"It sells less and less every month"

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MattOnWheels

Cars also can't turn into robots and then turn into CGI animals, either.

There's gotta be a line somewhere.

I say that when the story suggests the necessity, or even the possibility of a Honda Civic giving it up the tailpipe to a Chevy Nova, with both of them also sentient enough to articulate their feelings on the matter, and that this happens on the regular, you have officially crossed that line.

That's not even "Transformers" anymore, that's bad "Cars" fanfiction. Nobody wants that, c'mon. I mean if the Autobots were real and they saw what was going on in their own comic book they'd be horrified, probably.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

They can with Cudley.

Yeah, but he isn't really around much and I don't remember the Turtles even having a way to get a hold of him. And in the 100 some issues of TMNTA including spinoff stuff he appeared... maybe 4 times? 5?

[Leo656]

Well, I mean Cudley's got a lot goin' on, man. He's got HUGE responsibilities.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yeah, but he isn't really around much and I don't remember the Turtles even having a way to get a hold of him. And in the 100 some issues of TMNTA including spinoff stuff he appeared... maybe 4 times? 5?

As coincidence would have it, Cudley used to be at Cherubae's beck and call. Not saying he'll be used to bring in the Archie Turtles but there's a good chance we might see the guy in this as it's going full nostalgia fuel.

[MattOnWheels]

Originally Posted by Leo656

There's gotta be a line somewhere.

I say that when the story suggests the necessity, or even the possibility of a Honda Civic giving it up the tailpipe to a Chevy Nova, with both of them also sentient enough to articulate their feelings on the matter, and that this happens on the regular, you have officially crossed that line.

That's not even "Transformers" anymore, that's bad "Cars" fanfiction. Nobody wants that, c'mon. I mean if the Autobots were real and they saw what was going on in their own comic book they'd be horrified, probably.

So essentially "Robots can't love"? But...that's not true either. There's no law that says any of those things cannot happen. What I think you're saying is that you don't WANT it to happen, which is an entirely subjective thing. If Optimus prime were to come out as gay tomorrow, why would I mind? It's his life, he can do what he wants.

It's very easy not to let this bother you, if you choose to do so.

I think you'll find that plenty of people are greatful for it actually. Myself included.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by MattOnWheels

So essentially "Robots can't love"? But...that's not true either. There's no law that says any of those things cannot happen. What I think you're saying is that you don't WANT it to happen, which is an entirely subjective thing. If Optimus prime were to come out as gay tomorrow, why would I mind? It's his life, he can do what he wants.

It's very easy not to let this bother you, if you choose to do so.

I think you'll find that plenty of people are greatful for it actually. Myself included.

Roboporn? Furries porn ain't enough for you now you want robots bumping uglies? Get help. D@mn. Robots don't have emotions. And there is more to life than fvcking.

[CyberCubed]

Sci-fi has had plenty of robot/android characters in romance stories. Literally Star Trek has Data having sex with a woman in the third episode.

[neatoman]

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MattOnWheels

So essentially "Robots can't love"? But...that's not true either. There's no law that says any of those things cannot happen. What I think you're saying is that you don't WANT it to happen, which is an entirely subjective thing. If Optimus prime were to come out as gay tomorrow, why would I mind? It's his life, he can do what he wants.

It's very easy not to let this bother you, if you choose to do so.

I think you'll find that plenty of people are greatful for it actually. Myself included.

Yeah, yeah... "It's all fake, so they can do Dumb Stuff if they feel like it." I've heard it before. I strongly and vehemently disagree. Not every idea deserves to exist just because someone thought of it. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

I mean I don't even really care about Transformers, I just think it's insane that someone got paid to write a Transformers book and decided that Who These Robots F*ck In Their Free Time was somehow more interesting than the whole Autobots vs. Decepticons thing.

I mean, let's put it out there straight: If you were a kid watching Transformers, and you even thought out loud, "I wonder who Optimus Prime would have sex with?", I promise you - I PROMISE YOU - then you were gonna be sitting all alone at the lunch table, because you were forevermore gonna be "The weird kid who thinks about Transformers and their sexual habits." And even as an adult, people are gonna immediately make excuses to stop hanging out with you ever again if you say sh*t like that out loud. "D'you think Optimus Prime would be straight, or gay?" "Ummm... neither? Because Optimus Prime is a robot ya f*cking weirdo." That's how that conversation goes in Real Life, or anywhere that isn't Tumblr.

NORMAL people don't give a sh*t who Optimus Prime has sex with; if they care about him at all they just want him to beat up Megatron. And yes, there is such a thing as "Normal People", or at least there USED to be and still ought to be.

I mean, it's whatever. I'm just saying this stuff isn't stuff that anyone EVER thought was important until gay and trans people collectively decided that everything everywhere needed to be "gay and trans-inclusive". Even a comic book about robots that don't have gender or sex organs, apparently.

It's like I said, if you don't think it's crazy then you won't think it's crazy no matter how I explain it. MOST people, though? MOST people think it's f*cking insane that there's people who even think of things like that to begin with.

[Shark_Blade]

They really should just do monthly subscription like DC Universe Infinite & Marvel comics. I subscribe to DC and I can read all the comics without buying individual issues. Kinda like Netflix for comics.

[Coola Yagami]

I mean let's be honest. There is zero way for Optimus to **** Arcee, let alone anyone else. And they don't even reproduce sexually, aren't they built by some godly power or whatever in their universe? So what would be the point? I mean it works both ways, gay or straight. Optimus literally has no need to have sex with anyone, just like Arcee is incapable of getting hot and bothered down south.

[Andrew NDB]

Do Transformers have pleasure centers in their crotches? If so, why, since they don't reproduce sexually? If they don't, why would they be having "Sex" at all?

Seems an awful lot like it could only possibly be people just projecting their own weirdo fantasies onto established characters and universes. Around 2000 this was blissfully confined to the realm of fanfction, where you'd have all sorts even around this board having the Turtles banging every Mary Sue under the sun as well as each other in fanfics left and right.

Alternately, giving the Transformers a bunch of gender/alternative sexual stuff is a way to poke fun at how silly it is that Transformers have any sort of gender at all (and I mean... OK, it is a little silly when you think about it)... which is a way to then tug a thread at the basis of why there is gender norms at all at large on a societal level. You know, break it all down one pesky thing at a time.

Maybe a mix of both?

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Do Transformers have pleasure centers in their crotches? If so, why, since they don't reproduce sexually? If they don't, why would they be having "Sex" at all?

Seems an awful lot like it could only possible be people just projecting their own weirdo fantasies onto established characters and universes. Around 2000 this was blissfully confined to the realm of fanfction, where you'd have all sorts even around this board having the Turtles banging every Mary Sue under the sun as well as each other in fanfics left and right.

Alternately, giving the Transformers a bunch of gender/alternative sexual stuff is a way to poke fun at how silly it is that Transformers have any sort of gender at all (and I mean... OK, it is a little silly when you think about it)... which is a way to pull a thread at the basis of why there is gender at all at large.

Maybe a mix of both?

I think it's a mix between two things. The first being that all the fanfic-writing weirdos are now the ones actually working on comics, cartoons and whatever else. Case in point the one behind the She Ra reboot. She woulda trashed the whole thing if Netlfix said no to her little Adora/Catra yuri fanfic scene.

The other thing is social media gave everyone a voice, mostly to the stupid and to the weirdos. Back in the day, people at least had some semblance of self-awareness and knew talking about wanting to see Mikey bone Donnie or hell, all 4 turtles boning THEM at once would make them look weird so they'd keep that hidden in their little corners of Deviant Art and Fanfiction.net and the like. But nowadays anyone can blurt out stuff about Optimus Prime being gay on Twitter and if you say 'lol no' it suddenly becomes an argument of 'ARE YOU SAYING YOU HATE THE GAYS????' and people dogpile on you.

Social media gave a voice to literally every freak and weirdo out there, and they know how to abuse it.

Now that I think about it.... why was there such a backlash with Don and April in the 2012 show? 80% of the female fanbase has wanted to get ****ed by the Turtles at some point or another, was it self projection or jealousy that now April was taking their thunder? Was the real anger coming from the fact that Donnie couldn't **** them now because he had his sights on April?

[MattOnWheels]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, yeah... "It's all fake, so they can do Dumb Stuff if they feel like it." I've heard it before. I strongly and vehemently disagree. Not every idea deserves to exist just because someone thought of it. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

I mean I don't even really care about Transformers, I just think it's insane that someone got paid to write a Transformers book and decided that Who These Robots F*ck In Their Free Time was somehow more interesting than the whole Autobots vs. Decepticons thing.

I mean, let's put it out there straight: If you were a kid watching Transformers, and you even thought out loud, "I wonder who Optimus Prime would have sex with?", I promise you - I PROMISE YOU - then you were gonna be sitting all alone at the lunch table, because you were forevermore gonna be "The weird kid who thinks about Transformers and their sexual habits." And even as an adult, people are gonna immediately make excuses to stop hanging out with you ever again if you say sh*t like that out loud. "D'you think Optimus Prime would be straight, or gay?" "Ummm... neither? Because Optimus Prime is a robot ya f*cking weirdo." That's how that conversation goes in Real Life, or anywhere that isn't Tumblr.

NORMAL people don't give a sh*t who Optimus Prime has sex with; if they care about him at all they just want him to beat up Megatron. And yes, there is such a thing as "Normal People", or at least there USED to be and still ought to be.

I mean, it's whatever. I'm just saying this stuff isn't stuff that anyone EVER thought was important until gay and trans people collectively decided that everything everywhere needed to be "gay and trans-inclusive". Even a comic book about robots that don't have gender or sex organs, apparently.

It's like I said, if you don't think it's crazy then you won't think it's crazy no matter how I explain it. MOST people, though? MOST people think it's f*cking insane that there's people who even think of things like that to begin with.

Don't start splitting hairs about what a "Normal" person should think, please. We're not dealing with anything thats going to ruin humanity. This isn't about the serious stuff you think it is. At least not te way I was talking about it. Let's take a step back here.

[MattOnWheels]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I think it's a mix between two things. The first being that all the fanfic-writing weirdos are now the ones actually working on comics, cartoons and whatever else. Case in point the one behind the She Ra reboot. She woulda trashed the whole thing if Netlfix said no to her little Adora/Catra yuri fanfic scene.

The other thing is social media gave everyone a voice, mostly to the stupid and to the weirdos. Back in the day, people at least had some semblance of self-awareness and knew talking about wanting to see Mikey bone Donnie or hell, all 4 turtles boning THEM at once would make them look weird so they'd keep that hidden in their little corners of Deviant Art and Fanfiction.net and the like. But nowadays anyone can blurt out stuff about Optimus Prime being gay on Twitter and if you say 'lol no' it suddenly becomes an argument of 'ARE YOU SAYING YOU HATE THE GAYS????' and people dogpile on you.

Social media gave a voice to literally every freak and weirdo out there, and they know how to abuse it.

Now that I think about it.... why was there such a backlash with Don and April in the 2012 show? 80% of the female fanbase has wanted to get ****ed by the Turtles at some point or another, was it self projection or jealousy that now April was taking their thunder? Was the real anger coming from the fact that Donnie couldn't **** them now because he had his sights on April?

We're all weird. The fact of the matter is before social media it was just easier to be blind to the nature of people that thought and acted differently than us. Not everyone is a chris chan, and personally, Im glad fan fic writers can get jobs now. **** social barriers.

I mean, if the world just stayed the same, AEW wouldn't even exist because in the eyes of "Normal" wrestlers, "THEY'RE ALL TOO SKINNY, BROTHER"

At the end of the day, you don't have to agree with everything but you don't have to be afraid of it either. I know some here are probably too old and set in their ways to see that, but nothing's really out to get you. We're all the same, and I say that to people who are opposed to the opinions expressed here as well. It's like I told Leo, it's not that deep.

Edit: As far as Donnie and April, I think it was just people being sticks in the mud. Most people if they had a legit beef with it sited that it just seemed Donnie was being too much of a Simp after a point. Me? Nah fam. Go get her, Don! Be happy!

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Roboporn? Furries porn ain't enough for you now you want robots bumping uglies? Get help. D@mn. Robots don't have emotions. And there is more to life than fvcking.

Okay, let me be clear here: Porn isn't what I'm getting at. Im saying that if someone wants to write something, let them. It doesn't matter if a robot is gay. What matters is if it's written well. There have been plenty of gay characters written very well in recent years. Also? There was no need for the vitriol.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by MattOnWheels

We're all weird. The fact of the matter is before social media it was just easier to be blind to the nature of people that thought and acted differently than us. Not everyone is a chris chab, and personally, Im glad fan fic writers can get jobs now. **** social barriers.

I mean, if the world just stayed the same, AEW wouldn't even exist because in the eyes of "Normal" wrestlers, "THEY'RE ALL TOO SKINNY, BROTHER"

At the end of the day, you don't have to agree with everything but you don't have to be afraid of it either. I know some here are probably too old and set in their ways to see that, but nothing's really out to get you. We're all the same, and I say that to people who are opposed to the opinions expressed here as well. It's like I told Leo, it's not that deep.

I mean, it is kinda deep because it's starting to become more and more ingrained into our culture. Entertainment is still a big part of what helps form culture. And you can't say 'just don't watch it' because nowadays this kinda **** is everywhere.

Again, look at the She Ra girl. Taking an established character and making her (and Catra) gay, just because, as well as crapping all over the original series and acting as if her version was better.

Then there's original crap like High Guardian Spice. Horrible unwatchable show. Without hiding behind the name of some pre-established brand, the show's faults shine that much brighter.

It just shows that most (hopefully not all) of these weirdos don't know how to make their original shows, just grab pre-established stuff and **** it up, and when they try to make original stuff, it's horrible. They should just go back to fanfiction.net.


As for AEW, a huge part of its success is due to WWE getting progressively worse to the point its unwatchable, as wrestling fan an alternative was needed. It also gives most (not all) of the wrestlers that WWE was too stupid to know what to with and give them an actual shot.

Originally Posted by MattOnWheels

Okay, let me be clear here: Porn isn't what I'm getting at. Im saying that if someone wants to write something, let them. It doesn't matter if a robot is gay. What matters is if it's written well. There have been plenty of gay characters written very well in recent years. Also? There was no need for the vitriol.

And they can. With their own original characters. Optimus Prime isn't gay. But if they create a series of.... idk.... alien warrior dolphins and Dolph-Dude is gay, who are we to disagree? He's a completely original character and they have full reign of what they want it to be. Just make sure the actual story is good as well. Don't make it High Guardian Spice. Make it..... actually good.

[ChosenOne]

Gay Transformers... What a world.

[MattOnWheels]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I mean, it is kinda deep because it's starting to become more and more ingrained into our culture. Entertainment is still a big part of what helps form culture. And you can't say 'just don't watch it' because nowadays this kinda **** is everywhere.

Again, look at the She Ra girl. Taking an established character and making her (and Catra) gay, just because, as well as crapping all over the original series and acting as if her version was better.

Then there's original crap like High Guardian Spice. Horrible unwatchable show. Without hiding behind the name of some pre-established brand, the show's faults shine that much brighter.

It just shows that most (hopefully not all) of these weirdos don't know how to make their original shows, just grab pre-established stuff and **** it up, and when they try to make original stuff, it's horrible. They should just go back to fanfiction.net.


As for AEW, a huge part of its success is due to WWE getting progressively worse to the point its unwatchable, as wrestling fan an alternative was needed. It also gives most (not all) of the wrestlers that WWE was too stupid to know what to with and give them an actual shot.



And they can. With their own original characters. Optimus Prime isn't gay. But if they create a series of.... idk.... alien warrior dolphins and Dolph-Dude is gay, who are we to disagree? He's a completely original character and they have full reign of what they want it to be. Just make sure the actual story is good as well. Don't make it High Guardian Spice. Make it..... actually good.

Basically, your argument is a common one but its really not as simple as "Just make a new character, bro!" all the time, and look: Im as against capitalism taking advantage of marginalized groups as any, and thats a WHOLE OTHER debate. but I'll tell you this and I mean it with sincerity: I'd feel a lot better about an Arc in which Batman was crippled and had to learn to walk again (Done right, with attention called to the need for able-ism to be fought), than a brand new comic about Joe nobody who lives his life in a wheelchair. That helps what I go through and the ignorance i face a lot more. No one gave a **** about disability struggle when Batgirl was paralyzed. They just made her a different kind of super heroine. It did sweet **** all for those of us that actually NEED that positive role model who deals with handicap in a realistic way. Batman wasn't used to tell that story. He just got better when Bane broke his back. He didn't have to deal with anything. He just Batman'd his way out of it....okay, but am i mad about it? not really. Im just trying to say that its both the writing AND the ability to draw people in by placing the issue on the max number of eyes that matters. A new character isn't automatically the right sollution.

Now, as for AEW...I hear you. but their success ALSO has everything to do with giving conventional wrestling norms a swift kick in the balls, and beyond all that, lets not act like this is an industry that didn't NEED social justice with it's history of blatant racism (Yes, I said racism. Im not using the term lightly. You should know plenty of examples) Sexism, Able-ism, Rape culture and size prejudice in the locker room. **** wrestling's "Old school' ways so hard.

Oh, but don't misunderstand: **** what remains of it in the modern day, too. **** Marty Scuril, **** Saudi Arabia, **** Darby Allen if he hasn't changed, **** Sammi for saying what he said if he hasn't changed, and ****, and i mean DOUBLE **** Mike Quackenbush, Velveteen Dream, Vince Russo and Jim Cornette. Assholes, the lot of em. I'm sure there are more....oh, Flair can eat **** too.

If there's one good thing Social media has done, it's exposing actual evil people.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by MattOnWheels

Basically, your argument is a common one but its really not as simple as "Just make a new character, bro!" all the time, and look: Im as against capitalism taking advantage of marginalized groups as any, and thats a WHOLE OTHER debate. but I'll tell you this and I mean it with sincerity: I'd feel a lot better about an Arc in which Batman was crippled and had to learn to walk again, than a brand nre comic about Joe nobody who lives his llfe in a wheelchair. That helps what I go through and the ignorance i face a lot more. No one gave a **** about disability struggle when Batgirl was paralyzed. They just made her a different kind of super heroine. It did sweet **** all for those of us that actually NEED that positive role model who deals with handicap in a realistic way. Batman wasn't used to tell that story. He just got better when Bane broke his back. He didn't have to deal with anything. He just Batman'd his way out of it....okay, but am i mad about it? not really. Im just trying to say that its both the writing AND the ability to draw people in by placing the issue on the max number of eyes that matters. A new character isn't automatically the right sollution.

Now, as for AEW...I hear you. but their success ALSO has everything to do with giving conventional wrestling norms a swift kick in the balls, and lets not act like this is an industry that didn't deserve it with it's blatant racism (Yes, I said racism. Im noy using the term lightly. You should know plenty of examples) Sexism, Able-ism and size prejudice. **** wrestling's "Old school' ways so hard.

Oh, but don't missunderstand: **** what remains of it in the modern day, too. **** Marty Scuril, **** Saudi Arabia, **** Darby Allen if he hasn't changed, **** Sammi for saying what he said if he hasn't changed, and ****, and i mean DOUBLE **** Mike Quackenbush, Velveteen Dream, Vince Russo and Jim Cornette. Assholes, the lot of em. I'm sure there are more....oh, Flair can eat **** too.

If there's one good thing Social media has done, it's exposing actual evil people.

It's more than 'just make a new character, bro', it's 'make a GOOD new character, bro'.

I mean Spawn was a relatively new character in the grand scheme of things. Kick-Ass was a new character. Invincible is a super-new character. Anime/manga create new characters and entire worlds every other month, the current new one being Jujutsu Kaisen. I mean, we are literally on a forum based on unique new characters Eastman and Laird created decades ago.

It's not that hard, or maybe it's hard for the former fanfic writer weirdos, but it can be done. They just gotta actually... you know... TRY.

If they can't create new characters and make you care about them, they might as well hang it up. They can't hide behind pre-established characters forever.

[MattOnWheels]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

It's more than 'just make a new character, bro', it's 'make a GOOD new character, bro'.

I mean Spawn was a relatively new character in the grand scheme of things. Kick-Ass was a new character. Invincible is a super-new character. Anime/manga create new characters and entire worlds every other month, the current new one being Jujutsu Kaisen. I mean, we are literally on a forum based on unique new characters Eastman and Laird created decades ago.

It's not that hard, or maybe it's hard for the former fanfic writer weirdos, but it can be done. They just gotta actually... you know... TRY.

If they can't create new characters and make you care about them, they might as well hang it up. They can't hide behind pre-established characters forever.

i hear what you're saying, but again? it means more coming from a well established character because that's going to get conversation going more than a new character, and yes, we do need original characters, but so often the only reason we even have this controversy is because people go "NOOOOOOOO!!! YOU CANT MAKE A GAY/BLACK/TRANS/FEMALE VERSION OF THIS CHARACTER! HOW WILL I EVER GO ON WHEN I ONLY HAVE A BAJILLION OTHER PIECES OF MEDIA WITH THEM AS A STRAIGHT MALE???"

No one is forcing you to buy it, and if you're so confident it's failing, you won't mind them trying it. Honestly, "Make a new character" is usually just a thinly veiled way of saying "Hide it somewhere where i'm less likely to see it" for a lot of people. (Not you per se)

Now, let me remind you what i said: I get the issue of oversaturation, and hollywood and the rest of the Bourgeoisie are guilty of pandering to demographics and i know thats what you're talking about, but you're calling actual fans--not the elite, just people who think differently than you, who write stories you don't want to read weirdo's, and I don't think thats the right thing to do in such a sweeping manner. There is plenty of good fan fiction out there, even if some writers write things that don't appeal to you.

Either way, I hope that we can at least say our dialog has been non combative and I hope I at least provided food for thought. even if you may not agree with me. Im sorry if I got too heated at any point. Some of these issues like AEW and the corruption of the industry are pretty personal to me as someone who has tried breaking into the biz and got some pretty ****ed up results from people. I hope you can understand that I'm not mad at you or any of your views expressed here thus far.