Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep20: "Tale of the Yokai"

[Toadtrooper]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

You do realize that if he even did that he'd be tampering with history even further, right?

I was just about to hit on that.

That the Turtles wouldn't sacrifice themselves for their master's happiness seemed... overly selfish. They should have defeated Shredder before Shredder even happened.

Not to mention that since we're making stupid time rules, Renet could leave this timeline where Splinter lives happily ever after with Tang Shen, but return the Turtles to an alternate where none of this actually happened. Because, stupid time rules.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why are you so angry? Its a classic time travel paradox. You seem hotly bothered.

Except it's not, as I quoted before. Time travel involves a causal loop where a paradox does not. This was time travel. It wasn't a paradox. They're not the same thing, and to pretend they are and make the rules subjective to your plot needs is just poor writing.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

I was just about to hit on that.

That the Turtles wouldn't sacrifice themselves for their master's happiness seemed... overly selfish. They should have defeated Shredder before Shredder even happened.

Not to mention that since we're making stupid time rules, Renet could leave this timeline where Splinter lives happily ever after with Tang Shen, but return the Turtles to an alternate where none of this actually happened. Because, stupid time rules.

Yeah.....I can't say I like that idea at all.

Time Travel in this episode was pretty much similar to what was shown in Back to the Future. Had the events you described actually happened, the Turtles would eventually fade away from existence, because the future and reality they're from wouldn't even exist anymore. Plus I'm pretty sure Renet isn't skilled enough at all to actually accomplish what you described, even with the scepter.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

I was just about to hit on that.

That the Turtles wouldn't sacrifice themselves for their master's happiness seemed... overly selfish. They should have defeated Shredder before Shredder even happened.

Then who would save the world from the Kraang. They needed to keep the present the same because they save the world from the Kraang.

[drgon78]

Good episode and great back to the future reference.

[Toadtrooper]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Time travel, since it's not proven to be a real thing in the way depicted in fiction, does not have a concise set of rules.

Time travel is impossible to prove, because of displacement. Going even an hour into the future could displace you somewhere between a thousand and a million miles from your point of origin.

It's possible somebody already tried time travel and is now floating dead out in space. That's why I always roll my eyes at time travel stories, especially ones that make it sound like a scientific relationship between static objects.

But everything's moving.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

That's why I always roll my eyes at time travel stories, especially ones that make it sound like a scientific relationship between static objects.

But everything's moving.

Why did it take you 6 posts before you finally got around to saying "I don't like time travel arcs. They're stupid to me."

We wouldn't have wasted our times trying to explain something you don't even care about.

Just because you're not a fan of a plot device doesn't mean you should state that a network should scrap an episode premise based on something you could care less about.

[TigerClaw]

I'm surprise that they didn't show a preview for the next episode, after it ended it showed another cartoon right away.

I hate when they do that, the episodes ends and they don't bother showing the credits, They just go to the next cartoon after.

[VaughnMichael]

I have to wonder if anything in present day got changed because of the turtles besides what was always meant to be.

[Unworthy tinker]

Loved this episode. Leo holding baby Miwa was just d'aww. The whole scene where they pretended to be Kappa was awesome and hilarious. Then...I didn't cry, but the feels. Farewell Tang Shen.

Would've been nice to see Saki become Shredder, but they do have to fit it into twenty two minutes, so I guess they get a pass.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

I bet you didn't watch Gargoyles did you, they had a couple of episodes that focused on Time Travel. 1 character was shown falling to his death but was saved by his future self but that character had to do the same thing so it goes in a loop. Also there was another episode similar to that. You need to watch them the episodes are Avalon part 1 to 3 and M.I.A. There was also the episode Vows.

And there was going to be a spin off story line called Time Dancer where Brooklyn is sent tumbling 40 years through time and space. So we see some of the of the things that happened in the show were caused by him because they had to happen. And all this is set up by Goliath throwing the Phoenix Gate into to the Time Stream.

[Toadtrooper]

Originally Posted by JTH

Just because you're not a fan of a plot device doesn't mean you should state that a network should scrap an episode premise based on something you could care less about.

Except, like I said, I like the Misfits one. It was presented as a one-time power, not a science.

I'll spoil it for everyone.

Couple. Female character dies in male character's arms. Male character buys a power that can send him back in time - once - before they were a couple. Male character only reveals himself to his male counterpart when he's killed. Then his counterpart continue the relationship up until the female character dies in his arms again and he's forced to repeat the entire thing for eternity.

Because he's never told how to end it.

That's a causal loop inside a time travel.

The show did the bootstrap paradox for the series finale, where a character receives a text message from her future self telling her not to sleep with the bad guy.

I hated that so much. The paradox is lazy and a sign of a careless writer who would rather do random stuff than actually make sense.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

Not to mention that since we're making stupid time rules, Renet could leave this timeline where Splinter lives happily ever after with Tang Shen, but return the Turtles to an alternate where none of this actually happened. Because, stupid time rules.

But with other alternate versions there could already be one where they live happily ever after...and then NYC and the world are taken over and destroyed by the Kraang because the Turtles aren't there (and why it wasn't selfish of them, becasue they probably know Splinter would not want them to sacrifice themselves and the world in exchange for his happiness, even if it would be hard to say no). An alternate version does not belong to them and shouldn't be messed with by them.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

(Ok, bunch of posts submitted since started writing this, but whatever, not wasting all that thought so just hitting submit... )

Not worth arguing about... it already was, and generally is, the background history and was going to remain the history. People make split second decisions, sometimes they aren't for the best. Clearly the action that seemed most urgent to her in that moment was trying to help her husband. Urgent enough that other help would never be there soon enough. Yes, she left her child alone, but she didn't have any reason to believe anyone would run off the baby, who she left at a safe distance because there was no other choice. Even if Saki was fighting with Yoshi, given her recent interactions with Saki, she had no reason to think that he'd take her child. (Besides, if the kindly Yokai were around maybe she thought her child would be guarded.)

Of course... weirdly, if Saki was under the impression that Yoshi also died...it's not necessarily ill intentioned to take the child with him if she was laying there alone and orphaned. It would be more cruel to leave her there. Though he should have sought out the child's other blood relatives instead since he knew the truth. Selfishly held on to that connection to Tang Shen, but probably(?) not intended badly or meant to be held against anyone...until he found out he could years later.

It's history and was going to remain history no matter if her choices were wise or not. No "feminist rants" or accusations of it necessary. And honestly not sure if too many guys should argue what a well written female character is or isn't.

He took Karai because she could be raised as an heir to the Foot Clan. So in a way she was several things to him, the last piece of the woman he loved, a puppet her can mold into a weapon, a trophy, and a means to prolong the survival of the Foot Clan.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

I was just about to hit on that.

That the Turtles wouldn't sacrifice themselves for their master's happiness seemed... overly selfish. They should have defeated Shredder before Shredder even happened.

But if the Turtles sacrifice their very existence so that Splinter may live. They are dooming the world to the Kraang, because they wouldn't be in the future to stop the invasion from taking place. Thus leaving people like April, Casey, and everyone else they know and love to suffer and die at the tentacles of Kraang Prime.

Even if Yoshi did get Miwa and get four turtles. He says he sensed something was off when that one Kraang Droid bumped into him. He wouldn't have followed him if Miwa was around.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

He took Karai because she could be raised as an heir to the Foot Clan. So in a way she was several things to him, the last piece of the woman he loved, a puppet her can mold into a weapon, a trophy, and a means to prolong the survival of the Foot Clan.

Do you think it was also because he seen little of himself in Karai and felt some empathy for her since he had been in her position? Orphan of rival clan or maybe part of it was his idea of karmic payback from being lied and reared by his true sworn enemies of his real clan.

[THGhost]

Removed my post, huh? Geez, I was only asking where I could watch this episode. Not all of us live in the US y'know.

Anyway, I finally found this episode in HD and here are my thoughts:

• No, not the beard!
• Man, Oroku Saki looks a lot less intimidating without his armour.
• So it's not Splinter's father, it's Hamato Yoshi himself. I knew it.
• Still mispronouncing Renet's name, huh?
• Mini Karai ^_^
• Cannot. Resist. Mikey's cute eyes!
• Wouldn't it be a good idea for all of the Turtles to have smoke bombs, not just Mikey?
• Casey disappearing from the photograph. Why are things so heavy in the future? Or past, in this case.
• Karai tugging on Leo's bandanna tugged at my heart strings.
• If someone threw cucumbers at me, I'd run away too.
• Don't tell her that, Raph. She'll obviously choose Saki over Yoshi.
• "Through your butt"? Really?
• What? No blood? Oh, yeah. Nickelodeon.
• Donnie literally vanished into the shadows. Very jarring CGI error.
• Lets hope Splinter is actually at home waiting for them and hasn't been kidnapped while they were gone.

Originally Posted by Powder

The scene where the embraced the turtles whole kappa/yokai thing & terrorized Shredder's ninjas may be my all time favorite moment in this show's history. It was just ridiculously badass & hilarious, a perfect combination. Their maniacal laughter, the flames, their heavily shadowed forms with white eyes, sooooooooooo cool...

Agreed, that was pretty awesome.


Quite possibly my favourite image from this episode:



I love when they get all serious.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Removed my post, huh? Geez, I was only asking where I could watch this episode. Not all of us live in the US y'know.

It can get the forums in trouble! Holy Hell, like, does no one care about things like that?

Anyway, this episode was pretty good. I liked it a lot, especially when the turtles go all ninja ninja. Those are my favorite moments.

[CyberCubed]

Loved the Yokai scenes. Amazing.

[TurtleTitan97]

We totally need some gifs of that Yokai scene ASAP.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Cure

It can get the forums in trouble! Holy Hell, like, does no one care about things like that?

The forums really need to rethink some of its rules. That's never stopped people from PM'ing me links in the past. I'll just wait longer in future for HD links.