favorite movie of ALL TIME is T2. And you know why? The part at the end, when the T-800 shoots the T-1000 and says "hasta la vista, baby." Greatest moment ever in a movie, in my book.

06-25-2003, 11:44 AM	#102
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	Yeah, compare Ewoks to Luke to trying to kill his own father and that whole dark side thing. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 11:50 AM	#108
Burning In H2O Random Punk Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: at the bar Posts: 15	Ahh yes....the star wars movies are PG, hence why they added that disney touch to some of it. Now i will apologize about calling you self centered, I don't know what has come over me, but still. Your veiws on movies are obscure from other people. I believe that a quote by George Lucas about all Star Wars movies is "I make these movies so childern can watch them, and not become corrupted." Again, the reason for the Disney touch. There are also many good movie that aren't dark. Infact I bet you that if i took a poll from my whole neighborhood, that most movies that are said are not "dark" movies. I know for a fact that a neighborhood favorite movie (and my favorite movie) is "The Last Castle," and there is nothing "dark" about it. Another favorite of mine and lots of people all over the whole James Bond Series. Not to sound strange, but i love them soo much, I know all of them like that back of my hand. There is no "darkness" in those. There are soo many good movies where there isn't a second of darkness, and by percentage abd educated guess of much research, i would say 78% of people would say a movie dosent have to be dark to be good. And that "dark" movies are no better than regular action. I will leave u at that for now. __________________ If a bus station is where a bus stops, and a train station is where a train stops, why do I have a work station on my desk?

06-25-2003, 11:52 AM	#109
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	He has a good point, you know. The James Bond movies are rarely dark. Yet they are one of the most popular movie series ever. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 11:57 AM	#110
Ghidorah2000 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Monster Island Posts: 189	But that doesn't mean the ESB is not the Darkest of all the films. There was an awful lot of really deep moments that weren't of the Funny Ha Ha variety. I can't tell you how much seeing those huge Imperial Walkers heading towards the Rebel Base scared me. That is a very foreboding moment because you know the Rebels are ill equipped to combat the brute force of the Empire. I believe the only true comic relief came from C3PO who was genuinely funny in ESB and didn't come across as one of the Three Stooges like he was in Episode Two. I cringe every time I see the "komedy" of C3PO in that movie. It's almost like they gave C3PO the designated Jar Jar type role. __________________ Tom Servo: It's just a simple matter of "What the h* is going on?!"**

06-25-2003, 11:59 AM	#112
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	Yes, but I don't think ESB is the best becsue it's dark. It has great effects, music, acting, and script and plot. All which are hard to find in just one movie. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 11:46 AM	#103
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Im not sure what you are after, but yes, It makes it dark that Luke is forced to fight his own father. Altough like Yoda says, Luke is nowhere near ready to face Vader in the end of Empire.

06-25-2003, 11:49 AM	#106
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Question was why empire is dark, and the darkest movie in the series. Gidorah put it the best.

06-25-2003, 11:50 AM	#107
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	Well there was "dark" stuff in the first one. Remember the charred remains of Luke's family?

06-25-2003, 11:59 AM	#111
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I never said movie has to be dark to be good. I am a big fan of James Bond series to, it is very light. I also like many comedies, like Blues Brothers and other classics like that. They are light, and great movies. But I do prefer darker movies like The Terminator over the lighter ones. You are also correct, The ligh heartness is Lucas' doing, and he has every right to do it. The reason why Empire is the darkest movie is, becase Lucas couldn't influence it as much as he would have wanted. I do think that new episodes are not near the level of orignals, but I do think they are good entertainment. Still they won't become classics like the first trilogy, that Im pretty sure of.

06-25-2003, 11:59 AM	#113
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	There was a lot of funny stuff, like the Millenium Falcon constatnly falling apart and breaking down.

06-25-2003, 12:00 PM	#114
Burning In H2O Random Punk Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: at the bar Posts: 15	I am not getting at how "dark" movies are. i am getting at how good "dark" movies are compared to regular movies. My main point is that people enjoy regulat over "dark" __________________ If a bus station is where a bus stops, and a train station is where a train stops, why do I have a work station on my desk?

06-25-2003, 12:01 PM	#115
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	Yeah. Most people I know don't like movies just because they're dark or whatever. I don't judge a movie on how "dark" it is. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 12:01 PM	#116
That Matt Guy Honey Bunches Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 5,840	I guess so. People don't want to be depressed and shocked all the time.

06-25-2003, 12:03 PM	#117
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	Well, I know that i don't. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

06-25-2003, 12:04 PM	#119
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I don't know, who can say that Any of the James Bond movies is better than The Terminator? They always follow the same formula. They are ment to be only entertainment, not movies with deep plots. Im pretty sure Terminator and T2 did score just fine in box office. And the movie wouldn't be the same if it wasn't as dark as it is. And it is true, Empire isn't bes in the series just because it's darkes, It's combnation of everything, acting, plot, writing, and of course special effects. Can someone honestly say that space battles look better in CGI ala New episodes?